Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

[DaKahuna]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

I do imagine a bunch of new people running around con taking pictures of everything they see, and then turning around the corner to see Priest:
"OMG! It is Priest! Run for your lives before he eats us!"
(Poof of dust from nowhere, and tourists are now running away.)

Or better yet - all running toward Priest shouting "bunnies for Priest, bunnies for Priest"

[astcell]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

I deleted my reply because I was not trying to put the spotlight on her, I was just acknowledging the source. She had stated that Highwiz would be a good topic leader.

I know she does not want to be a forum organizer, in fact I doubt she wanted the animal to even get this big. The KISS principle applies as well. Maybe an "event" is too large.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

I thought Valkyrie was the one who noted the need first, and offered to have the meeting in a lightning fast method, like talks up to 5 minutes, even if it is in the parking lot. This animal soon grew into a regular talk then got whittled back to par.

Valkyrie has said that Highwiz may be best for this, and maybe so, but her original intention is the seed that started this topic. She has a good idea, let's not let it get away from us and become a burden that helps no one.

We can have multiple leaders/organizers for events. If you would like to, you can per her name in for review and mod comment like HighWiz's name was tossed in by Chris; for her, we'd only need 24 hours to decide too, as she is fairly well established as someone that can be trusted to not cause problems on the forums.

Many people have suggested this idea in the past, and it has never really taken off or gone anywhere.There were ideas from 2 years ago, suggesting that we have a "Newbie" or "Sandbox" area on the forums for people to do newbie things, and learn about Defcon. One or two years ago, someone suggested that we have a wiki that helps educate people about Defcon, and what there is to see. There have been many more ideas than this posted before, and the idea of an orientation at Defcon is at least 5 years old, though I don't remember who suggested it then, either.

Don't get me wrong. A Good idea is fabulous! Without a good idea, building and makers don't have much in the way of direction or focus. However, unless someone actually takes point, a good idea remains just what it is -- only an idea.

Back to your topic:
So, Valkyrie was the whip that started this threaded discussion? I have no problem with her being a forum leader/organizer, and I doubt other mods would have any problems with her. She would be a good person to lead/organize any of the contests/events. You should check with all the parties involved and them toss her name into the hat for the mod review process; you are, after all, a mod, and you can do that. :-)

[TheCotMan]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

i see your point Cot. I guess the days where we are primarily 'tourist' free are long gone. Accepting that reality, I concede your point.

I'm not supposed to win. What is this feeling? Joy? Yuck! I don't like it! Make it stop! Make it stop! ;-)

Now really, after what you posted, you think HW should run this? hehe talk about baptism by fire for the n00bs-

This is a point of interest. If you were a newly born sheep, would you rather be schooled by another sheep, or by a (possibly) reformed wolf?

Highwiz is the one that took a serious look at this and moved forward to organize it. DT is the one that approved it, and none of the mods disagreed with Chris' nomination of HighWiz as a Forum Leader/Organizer for the event he is organizing with the help of other people.

I do imagine a bunch of new people running around con taking pictures of everything they see, and then turning around the corner to see Priest:
"OMG! It is Priest! Run for your lives before he eats us!"
(Poof of dust from nowhere, and tourists are now running away.)

Reminder: The website for this is: http://defcon.stotan.org/defcon101/index.php

[LosT]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

i see your point Cot. I guess the days where we are primarily 'tourist' free are long gone. Accepting that reality, I concede your point.

Now really, after what you posted, you think HW should run this? hehe talk about baptism by fire for the n00bs-

1o57

[TheCotMan]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

All her plans and ideas are how to agitate HW.

Someone needs to harass that guy. He let my secret out!

I've never told anyone about DT being on the Downlow or about TheCotMans Bea Arthur Fetish... Oh Shit...

Now people will up their prices on ebay!

Back to topic:
HighWiz was added as a forum leader/organizer to this forum.

[Thorn]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

You are not contributing to this event in any way? No ideas, or planning?

All her plans and ideas are how to agitate HW.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

I am not an organizer. I am an agitater. If I can find one, ONE. That one is enough.

You are not contributing to this event in any way? No ideas, or planning?

[valkyrie]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

I'm not an organizer for this, but if something like this was offered the first time I went to Defcon, I might have attended it.

I did enjoy the choices I made when attending Defcon, and the proof of this is how I kept returning several years in a row. After about five different Defcon, spending most of my time in the presentations, I decided to be more social. I wasn't introduced to Defcon through any regulars, or well known people. I arrived with a person who enjoyed the novelty of a Hacker Convention. They weren't even a hacker-types, but instead something more like a tourist, there to gawk over the crazy hackers at Defcon and see what they would do next. My first was their second, and their last. They choose to opt for the craziness of Trekkie cons,, Comic Book cons, and Anime cons and be tourists at those places. My friend and I kept returning, but were always outsiders, and not really interested in the contest or events. A few times, over the years, my friend and I tried to start conversations with various people, but found there were too many people that were clueless, and we made the incorrect assumption that all of these drunk people were not skilled, and they were only there to get drunk. (Of course, we found we were only half right. ;-)

This lead to an understanding that Defcon wasn't to meet brilliant people that think differently. It was to hear presentations from various people with various ideas, and to meet up with people that knew each other online, through BBS, through other security conferences, or professional life. If you were attending Defcon to meet people for the first time to discuss ideas, you were too late*.

(*Though this is no longer true, and "back then" it wasn't 100% true, but common enough through our experiences to be a viable conclusion at the time. This became mostly true, because talking to Drunk people who are on vacation provide 2 barriers for discussion: drunkenness and their being on vacation from work, which is a topic you might be looking to bring up. ;-)

Now back to the topic of people looking to create a Defcon Orientation of sorts:
It isn't something that is being forced on people, and it is voluntary. Anyone interested in doing things are their own can still do that. This is totally run by volunteers, and new attendees will use it or they won't. From my point of view, the existence of such an event is not going to harm my Defcon experience, and for those that choose to attend it, it might expose them to what is available so they can have a more enjoyable time.

This event demonstrates there is still freedom at Defcon to start something new, and try to make Defcon better. We all have different opinions on what will make Defcon better (and I am still waiting for my solid gold jet pack that uses the disembodied souls of rejected orphans as a fuel source.) Be this a success or failure, it doesn't harm my Defcon experience, so why should I care about it being created or not?

Good luck to the event organizers. :-)

I am not an organizer. I am an agitater. If I can find one, ONE. That one is enough.

Regards,

Valkyrie
__________________________________________
sapere aude

[TheCotMan]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Has anyone considered that part of the joy, the fun, and the experience of Defcon is learning about a lot of this stuff the first few years you go?

I mean come on, we're hackers for heavens sake, let's not get too crazy here. We can't give away all of the mystery. Hell that's part of the appeal to a certain mindset- the mindset we are hoping to attract= maybe we'd have fewer asshats if we didn't do threads like this?

just thinking out loud.

I'm not an organizer for this, but if something like this was offered the first time I went to Defcon, I might have attended it.

I did enjoy the choices I made when attending Defcon, and the proof of this is how I kept returning several years in a row. After about five different Defcon, spending most of my time in the presentations, I decided to be more social. I wasn't introduced to Defcon through any regulars, or well known people. I arrived with a person who enjoyed the novelty of a Hacker Convention. They weren't even a hacker-types, but instead something more like a tourist, there to gawk over the crazy hackers at Defcon and see what they would do next. My first was their second, and their last. They choose to opt for the craziness of Trekkie cons,, Comic Book cons, and Anime cons and be tourists at those places. My friend and I kept returning, but were always outsiders, and not really interested in the contest or events. A few times, over the years, my friend and I tried to start conversations with various people, but found there were too many people that were clueless, and we made the incorrect assumption that all of these drunk people were not skilled, and they were only there to get drunk. (Of course, we found we were only half right. ;-)

This lead to an understanding that Defcon wasn't to meet brilliant people that think differently. It was to hear presentations from various people with various ideas, and to meet up with people that knew each other online, through BBS, through other security conferences, or professional life. If you were attending Defcon to meet people for the first time to discuss ideas, you were too late*.

(*Though this is no longer true, and "back then" it wasn't 100% true, but common enough through our experiences to be a viable conclusion at the time. This became mostly true, because talking to Drunk people who are on vacation provide 2 barriers for discussion: drunkenness and their being on vacation from work, which is a topic you might be looking to bring up. ;-)

Now back to the topic of people looking to create a Defcon Orientation of sorts:
It isn't something that is being forced on people, and it is voluntary. Anyone interested in doing things are their own can still do that. This is totally run by volunteers, and new attendees will use it or they won't. From my point of view, the existence of such an event is not going to harm my Defcon experience, and for those that choose to attend it, it might expose them to what is available so they can have a more enjoyable time.

This event demonstrates there is still freedom at Defcon to start something new, and try to make Defcon better. We all have different opinions on what will make Defcon better (and I am still waiting for my solid gold jet pack that uses the disembodied souls of rejected orphans as a fuel source.) Be this a success or failure, it doesn't harm my Defcon experience, so why should I care about it being created or not?

Good luck to the event organizers. :-)

[astcell]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

There is SO much to know and learn! We will give them the tools to explore, kind of like teaching a child how to walk, and now they can get into things faster. We won't hand them the store, but we will point them in the general direction and give them a push.

Many people do not even know some events take place because they cannot find the skybox access, they do not know they can go out back and see the dunking booth, or they are misinformed otherwise.

Getting your bearings was much easier at the AP. The groups were split into the three pools, and the hallways, and various party rooms which were plainly marked. It is quite difficult to simply walk through the Riv to find a party at random. The folks on any given floor may not even be Defcon attendees. Once in a tower and floor we are pretty much segregated from the rest of the gang.

[LosT]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Has anyone considered that part of the joy, the fun, and the experience of Defcon is learning about a lot of this stuff the first few years you go?

I mean come on, we're hackers for heavens sake, let's not get too crazy here. We can't give away all of the mystery. Hell that's part of the appeal to a certain mindset- the mindset we are hoping to attract= maybe we'd have fewer asshats if we didn't do threads like this?

just thinking out loud.

[erehwon]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Might I suggest a few more for consideration?

Visiting a desert city and proper hydration
The soap in your bathroom isn't just for washing your hands!

Gamey geeks was tolerable at say Defcon 5...

While we're at it, there is always a large group that attends Defcon just for the parties and are pretty oblivious to all forms of security, one fellow that would be nice to see is Bob Arno (warning, loud website) who is probably the best expert on pick-pockets.

[Dallas]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

For consideration..

Short History of Defcon and founders
Past Locations, why it moved
Overview of traditions and events (TBBQ, CTF, Shoot, meetup, poolcon..)
What are the diff badges
What is a Goon and why should you be concerned.
Who is this Priest and what are bunnies?
Who is Flea, Noid, others...
What is diff between official and unofficial events..
Overview of groups and organizations
Overview of parties or meetups by other groups and organizations
Why should you fear a magic marker
Being respectful, avoid arrogance, participate..
Have fun..

I'm new. Orientate me.

[LosT]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

I'm new. Orientate me.