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  • Intro to Hacking - Discussions

    How bout 101 level talks? Tabling the "Social introduction" to DefCon for a moment, and thinking more about Tech based talks to give "New Hackers" or "Would be Hackers" a primer or jumping off point. What kind of things would be good to cover?

    I don't know about format, whether quick talks or longer discussions would be better, so it's something to be discussed. But throwing out ideas for both types is never a bad thing, they can be shrunken down/expanded depending on what's ultimately decided.

    For an example, maybe Thorn and Renderman doing a primer/something on wireless. Valkyrie talking about Crypto in an intro to code breaking or something along those lines?

    I'm sure some of this information is covered in the villages or can be found there. However, we/you people can be intimidating to a "Newbie" even if you're not trying to be. So a Newbie Track dealing specifically with those topics can be helpful in this format.

    Let me know what you all think, whether that's the direction we want to go or rip down my ideas, it's all good...
    And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him.

  • #2
    Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

    Originally posted by HighWiz View Post
    How bout 101 level talks? Tabling the "Social introduction" to DefCon for a moment, and thinking more about Tech based talks to give "New Hackers" or "Would be Hackers" a primer or jumping off point. What kind of things would be good to cover?

    I don't know about format, whether quick talks or longer discussions would be better, so it's something to be discussed. But throwing out ideas for both types is never a bad thing, they can be shrunken down/expanded depending on what's ultimately decided.

    For an example, maybe Thorn and Renderman doing a primer/something on wireless. Valkyrie talking about Crypto in an intro to code breaking or something along those lines?

    I'm sure some of this information is covered in the villages or can be found there. However, we/you people can be intimidating to a "Newbie" even if you're not trying to be. So a Newbie Track dealing specifically with those topics can be helpful in this format.

    Let me know what you all think, whether that's the direction we want to go or rip down my ideas, it's all good...
    I kinda like that idea. Sort of firehose primer on various topics for those who want to know a little about alot.

    Might also help those of us who are deep into one field, but friggin clueless in others get a handle on other topics.

    I could see it being about 2 hours with 6-8 presenters on a variety of topics giving a 'what the hell is this all about' talk (again, going back to the university orientation example, this would be the pre-admittance 'we want you to join our department' type of talk to try and get some of the newbies into our fields)

    I don't know about you guys but I do notice that we tend to cluster around our various fields more than we should. I'm guilty of it, though not for lack of opportunity to try new things though. I think the goal should be to present all the possibilities that Defcon offers to help people become real polymats.

    Thoughts?
    Never drink anything larger than your head!





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    • #3
      Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

      Originally posted by HighWiz View Post
      How bout 101 level talks? Tabling the "Social introduction" to DefCon for a moment, and thinking more about Tech based talks to give "New Hackers" or "Would be Hackers" a primer or jumping off point. What kind of things would be good to cover?

      I don't know about format, whether quick talks or longer discussions would be better, so it's something to be discussed. But throwing out ideas for both types is never a bad thing, they can be shrunken down/expanded depending on what's ultimately decided.

      For an example, maybe Thorn and Renderman doing a primer/something on wireless. Valkyrie talking about Crypto in an intro to code breaking or something along those lines?

      I'm sure some of this information is covered in the villages or can be found there. However, we/you people can be intimidating to a "Newbie" even if you're not trying to be. So a Newbie Track dealing specifically with those topics can be helpful in this format.

      Let me know what you all think, whether that's the direction we want to go or rip down my ideas, it's all good...
      Originally posted by renderman View Post
      I kinda like that idea. Sort of firehose primer on various topics for those who want to know a little about alot.

      Might also help those of us who are deep into one field, but friggin clueless in others get a handle on other topics.

      I could see it being about 2 hours with 6-8 presenters on a variety of topics giving a 'what the hell is this all about' talk (again, going back to the university orientation example, this would be the pre-admittance 'we want you to join our department' type of talk to try and get some of the newbies into our fields)

      I don't know about you guys but I do notice that we tend to cluster around our various fields more than we should. I'm guilty of it, though not for lack of opportunity to try new things though. I think the goal should be to present all the possibilities that Defcon offers to help people become real polymats.

      Thoughts?
      Primers could be fun.

      I'd suggest 4 per hour, at ~10 minutes each. That leaves a couple of minutes changeover time between each, and time for a stretch/bathroom break.
      Thorn
      "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

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      • #4
        Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

        i would bet that you'd get a lot of takers on an "Intro To Crypto" workshop. i know that there are so many standards out there that even i do not feel fully versed a lot of the time. what is considered outdated, what is not... which types of crypto are symettrical versus which use key pairs, why 128-bit SSL is not the same "strength" as 128-bit PGP, etc etc etc.

        I am fully alright with admitting that when i was hanging around Black Hat a couple years ago I sat in on Rodney's Crypto workshop and it was one of the best uses of my time... it really cleared up three or four things for me which i did not fully understand, as far as terminology or certain algorithms are concerned.

        You simply don't learn about crypto overall in one simple package. It's all either spend your life reading a mailing list or grab a 400+ page book from a library. I bet people would love to see a workshop where you go over all the basics so people know what all the algorithms mean, sorted into broad categories, then have a session where people make their own SSH tunnel into something and also setup GPG for their favorite email client.
        "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
        - Trent Reznor

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        • #5
          Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

          Originally posted by Deviant Ollam View Post
          i would bet that you'd get a lot of takers on an "Intro To Crypto" workshop. i know that there are so many standards out there that even i do not feel fully versed a lot of the time. what is considered outdated, what is not... which types of crypto are symettrical versus which use key pairs, why 128-bit SSL is not the same "strength" as 128-bit PGP, etc etc etc.

          I am fully alright with admitting that when i was hanging around Black Hat a couple years ago I sat in on Rodney's Crypto workshop and it was one of the best uses of my time... it really cleared up three or four things for me which i did not fully understand, as far as terminology or certain algorithms are concerned.

          You simply don't learn about crypto overall in one simple package. It's all either spend your life reading a mailing list or grab a 400+ page book from a library. I bet people would love to see a workshop where you go over all the basics so people know what all the algorithms mean, sorted into broad categories, then have a session where people make their own SSH tunnel into something and also setup GPG for their favorite email client.
          DO, it actually seems right to do an overview of things; kind of like dangling a carrot, so folks who are truly interested in a topic get a taste and want more of it. If you all wish to put me up in the Village this year, I would be more than willing to go more in-depth on the crypto topics, (including the Enigmas) and I am sure there those here more versed than I am on particulars of that topic. Perhaps they could decide to do some BoF's on crypto or just about anything geeky and hacky.

          Let's choose those topics that will give people a maximum overview and then provide them with more in-depth discussion, discovery, ranting, etc, if that floats their boat.

          good idea? bad idea?

          Regards,

          valkyrie
          __________________________________________________ __________________
          sapere aude

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

            Well I wouldn't have much to offer with regards presenting or helping out (aside from the fact that I live an ocean away), as a general "noob" in most ares, some of the topics I think fellow noobs would like a quick into or taste of would be;

            Everything Wireless
            Crypyo
            Programming (be it anything from C++ to Python, or even the basics of program languages and the essentials (batch processes, syntaxes, etc))
            Hardware hacking (I think if Kingpin even had 10 minutes to spare, newbies would go just to see him)
            Networks (TCP/IP)
            Hacking and the Law (maybe one of the guys from the EFF?)

            Don't shoot me down for this, I'm sure there's ALOT more could be done, but they're a few things I'm sure alot of newcomers to hacking would like to hear about before they decide on what they'll be paying special attention to during the main event.
            This is a horrible font

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

              Originally posted by artoir View Post
              Well I wouldn't have much to offer with regards presenting or helping out (aside from the fact that I live an ocean away), as a general "noob" in most ares, some of the topics I think fellow noobs would like a quick into or taste of would be;

              Everything Wireless
              Crypyo
              Programming (be it anything from C++ to Python, or even the basics of program languages and the essentials (batch processes, syntaxes, etc))
              Hardware hacking (I think if Kingpin even had 10 minutes to spare, newbies would go just to see him)
              Networks (TCP/IP)
              Hacking and the Law (maybe one of the guys from the EFF?)

              Don't shoot me down for this, I'm sure there's ALOT more could be done, but they're a few things I'm sure alot of newcomers to hacking would like to hear about before they decide on what they'll be paying special attention to during the main event.
              Shoot you down? The powers that be bless you a hundred times over! As you are a self-described noob, the intent of this speed forum is supposed to be all about giving new folks a base to work from so I for one welcome your suggestions. Thank you. It sounds as if we are pretty much spot on with topics.


              Regards,

              valkyrie
              __________________________________________________ ____________________
              sapere aude

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

                I've tried to combine all of the ideas for tracks in this thread for easier viewing and discussion.

                http://defcon.stotan.org/brainwash/ideas.php
                And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

                  Seems like a good list, may I ask why Hacking and the Law is crossed though?

                  Also has anyone decided the length of this track?

                  I was under the impression the idea was a speed presentation before the main event starts, like even an hour or two early while the main show is warming up? That way it wouldn't get in the way of everyone else, noobs or even pros who are visiting the con for the first time get a taste of what's to come, and what they wish to keep an eye out for?
                  This is a horrible font

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

                    Originally posted by artoir View Post
                    Seems like a good list, may I ask why Hacking and the Law is crossed though?

                    Also has anyone decided the length of this track?

                    I was under the impression the idea was a speed presentation before the main event starts, like even an hour or two early while the main show is warming up? That way it wouldn't get in the way of everyone else, noobs or even pros who are visiting the con for the first time get a taste of what's to come, and what they wish to keep an eye out for?
                    Yes you are free to ask, but it doesn't mean I'm going to give you an answer.
                    And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

                      How cryptic
                      This is a horrible font

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                      • #12
                        Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

                        I'll be happy to cover the Hacking and the Law portion.
                        jur1st, esq.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Intro to Hacking - Discussions

                          If I may suggest, could this possibly be a yearly thing? I will not be able to attend Defcon 17 due to deployment, but I will be returning in time to go to Defcon 18 and would like to get as much as possible out of it, including the basics if possible. Thanks.
                          Saving the world one computer at a time...

                          or possibly destroying, I haven't figured that out yet.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Intro to Hacking - Discussions

                            Disregard this I (insert popular bash.org quote here.)
                            Last edited by g3k_; April 2, 2009, 19:33.
                            "As Arthur C Clarke puts it, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Here is my corollary: "Any sufficiently technical expert is indistinguishable from a witch"."

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                            • #15
                              Re: Intro to Hacking - Discussions

                              Originally posted by g3k_ View Post
                              I have no idea whats going on, but I think its canceled for this year:
                              https://forum.defcon.org/showpost.ph...98&postcount=2

                              Apparently it comes up every year and fails every year. Maybe next year is the year.
                              This is a point of confusion. There were two different events:
                              Intro to Defcon
                              Intro the Hacking.

                              The item you link to is the event "Intro to Hackin" which has no leaders/organizer and has been cancelled.
                              The thread where this reply was posted "Defcon 101: A lurker's Guide to Defcon" (which was Intro to Defcon) is still on, and still being actively supported.

                              The threads for Intro To Hacking as an event was relocated to New Ideas in case someone else decides to lead that.

                              I will be purging the contents of that close forum that contains the non-functional "Intro To Hacking".

                              Re-stating, the Intro to Defcon called. "DefCon 101: A Lurkers Guide to DefCon," has had no announcement of being canceled.

                              I thought I closed the "Intro to Hacking" but it looks like I just made it invisible but available. Let me fix that, which will break the link you have, but avoid more confusion on this.

                              Sorry to the organizer of this event which is still on, as far as I know. It was my mistake in failing to fully partition the unsupported event away.

                              Maybe the leaders/organizers would like me to move this thread to New Ideas so this topic isn't a point of conflusion. (?) Let me know.
                              Any other threads should be dumped in New ideas to avoid confusion in this space?
                              Last edited by TheCotMan; April 2, 2009, 19:39.

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