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  • Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

    Hi all,

    We would like to suggest a new event to run during defcon -- a debate tournament!

    What is British Parliamentary Debate?
    British Parliamentary Debate is a style of debating based on the how the British conduct business at their Parliament. Two teams consisting of two members each, face off against each other trying to defend or attack a certain proposition. Then another two teams pick up where they left. This is done in an organized fashion as detailed below.

    Purpose:
    Lead a constructive debate and most importantly, have fun.

    Example propositions:
    This house will ban the use of firewalls
    This house will make hacking illegal
    This house will legalize mandatory full disclosure
    This house believes the source of evil in this world is Windows
    This house will support giving guns to hackers
    This house believes script kiddies should be shot
    Hacking saves lives
    Ninjas are better than Pirates
    Family guy is better than The Simpsons
    Kids who play video games kill people
    Star Trek is better than Star Wars
    Pluto is a planet
    Beer should be free
    Coke is better than Pepsi
    RFID will put the economy in recession

    Parliamentary debate has become increasingly popular in recent years. It differs from the regular college Policy Debate in that the participants have only 15 minutes prep time after learning of what motion (resolution) they are going to work with. It requires thinking on your feet and agile minds.

    How it works:
    The government team proposes and supports the motion, while the opposition team tries to tear it down and/or offer alternatives.

    There are two government teams, and two opposition teams.

    Each participant will have the stage for 7 minutes, in which time they need to either support or tear down the proposition, then switch with a participant from the other team.

    Each speech is constructed of short rebuttal time (for the previous speaker) and introduction of new positive arguments to help their own case.

    Opposing team can make Points of Information in which they have 15 seconds to speak during a speech not their own. The speaker can choose whether or not to accept them.

    Who can participate:
    Anyone who comes up with a team (2 people) and is familiar with the basics of parliamentary debate. We may cap the number of teams at 8.
    You can read about it online and _special_training_material_ will become available in the coming months.

    Rules:
    1. Be professional.
    2. Follow parliamentary procedure.
    3. No swearing.
    4. Have fun!
    5. [Optional] Defcon rule addition: drink alcohol.
    (judging team my enforce drinking when buzzwords, empty slogans and logical fallacies are used).

    Example schedule:
    Day 1 - 5:00PM Round 1
    Day 1 - 6:00PM Round 2
    Day 2 - 5:00PM Semi-finals
    Day 3 - 12:00PM Finals

    Organizers:
    Gadi Evron
    Dan Kaminsky
    And... (roll drums)... Steve Llano

    Steve Llano researches the relationships between rhetoric, poetry and argument. He studies argumentation theory, debate, rhetorical criticism, contemporary rhetorical theory, pedagogy of debate and argumentation, classical rhetorical theory, and argumentation and eastern thought.

    Steve also directs the St. John's Debate Society, which competes nationally and internationally in British Parliamentary debating.

    ... Well, that's it.

    We hope you like our proposal, and let the debating commence! :)

    Gadi Evron, Dan Kaminsky, Steve Llano.
    ge@linuxbox.org

  • #2
    Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

    Originally posted by gadi View Post
    Hi all,


    Rules:
    1. Be professional.
    2. Follow parliamentary procedure.

    3. No swearing.
    [Emphasis mine]

    You're fucking kidding me, right? We kind of pussies are against swearing?
    And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

      Originally posted by HighWiz View Post
      [Emphasis mine]

      You're fucking kidding me, right? We kind of pussies are against swearing?
      When debating, every second matters.

      Thanks for bringing this to our attention. While we may need to rethink this due to defcon culture (how could I miss that?!) our thinking is that we won't stop people from swearing, but if they can't articulate their swearing, along with their argument, in a smarter non-overt fashion, points will be dropped.

      Driveling will totally ruin the Pirates vs. Ninjas debate, dude. :->

      Gadi.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

        Originally posted by gadi View Post

        Driveling will totally ruin the Pirates vs. Ninjas debate, dude. :->

        Gadi.
        I suppose you are guilty of having an inarticulate nature since dude is hair from a male elephants ass?
        And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

          I suppose we need to give GOBBLES something to screw up at the convention.

          I return whatever i wish . Its called FREEDOWM OF RANDOMNESS IN A HECK . CLUSTERED DEFEATED CORn FORUM . Welcome to me

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

            Originally posted by noid View Post
            I suppose we need to give GOBBLES something to screw up at the convention.
            It would be entertaining to watch for sure. Not sure how long it will hold peoples attention?
            PGP key: dtangent@defcon.org valid 2020 Jan 15, to 2024 Jan 01 Fingerprint: BC5B CD9A C609 1B6B CD81 9636 D7C6 E96C FE66 156A

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

              Originally posted by Dark Tangent View Post
              It would be entertaining to watch for sure. Not sure how long it will hold peoples attention?
              About as long as the average person settles on CSPAN while channel surfing.

              Although, it is an interesting idea.
              A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

                Best idea ever! Count me in.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

                  Originally posted by Dark Tangent View Post
                  It would be entertaining to watch for sure. Not sure how long it will hold peoples attention?
                  My guess..about 3 minutes..

                  I bet this sounded like a great idea when they came up with it at the bar..

                  I return whatever i wish . Its called FREEDOWM OF RANDOMNESS IN A HECK . CLUSTERED DEFEATED CORn FORUM . Welcome to me

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

                    If you have good speakers, then parli can be very entertaining - but the caveat is, you need good speakers.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

                      Originally posted by noid View Post
                      My guess..about 3 minutes..

                      I bet this sounded like a great idea when they came up with it at the bar..
                      Don't we already have this? I thought that's what Hacker Jeopardy was for?

                      (invisible smiley for the humor impaired)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

                        Are guns allowed? Might be a good way to win the debate, actually can we just step 20 paces and shoot?

                        Originally posted by shrdlu View Post
                        Don't we already have this? I thought that's what Hacker Jeopardy was for?

                        (invisible smiley for the humor impaired)
                        Last edited by Dallas; March 26, 2009, 07:16.
                        +++ Dallas +++

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

                          Thanks everyone for your replies, and interest.

                          A debate is not just a long boring diatribe, but a contest, an engagement between teams. Each speaker only has a short time to make his or her case before the other side attacks it.

                          It's interesting, and I believe that with alcohol and fun, it will fit right in with the defcon crowd--especially as the crowd will be the debaters.

                          As an unexpected consequence, perhaps some of our people won't just have fun but also learn a bit about how to build arguments and make sense with people, rather than just compilers.

                          I believe it's worth a shot, and will be fun.

                          So, how do we proceed with the process?

                          Thanks,

                          Gadi.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

                            Originally posted by gadi View Post
                            So, how do we proceed with the process?
                            Just like any other contest or event.

                            Do you plan on having this happen at Defcon? If you want to have this on the contest floor, then you need to get approval From Russ, and request the resources you might need. Skybox? They might be filled up, or might not. That might require approval from Grifter unless someone else is doing that this year.

                            If you plan to have the event take place away from Defcon, you will still need approval from DT as either an official or unofficial event.

                            Once you have approval for space at Defcon, or as an official or unofficial event, then a new forum can be added for the contest/event. Forums are not created unless your contests/event is approved in some way by one of those 3 people mentioned above.

                            Remember: Just because you get an OK from DT doesn't mean you have space on the contest floor, or a SkyBox! Each domain is controlled by a different person, and they may not have space. It is up to you t follow each thread to completion to get all of the resources you need.

                            Also, once you have a forum for this contest/event, then you will also need to provide information to Neil (or someone else) if you want your contest/event to be in the program.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Suggesting a new defcon event: Hackers Parliamentary Debate or HPD

                              Originally posted by gadi View Post
                              Thanks everyone for your replies, and interest.

                              A debate is not just a long boring diatribe, but a contest, an engagement between teams. Each speaker only has a short time to make his or her case before the other side attacks it.

                              It's interesting, and I believe that with alcohol and fun, it will fit right in with the defcon crowd--especially as the crowd will be the debaters.

                              As an unexpected consequence, perhaps some of our people won't just have fun but also learn a bit about how to build arguments and make sense with people, rather than just compilers.

                              I believe it's worth a shot, and will be fun.

                              So, how do we proceed with the process?

                              Thanks,

                              Gadi.
                              Heh. Outside of 'Jolly' I didnt see any interest here. Just a lot of mockery. Maybe you could put together an event that lets event organizers work on their perception.

                              I return whatever i wish . Its called FREEDOWM OF RANDOMNESS IN A HECK . CLUSTERED DEFEATED CORn FORUM . Welcome to me

                              Comment

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