Shoot Location Discussion (old)

[Deviant Ollam]

damn... is the DC Shoot becoming one of those cursed events that can't sustain year after year without some sort of major planning disruption?

after a little bit of back-and-forth with Desert Lake Gun Club (who was looking forward to seeing us again this summer) i suddenly was made aware that they will be closing in just a few weeks.

apparently the landowners are trying to force the property into bankruptcy in order to obtain some sort of financial benefit that is beyond my own understanding of financial law.

thus, we'll need to find a new place to go. this thread can serve as a discussion area for any suggestions, etc. that people have. i'd appreciate local advice, of course, from people with direct knowledge of the area.

i'm still in Honolulu for ShakaCon but will also be Googling and working on this. results to be posted here as they come.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

I've been tracking this for about 4 years now, and it is usually plagued with delay, upon delays, and the dates they post are never met, but:
url1

So far we are on schedule and are looking towards a “soft opening” in June 2009. We would like a gala grand opening ceremony and are beginning plans to select a date somewhere between August and October for the ceremony.

That is the last bulletin I have from their list. Though if I recall correctly, I found discussion about them as early as 2005, the earliest email from them that I have is from 2006.

URL2 primary page

On the shooting park master plan, the green areas highlight the Public Module which is now under construction and will be ready for operation in the summer of 2009. (Click here to view Master Plan [PDF of a map of their site, but not timeline, dates, or anything else -- this is just a "pretty picture" stored in a pdf])

I am not sure if you can count on them being open for service, or allow/support/permit use of full auomatic weapons by Defcon. (I am not a gun-guy, but I know that at firing ranges, they have different capacity for ammunition used at each range, and so I figure such a place might also have limits, and may not have some ranges set up for the all the weapons people might bring by Defcon this summer.)

Additionally, I would bet they would not provide weapon rentals on-site, which would slim down the count of many people that would look to attend.

When I visited their site 2 or 3 years ago with Boombox, we found a muddy field that had no development, but a few bulldozers sitting out on the gound.

The Gun Store is way too small for any group of people over, say, 8 or 9.

American Shooters is big enough to allow for maybe 25-30 people if you include both the rifle range and the primary range, but it isn't a relaxed atmosphere, where people can socialize much, and I don't know how they would work with anyone that would be in the group as Range Masters. Very clean store, and pleasant people. Sharing the use of a rental there is more expensive than The Gun Store, but individual rentals we found were cheaper.

Of course, both of these places doe not have the outside feel that I see in the pictures that come back from The Defcon Shoots of the past, and these places would likely feel more commercial.

Hope this is helpful.

Good luck!

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

Thanks for those links, Cot... i'll hopefully hear more details there as i research and get intel from locals.

I'm also trying to reach the folks at the Boulder City range, too. A nice non-profit group, they apparently are... dedicated just to helping the public shoot.

[sintax_error]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

BC looks like a nice enough range. Never been there myself, but just browsing their policies and rules, I saw a few more "at your own risk" and "due to ricochet danger" than I generally like to see at a range.

[noid]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

Thanks for those links, Cot... i'll hopefully hear more details there as i research and get intel from locals.

I'm also trying to reach the folks at the Boulder City range, too. A nice non-profit group, they apparently are... dedicated just to helping the public shoot.

We held the shoot there one year. Bunch of crochety old bastards. Didnt seem to keen on 'the young people'*. We ended up shooting that year in their 'free' public area that was basically a shooting pit. No .50 was allowed, no NFA, etc.


*young people being defined as anyone who wasn't old enough to have fought in Korea

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

so the Boulder Club got back to me with some new details... most of which noid covered, but with a few twists.

they are not provisioned for 50BMG, that is true. they claim it's due to the police folk in surrounding areas (objecting to the report? worried about lethality at super-long distances in the event of negligent discharge with a raised muzzle? that wasn't clear, but they say it's LEOs and not their berm which is the issue)

they do allow NFA weapons at the range, however. at least, they do for members. so, unless anyone wants to pay $125 for a membership that isn't officially on the menu. however, i think i'd like to respond to their latest conversation with the stipulation that our use of their facility would hinge on Class-III permission. if we pay an additional fee of some kind, etc... we are bringing a nice sized group and deserve a little accommodation, i feel.

the fact that we have NRA certified range safety officers and others who are experienced enough to police our own lines means that we wouldn't have to bother with range staff from the facility itself, at least according to the individual with whom i spoke.

they have a mixture of different distance pits... i thought that perhaps we could try to grab a pair next to one another. they have some 25 and 50 yard spots, then a 75 yard pit, then a handful of 100 yard pits. maybe we'd try to grab the 75 yard and then 100 yard next to one another.

there is no restriction on what can be fired at which spot. so we can set up close targets for pistol at short distances even on the longer ranges.

i'm upset about no 50 BMG... but (due to my own limited collection) it's not an absolute deal-breaker for me. the lack of ability to rent firearms there, including Class-III, means we're only shooting what people bring with them. and the inability to fire any NFA guns is almost a clincher for me.

If there were no other options that pop up, maybe we'd do the official shoot here and i'll personally take any interested parties (perhaps in a smaller group) to The Gun Store or American Shooters for rental of full-autos at another time.

we're trying to pull together the best event possible with these new conditions. we'll still surely do the shoot... just might be slightly cramped one way or another.

oh, one more bit of good news... it's very, very low cost. like on the order of $5 to $10 per person depending on how long we stay. granted, if i try to squeeze them on a Class-III permission fee there may be an additional $500 that we'll have to spread around between us, but if we have the number of people i'm hoping that means maybe an extra $20 to $25 per person. that's not great (and maybe, sadly, people will say it's not worth the extra hassle or cash) but it still beats the $200 fee folk shelled out last year at Desert Lake.

the other side of the coin is that it would be our own ranks bringing gear that people would shoot... not range rentals. i'm personally close to nearly all of the folk who have responded thus far and don't mind people responsibly firing my gear. i know that for sure i'll have the 10/22 and the AR-15 for long pinking. i will quite possibly also bring the new M1A (which i'll be picking up from the FFL as soon as i get home tomorrow), and i may or may not bring Gladys with me again. there will also be a special surprise appearance that i'm bringing for use in this year's marksmanship contest.

i'm eager to hear others' thoughts on all this.

[noid]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

Well, if I can't bring my AOW shotgun or my suppressed firearms, I won't even bother. Then again, I dunno if I can even go now that things kick off on Thursday.

[sintax_error]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

Being a resident of the People's Republic of California, NFA's aren't really an issue for me, personally, but I'd be perfectly willing to toss into the pot for the ability for the group to go class III. I'm personally still up in the air as to weather or not I want to bring my own gear, so the lack of rental hardware is a bit of a downside. We shall see.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

http://www.accessclarkcounty.com/dep...etin-v5i2.aspx

Latest bulletin from the Shooting Park...

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

Well, if I can't bring my AOW shotgun or my suppressed firearms, I won't even bother. Then again, I dunno if I can even go now that things kick off on Thursday.

you did far more than enough in seeing that the shoot was well-staffed and well-stocked both in its original form as well as during this latest phase. no one would ever blame you in the least if you were to attend other duties that morning. plus, as you point out quite clearly, new restrictive rules like that wouldn't make things as fair on a seasoned veteran like yourself... it wouldn't be what you're signing up for.

if you do not make it this year, i hope that you at least can join us again when things improve... which i believe they will over time. i still haven't lost all hope for NFA fun this time around, at least. maybe even we strike a deal with them... if their main objection is the distinctive "harassing" reports of full-auto fire and they just want to be what they feel is a "good neighbor" maybe we say that we'll keep things on single-shot but that items like suppressed arms would be allowed, etc.

Being a resident of the People's Republic of California, NFA's aren't really an issue for me, personally, but I'd be perfectly willing to toss into the pot for the ability for the group to go class III. I'm personally still up in the air as to weather or not I want to bring my own gear, so the lack of rental hardware is a bit of a downside. We shall see.

thanks for the input, i'll surely keep you informed along with all the others.

http://www.accessclarkcounty.com/dep...etin-v5i2.aspx Latest bulletin from the Shooting Park

that place seems to have some real promise. they do not appear to be likely opening until late august / early september so this year would be out, but perhaps that's a great spot to look toward in upcoming years.

[noid]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

you did far more than enough in seeing that the shoot was well-staffed and well-stocked both in its original form as well as during this latest phase. no one would ever blame you in the least if you were to attend other duties that morning. plus, as you point out quite clearly, new restrictive rules like that wouldn't make things as fair on a seasoned veteran like yourself... it wouldn't be what you're signing up for.

Yes, but this has little to do with me and my volunteering of my time. At the end of the day, I like shooting guns and look forward to shooting them whenever possible

if you do not make it this year, i hope that you at least can join us again when things improve... which i believe they will over time. i still haven't lost all hope for NFA fun this time around, at least. maybe even we strike a deal with them... if their main objection is the distinctive "harassing" reports of full-auto fire and they just want to be what they feel is a "good neighbor" maybe we say that we'll keep things on single-shot but that items like suppressed arms would be allowed, etc.

Then they should have no problems with silencers. Nothing is more neighborly than guns that don't make noise. In regards to NFA firearms I have yet to see anyone bring an actual MG out with them except for the year Gemtech came out. Most of the NFA stuff I've seen has been silencers and a few folks with registered SBRs.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

that place seems to have some real promise. they do not appear to be likely opening until late august / early september so this year would be out, but perhaps that's a great spot to look toward in upcoming years.

Notice how the previously mentioned "Soft opening date in June" is missing now?

This is the story that I've seen with this. There is statement or suggestion to an opening date, but later updates show it not to be true.

It is like Duke Nuke'em Forever, all over again!

:-)

[Gadsden]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

I have a friend that his a local there and is heavily involved with the local gun culture. I can ask him his take and see if it helps.

*UPDATE*
He suggested Boulder City as well.

[unixdude]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

Ok check out the Boulder City Gun Range...ok I'll have to check it out just called and I need to go to the RO shack and speak with the RO in person.

Have a report today or tomorrow. ...

BUT someone else might want to check out the Desert Sportmans range while I look into Boulder City. Desert Sportmans is also very nice...

North Las Vegas is opening a new facility north of town... I'll check on it for you as well...

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Ugh... So, we're gonna need a new location YET AGAIN

in an email i sent the other day to the person with whom i've had sporadic discussion thus far i included the following...

In fact, just about everything that we talked about sounded terrific. My only concern was a policy reported to me by an associate who had come to BRPC in the past. He reported that no NFA or Class-III hardware was allowed at your facility, and you also touched on this topic when we spoke.

I have talked to all of the key parties who wish to bring some of their firearms out to Nevada this summer, and perhaps we can reach a bit of a compromise. You had indicated that the reason for this rule was a desire to be a good neighbor and not upset the local police department. We are more than happy to leave all of our full automatics and such back home, but a few members of our party did hope that they could bring a short-barreled rifle or shotgun. These have no distinctive report and pose no ballistic risk beyond conventional firearms, and naturally all owners have full paperwork in good order.

Would we be able to bring items such as these along with our conventional rifles and pistols? If so, we think that your range might be a terrific option for us and we'd love to begin finalizing the details with you soon.

i think that may be our possible in. if they just don't want 50 BMG or full-auto but allow short-barreled and suppressed devices, we could be in great shape.