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From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv near bankruptcy

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  • #31
    Re: From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv near bankruptcy

    Originally posted by astcell View Post
    Can we use the defcon profits to buy our own hotel? How about the AP?
    The AP isn't big enough for DefCon.
    And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him.

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    • #32
      Re: From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv near bankruptcy

      Originally posted by hackajar View Post
      Does this mean contracts can be renegotiated for all future years?
      I believe this is the last year of the contract with the Riv. I know we've talked about this before and that sticks in my mind. However, there are only a couple Strip properties that are as big or bigger than the Riv when it comes to convention space. I believe MGM Grand and Mandalay Bay -- and maybe Caesar's Palace and City Center -- are about all the options.

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      • #33
        Re: From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv near bankruptcy

        Just got off the phone, they plan to continue to operate and all those who have reservations still have reservations.

        As for DefCon being canceled, it's been canceled every single year, why should this one be any different?

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        • #34
          Re: From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv IS bankrupt

          With the recent bankruptcy announcement, it makes one consider the future of the con... yet again. IIRC, doesn't this allow Riviera to renegotiate pre-existing contracts with anyone, including their customers? I'm no lawyer, gang, I'm looking for insightful commentary.

          Combine that with my speculation previously in this thread that DT might be at the end of an existing contract (which he may or may not have extended by now), and one wonders when and where DC19 (the year the joke might be "Defcon isn't cancelled") might be held.

          My reccomendation? At this point, I think we spend enough there we could own the Riv outright. DT might as well just make an offer on the property. I'd be willing to have my door fee doubled for such a noble endeavour. One stipulation to that, however...

          The pool fence has GOT to go. And I though *I* did tacky things at DefCon.
          I check my sanity with a wristwatch. What do you check yours with, a dipstick?

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          • #35
            Re: From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv near bankruptcy

            Originally posted by Club81 View Post
            However, there are only a couple Strip properties that are as big or bigger than the Riv when it comes to convention space. I believe MGM Grand and Mandalay Bay -- and maybe Caesar's Palace and City Center -- are about all the options.
            What??? While the Riv has a lot of space, there are certainly a number of hotels that have more space. The nearby Las Vegas Hilton has 200,000 square feet of convention space as opposed to the Riviera's 150,000. The Bellagio also has 200,000. The Rio has 160,000. Also, two of the ones you listed are smaller than the Riv. Caesar's Palace has 130,000 sq ft. Mandalay Bay only has 39,000 square feet of event space.

            The real issue is what other hotel besides the Riv is willing to put up with Defcon.
            Last edited by bascule; July 15, 2010, 09:23.
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            • #36
              Re: From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv near bankruptcy

              Originally posted by bascule View Post
              Mandalay Bay only has 39,000 square feet of event space.
              Mandalay Bay actually has way more than 39k. It has over 1M which can be broken up into smaller units. http://www.lvcva.com/meetings/meetin...y-capacity.jsp

              I was there a few weeks ago for Cisco Networkers. With about 16,000 attendees (not 100% sure, just what I heard while there), the place still felt pretty empty.

              MB was a good venue for a more conservative personality Cisco type of conference, but security seemed pretty strict on everything. Only 2 small smoking areas anywhere near the conference center. Just not a relaxed, easy to connect with others, feel to it. MGM conferences aren't as bad, since outside the doors of the conference area is a pretty nice place to talk.

              DC @ the Riv, you can head out any of the doors, near the conference rooms for a smoke and start up a good conversation, relax and sit. The lounge area is good location, not a far walk from any session.

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              • #37
                Re: From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv near bankruptcy

                Originally posted by Jarett View Post
                Mandalay Bay actually has way more than 39k. It has over 1M which can be broken up into smaller units.
                Mea culpa, but the point still stands that they probably aren't down to let Defcon use their space.
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                • #38
                  Re: From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv near bankruptcy

                  Originally posted by bascule View Post
                  What??? While the Riv has a lot of space, there are certainly a number of hotels that have more space. The nearby Las Vegas Hilton has 200,000 square feet of convention space as opposed to the Riviera's 150,000. The Bellagio also has 200,000. The Rio has 160,000. Also, two of the ones you listed are smaller than the Riv. Caesar's Palace has 130,000 sq ft. Mandalay Bay only has 39,000 square feet of event space.

                  The real issue is what other hotel besides the Riv is willing to put up with Defcon.
                  I was trying to think of Strip properties off the top of my heads. That's all. No harm; no foul. My point was there aren't that many that are as big as the Riv -- which is a bit surprising (to me anyway).

                  And while I think there was a time that properties may have not welcomed the con, with the downturn in convention traffic, I bet some would reconsider.

                  We'll know soon enough. It was about the week after DEFCON last year when DT announced dates/location for DEFCON 18. I see that Black Hat USA 2011 is already set for the first week in August.

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                  • #39
                    Riv has a new investor

                    Apparently the Riviera has a new lease on life...

                    http://www.vegaschatter.com/story/20..._Get_Stylized_
                    "Are my pants...threatening you?"

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                    • #40
                      Re: From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv near bankruptcy

                      Originally posted by Club81 View Post
                      We'll know soon enough. It was about the week after DEFCON last year when DT announced dates/location for DEFCON 18. I see that Black Hat USA 2011 is already set for the first week in August.
                      BlackHat is getting killed by DEFCON. They are down to only two days of speakers this year. I expect them to focus more on the high priced training in 2011. Most of the speakers are the same between conferences anyway.

                      Its really not the space that is an issue at the Riv, its the layout of the hallways. CP may have less space, but you can sure as hell get around it a whole lot easier with 4,000 peeps roaming the hallways.

                      If DEFCON could get a little bit better venue in 2011, it would rock. Even if we had to go to $200 in reg fees - I'd be there.
                      'jazz

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                      • #41
                        Re: From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv near bankruptcy

                        I loved the openness of the Alexis Park. You can see dozens of events from your hallway. Did the Riv at least dedicate towers to us?

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                        • #42
                          Re: From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv near bankruptcy

                          Originally posted by arahel_jazz View Post
                          Its really not the space that is an issue at the Riv, its the layout of the hallways. CP may have less space, but you can sure as hell get around it a whole lot easier with 4,000 peeps roaming the hallways.
                          One significant change in the map/plans for this year appears to be the consolidation of 4 out of 5 speaker rooms to being all next to each other. This will mean people moving from one presentation to another won't hourly clog the major hallways used to get from the presentations rooms to the contest areas, vendor room, skyboxes, or other locations. This single change will probably lead to a huge change to the previous hourly clogs of people, though long lines for high profile speakers are probably a risk no matter where we are.

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                          • #43
                            Re: From Defcon 17 Wrap-up: The Riv near bankruptcy

                            Originally posted by arahel_jazz View Post
                            BlackHat is getting killed by DEFCON. They are down to only two days of speakers this year. I expect them to focus more on the high priced training in 2011. Most of the speakers are the same between conferences anyway.

                            Its really not the space that is an issue at the Riv, its the layout of the hallways. CP may have less space, but you can sure as hell get around it a whole lot easier with 4,000 peeps roaming the hallways.

                            If DEFCON could get a little bit better venue in 2011, it would rock. Even if we had to go to $200 in reg fees - I'd be there.
                            Hasn't Black Hat always been two days of briefings and four days of training? I know 2009 was (one year sampling! )

                            Not sure what you mean by "getting killed by DEFCON". If you mean pure headcount, then yep, you're right. That's going to happen when there's a $1,000+ in registration cost.

                            I just don't see the two cons competing with each other at all. It's a great partnership. Black Hat provides awesome trainings and then a subset of DEFCON talks (I agree the majority of the talks are the same) at a higher price to a different clientele in a different setting. Believe it or not, there are people that would rather go to BH because of venue, less people, and their company is "OK" paying to send employees there, but wouldn't pay for DEFCON. It's OK that these companies don't realize that DEFCON provides great value for security knowledge; they just know that DC is the "hacker con" and BH isn't labeled that. Stupid, I know.

                            I personally get the enjoy the best of both worlds this year. I'm attending a BH course, giving a BH talk, and then attending DEFCON. It's going to be great.

                            Who knows what will happen with the DEFCON venue. None of us want to be trapped in a hallway for 45 minutes to move 50 yards (pretty close to Friday morning 2009). I trust the layout changes will help and that DT & crew will always make sure DEFCON is held at the best location at the best price possible.

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