Reviving PokerCon?

[theprez98]

I have seen previous threads like this. Russ and Cot both commented in that thread that under the current format, costs and restrictions made it prohibitive. Also Cot mentioned the PokerCon event planning discussions.

There seemed to be considerable interest back then, and I suspect the same would be true now. Having read the back-story from the previous experiences, does anyone see a way that, given enough prior planning, this could be accomplished in a legally satisfactory way?

One of the issues with a charity poker tournament, based on a post by Xodia, was:

The NV gaming commission allows charitable Poker Tournaments to be held without having to establish any sort of special permission. We thought it would be an excellant idea to have the EFF take the proceeds from PokerCon. Unfortunatly, the charity has to be based IN Nevada for it to be square with the laws.

In order to have a tournament without a NV based charity we would have to have registrants donate to the charity in advance, then be invited to the tournament to be held in Las Vegas. This would require all the players to pre-register which makes it impossible to break even on the event. We really needed people to be able to sign up at Defcon.

I have no idea if there are worthy Nevada charities that hackers would willingly donate to; is it even feasible or worthwhile at this juncture that some known charity could establish a Nevada presence for the purposes of legally accepting money from this endeavor?

Certainly not trying to remake the wheel here or step on any toes. Others (especially Xodia) have done a lot of prior prep work, I am simply offering to help pick up the mantle (with others of course!) if there is a path forward.

Ideas?

[shrdlu]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

With the caveat that I am not entirely caffeinated, here's this bit that may be helpful...

...I have no idea if there are worthy Nevada charities that hackers would willingly donate to; is it even feasible or worthwhile at this juncture that some known charity could establish a Nevada presence for the purposes of legally accepting money from this endeavor?

Each chapter of the Red Cross has a local base, and I can't see why you couldn't select the Las Vegas chapter of the Red Cross for your charity. Here's the web site:

http://www.redcrosslasvegas.org/

[theprez98]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

With the caveat that I am not entirely caffeinated, here's this bit that may be helpful...



Each chapter of the Red Cross has a local base, and I can't see why you couldn't select the Las Vegas chapter of the Red Cross for your charity. Here's the web site:

http://www.redcrosslasvegas.org/

I was thinking along those lines; or (more complicated) established a non-profit explicitly for the charity event; and then let the non-profit pass the money to whomever.

Either way, I think it can be worked out--provided there is interest.

[theprez98]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

Is there any interest in this, either in organizing or playing?

[Chris]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

Is there any interest in this, either in organizing or playing?

I'd be more interested in playing if it wasn't going to charity to be honest. I know that comes off dicky, but we are getting to the point where we should think about renaming DEF CON to EFF CON. I think every time I get the beer shits in Vegas someone donates five bucks to EFF.

I still think that if you limited registration to 100 people, preregistered, free registration, played with custom DC18 poker chips and just gave away prizes (aka first place gets the set of chips) it would be fun.

So yes, I'd be interested in playing in a DC18 poker tournament, but no I'm not interested in doing another charity fund raiser at DEF CON.

[theprez98]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

I'd be more interested in playing if it wasn't going to charity to be honest. I know that comes off dicky, but we are getting to the point where we should think about renaming DEF CON to EFF CON. I think every time I get the beer shits in Vegas someone donates five bucks to EFF.

I still think that if you limited registration to 100 people, preregistered, free registration, played with custom DC18 poker chips and just gave away prizes (aka first place gets the set of chips) it would be fun.

So yes, I'd be interested in playing in a DC18 poker tournament, but no I'm not interested in doing another charity fund raiser at DEF CON.

I respect where your comments are coming from. In a similar vein I have seen a few people selling Shmoo tickets on ebay getting shit on because they're trying to make a few bucks instead of donating it to EFF or IHC or Haiti or whatever.

My only goal was to find a way for it to work; I figured it would be easier to pull off by making it a charity tournament since I figured cash prizes would be a non-starter in a casino environment. But if you think it could work otherwise I'd be more than happy to lean that way.

I appreciate your comments and I am certainly open to any and all suggestions to make this work.

[shrdlu]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

I respect where your comments are coming from. In a similar vein I have seen a few people selling Shmoo tickets on ebay getting shit on because they're trying to make a few bucks instead of donating it to EFF or IHC or Haiti or whatever.

My only goal was to find a way for it to work; I figured it would be easier to pull off by making it a charity tournament since I figured cash prizes would be a non-starter in a casino environment. But if you think it could work otherwise I'd be more than happy to lean that way.

I find myself agreeing with Chris on this. I would match my charitable donations with any five random Defcon attendees, and I'd say that I also think that not every single thing needs to have a charitable focus. Girls just want to have fun. Well, okay, guys too.

It doesn't HAVE to be cash prizes. It could be prizes that are appealing to those of us who'd be likely to play, and likely to attend defcon for more than just the drunken brawl that some folks seem to prefer. I can personally donate various items (I have a shopping problem, and have a few items that would be desirable for your average attendee ). A really nice lockpick set might also be nice. I might even play, actually, as long as it wasn't during times when there were talks.

One of the reasons that Foofus and I grew so tired of coffeewars was that all the best stuff was happening while we were drinking coffee. Initially, we started BEFORE talks, and that was much better. If this is going to be held from, say, 10AM to 4PM, I'm out. Besides, poker is an evening game, anyway.

[Chris]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

I find myself agreeing with Chris on this. I would match my charitable donations with any five random Defcon attendees, and I'd say that I also think that not every single thing needs to have a charitable focus. Girls just want to have fun. Well, okay, guys too.

It doesn't HAVE to be cash prizes. It could be prizes that are appealing to those of us who'd be likely to play, and likely to attend defcon for more than just the drunken brawl that some folks seem to prefer. I can personally donate various items (I have a shopping problem, and have a few items that would be desirable for your average attendee ). A really nice lockpick set might also be nice. I might even play, actually, as long as it wasn't during times when there were talks.

One of the reasons that Foofus and I grew so tired of coffeewars was that all the best stuff was happening while we were drinking coffee. Initially, we started BEFORE talks, and that was much better. If this is going to be held from, say, 10AM to 4PM, I'm out. Besides, poker is an evening game, anyway.

On that note. Our vendors are AWESOME about donating prizes for contests. Prez, If you do organize this (and I hope you do) and want to coordinate with me I can help you get prizes from the vendors. The only drawback there is you probably won't know what the prizes are before DEF CON starts.

Again, I don't think this is a big deal. I think people would play for bragging rights alone, the prize is secondary.

[theprez98]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

It doesn't HAVE to be cash prizes...

One of the reasons that Foofus and I grew so tired of coffeewars was that all the best stuff was happening while we were drinking coffee. Initially, we started BEFORE talks, and that was much better. If this is going to be held from, say, 10AM to 4PM, I'm out. Besides, poker is an evening game, anyway.

On that note. Our vendors are AWESOME about donating prizes for contests. Prez, If you do organize this (and I hope you do) and want to coordinate with me I can help you get prizes from the vendors. The only drawback there is you probably won't know what the prizes are before DEF CON starts.

Again, I don't think this is a big deal. I think people would play for bragging rights alone, the prize is secondary.

Excellent comments. I especially like the idea about prizes, and assuming I go forward (at this point I have every intention of doing so), I will definitely coordinate about prizes/vendors.

As for timing, there is too much going on at DEFCON for any time to be ideal, but I think at night after the main events are done is preferable.

[theprez98]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

Getting things started:

* PokerCon blog - Just getting started up, but this'll be the main means of communication to the players (other than the forums)

* Twitter - follow if you're interested either in playing or volunteering; also updates to the blog will be posted here

I expect to be posting a lot in the near future as I continue to gather information. As always, comments and suggestions are appreciated.

[SecurityBarbie]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

I am interested in playing, and I'd be more then happy to help out if needed.

[Schuyler]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

I am in, absolutely. I've also been working on a custom line of lockpicks for the past 6 months. I'm going to be going into business selling them in the next ~3 months (just selecting the right fab shop & finishing packaging design now) and would happily donate some picks + custom cases for the event.

[theprez98]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

The next step before we can move forward is talking to the appropriate folks about space and time:

Location. I suspect the best location for this would be in the contest area, but I don't know how late that area is typically open. If not available, is there somewhere else that could accommodate upwards of 100 people? 10 large round tables with 10 people? Could be a tight squeeze.

Time. I am leaning toward night after the official events are over. Sure, we'll likely conflict with other events, but that is inevitable. So Friday night? Saturday night? In general, I am thinking ~100 people with a fairly aggressive blind schedule could be done in 4 hours, but some wiggle room would be nice.

Also:

Dealers. I'd love to have dealers for every starting table, but that possibility is just going to come down to availability of volunteers. It may not be possible at every table initially, but as people bust out we'll likely have some players who will be willing to deal. I think we'll definitely have a dealer at the final table and perhaps more if possible.

In the meantime I am working on a (very) preliminary budget:

* (preferably) customized DEFCON poker chips; I already received one recommendation where to buy (thanks!) and if others have recommendations keep them coming
* unless a better (more affordable) option comes up I'll probably look at standard paper cards for the tables and maybe a nice deck of KEM plastic cards for the final table
* buttons for the dealer, big and small blinds
* other items to consider?

I would love to have a final table with small hole-card webcams that would not be viewable by players but could be displayed to spectators; but that's just a pipe dream (and it would probably be impossible to prevent cheating).

[Chris]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

The next step before we can move forward is talking to the appropriate folks about space and time:

Location. I suspect the best location for this would be in the contest area, but I don't know how late that area is typically open. If not available, is there somewhere else that could accommodate upwards of 100 people? 10 large round tables with 10 people? Could be a tight squeeze.

Time. I am leaning toward night after the official events are over. Sure, we'll likely conflict with other events, but that is inevitable. So Friday night? Saturday night? In general, I am thinking ~100 people with a fairly aggressive blind schedule could be done in 4 hours, but some wiggle room would be nice.

Also:

Dealers. I'd love to have dealers for every starting table, but that possibility is just going to come down to availability of volunteers. It may not be possible at every table initially, but as people bust out we'll likely have some players who will be willing to deal. I think we'll definitely have a dealer at the final table and perhaps more if possible.

In the meantime I am working on a (very) preliminary budget:

* (preferably) customized DEFCON poker chips; I already received one recommendation where to buy (thanks!) and if others have recommendations keep them coming
* unless a better (more affordable) option comes up I'll probably look at standard paper cards for the tables and maybe a nice deck of KEM plastic cards for the final table
* buttons for the dealer, big and small blinds
* other items to consider?

I would love to have a final table with small hole-card webcams that would not be viewable by players but could be displayed to spectators; but that's just a pipe dream (and it would probably be impossible to prevent cheating).

Contact Russ (russ@defcon.org) about availability of space in the contest area. I'd try to figure out the time required before I contacted him. I am assuming the blind levels aren't going to be very long to move the action along?

[shrdlu]

Re: Reviving PokerCon?

Dealers. I'd love to have dealers for every starting table, but that possibility is just going to come down to availability of volunteers. It may not be possible at every table initially, but as people bust out we'll likely have some players who will be willing to deal. I think we'll definitely have a dealer at the final table and perhaps more if possible.

[snip]

I would love to have a final table with small hole-card webcams that would not be viewable by players but could be displayed to spectators; but that's just a pipe dream (and it would probably be impossible to prevent cheating).

WAVES Frantically!!! Me me me... I volunteer to be a dealer, especially if I get to be the final dealer. I even have a nice green shade. Okay, NOW this is starting to sound like some serious fun. I love fun. It's my favorite. Oh, and ix-nay on the cameras. Bad idea, for just the reasons you think.