Schools Spy on Students

[streaker69]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

It sounds like these two statements cannot both be true. How do they know that they didn't access any laptops that weren't lost, missing, or stolen if they are still planning on reviewing the logs?

You're applying logic to a group of people that thought it was a good idea to install such software without proper notification and apparently proper training of their staff.

You can see where you've gone wrong there, right?

[TwinVega]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

You can see where you've gone wrong there, right?

Point noted.

Especially since facon12 pointed out that they don't even admit to it in the first place.

1. Did an assistant principal at Harriton ever have the ability to remotely monitor a student at home? Did she utilize a photo taken by a school-issued laptop to discipline a student?
No. At no time did any high school administrator have the ability or actually access the security- tracking software. …The district never did and never would use such tactics as a basis for disciplinary action.

Maybe they're trying to say that no "high school administrator" had access to the security-tracking software. That's not to say that they didn't have the authority to get IT to do whatever they want with the software. It still states that it would never use such tactics as a basis for disciplinary action though, somebody has to be mistaken on this one(either the press or the school.)

[streaker69]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

Point noted.

Especially since facon12 pointed out that they don't even admit to it in the first place.

Maybe they're trying to say that no "high school administrator" had access to the security-tracking software. That's not to say that they didn't have the authority to get IT to do whatever they want with the software. It still states that it would never use such tactics as a basis for disciplinary action though, somebody has to be mistaken on this one(either the press or the school.)

It does sound as though they're going to be scapegoating IT at the school. If I worked in IT there, I'd probably be secretly consulting with an attorney right now.

[facon12]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

It does sound as though they're going to be scapegoating IT at the school. If I worked in IT there, I'd probably be secretly consulting with an attorney right now.

Agreed especially because of this line:

Only two members of the technology department could access the security feature.

Although if a member of the administration really did approach a student about the photo rather than addressing the issue of the IT employee using the software incorrectly it is hard for me to believe that they can get away with it. Also I really doubt the failure to inform students and parents can be pinned on the IT staff as that sort of responsibility rarely falls on the IT staff in our school districts ( I did a little asking around with some local school admins).

[Thorn]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

Now it's going to get interesting.

this feature was limited to taking a still image of the computer user and an image of the desktop in order to help locate the reported missing, lost, or stolen computer (this includes tracking down a loaner computer that, against regulations, might be taken off campus).

Note two things here: first the word 'reported" and secondly what's contained in the parenthesis. They've let themselves a fair amount of wiggle room that the laptop in question was "reported" as being in some manner as lost/missing/stolen or merely just "off campus."

The one aspect that might save district's bacon is that they own the laptops, and like work computers, the use may be governed by policies.

[streaker69]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

Now it's going to get interesting.

Note two things here: first the word 'reported" and secondly what's contained in the parenthesis. They've let themselves a fair amount of wiggle room that the laptop in question was "reported" as being in some manner as lost/missing/stolen or merely just "off campus."

The one aspect that might save district's bacon is that they own the laptops, and like work computers, the use may be governed by policies.

But as you well know, companies go to great pains to notify their employees of exactly what is expected and what kind of monitoring is going to happen. They failed in this part, and admit to doing so. I see this as a major problem as a comment on /. pointed out, if the Student agreed to the terms of the EULA, can they really be bound to it the same way as an employee can?

I think the school is in a lot of trouble, but like always, they'll try to worm their way out of it as best as they can. It would be nice if they'd just take responsibility for their own stupidity and admit they're 100% at fault. After all, it would make a good example for the students in regards to taking responsibility for ones actions.

[Thorn]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

But as you well know, companies go to great pains to notify their employees of exactly what is expected and what kind of monitoring is going to happen.

Some companies do, some don't. Most hand a copy of the procedures to the employee, who agrees, but often fail to read it or understand it.

I see this as a major problem as a comment on /. pointed out, if the Student agreed to the terms of the EULA, can they really be bound to it the same way as an employee can?

Of course they can. Schools bind students (and their parents) to all sorts of agreements all the time.

I think the school is in a lot of trouble, but like always, they'll try to worm their way out of it as best as they can. It would be nice if they'd just take responsibility for their own stupidity and admit they're 100% at fault. After all, it would make a good example for the students in regards to taking responsibility for ones actions.

Riiight, like that will happen. They're a school, meaning they are full of people who have to look up "responsibility" in the dictionary to figure out what it means.

[theprez98]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

The idea of the rogue IT employee seemed to be the popular out, but it may be more convenient than we thought...

http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2010/0...gton-high.html

[streaker69]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

The idea of the rogue IT employee seemed to be the popular out, but it may be more convenient than we thought...

http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2010/0...gton-high.html

Wow, this makes you wonder how deep the rabbit hole really goes.

I surely do hope that some parents do pull the laptops and hand them over to the FBI for forensic study.

[Thorn]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

The idea of the rogue IT employee seemed to be the popular out, but it may be more convenient than we thought...

http://strydehax.blogspot.com/2010/0...gton-high.html

That's the most in depth and technically complete coverage I've seen so far on this story. The blog's author, stryde, doesn't seem to think that Mike Perbix is not necessarily the one to blame here.

update 2/23/2010 10:00am

I've removed Mr. Perbix's picture from my blog. I try very hard to stick to verifiable facts when I write here; this blog post is made up references to primary documents that show a verifiable pattern of action. But I feel that some readers are getting carried away. Myself and Aaron Rhodes spent hours reading forum posts, messages, and communications from Mike Perbix, his "digital shadow". The impression we both got was of a man who was charged with enormous responsibility, worked very hard, was very adept, and was fanatical about protecting kids and the assets he was charged with managing. I don't have all the facts yet, but the impression I got was of someone who was trying to build a state of the art capability and revelled in the promise of technology. If I had to put my finger on what when wrong here, I would say that someone cared too much. Personally I'm much more interested in who this capability was distributed to, and its persistent pattern of access, than I am in the person who built it. If you're reading this, please, let us not participate in a rush to judgement especially against a guy who worked this hard. Yes, he built the capability. Yes it was used. But if it was abused or simply misguided, that remains to be proven. I for one reserve judgement.

Stryde does seem to think for some reason that the Fourth Amendment extends to the school system. He makes this mistake in a couple of places.

For now, what bothers me most is this: When an organ of the State (in this case, a school) builds a system to conduct a search by activating webcams off of school grounds, the only way to determine if the ensuing search will be unreasonable or illegal is to conduct the search. The thought process behind that is unfathomable to me, no matter how much I read about it.

Stryde said...

@dawhead :
"According to their numbers so far, they have used it in association with successful efforts to recover 18 laptops, and unsuccessful efforts to recover another 30 or so. Are you suggesting that their use of the webcams for this purpose was unlawful?"

Great question! I think this is key to the whole discussion. To answer your question, yes, I believe that the use of webcams for theft recovery was unlawful. Does committing a crime waive a victim's Bill of Rights? If so, when did this happen, because accused criminals have maintained their rights in America under the law for the last 40 years. Even if the world's most fiendish serial killer is penned up inside his home, police cannot take pictures inside that home without a search warrant. Search warrants are a cornerstone of our justice system. You want to abolish them using Macbooks? Theft tracking is a Red Herring. Remote IP address tracking of these laptops was reasonable and was used for recovery. Remote screen capture is reasonable and was used for recovery. These two capabilities were enough to recover any stolen asset, and had the fringe benefit of not violating our Republic's most sacred laws. Remote activation of webcams inside children's homes without a search warrant is an unreasonable search by a state agency, a clear and direct violation of the fourth amendment. This is common sense!
February 23, 2010 7:49 AM

Actually, it's isn't common sense, it's a completely off-base interpretation of how the Fourth Amendment is applied in the real world.

[streaker69]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

...and the chopping block has been setup, the executioner is sharpening his axe.

http://www.infosecurity-us.com/view/...-spy-cam-case/

"Placing [the two employees] on administrative leave with pay is not a reflection of any wrongdoing on their part," said the Lower Merion School District in a statement. "It is a standard, prudent step in an investigation such as this one and it occurred in conjunction with the start of the review process nearly two weeks ago."

Anyone who believes that, please stand on your head.

[xor]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

There were a lot of parents that were like, you are spying on our kids, thank you.

xor

Free laptops buy a lot.

[streaker69]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20...of_photos.html

Sounds as though the discovery portion of this case is moving forward nicely.

Back at district offices, the Robbins motion says, employees with access to the images marveled at the tracking software. It was like a window into "a little LMSD soap opera," a staffer is quoted as saying in an e-mail to Carol Cafiero, the administrator running the program.

"I know, I love it," she is quoted as having replied.

[theprez98]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

Methinks Carol Cafiero will be out of job soon.

[streaker69]

Re: Schools Spy on Students

Methinks Carol Cafiero will be out of job soon.

Hangin's too good for her, burnin's too good for her, she should be cut into itsy bitsy pieces and buried alive.