Defcon Kids in the news.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

sending a 9-year-old to a gun safety class

the blogger doesn't really make any sort of compelling case for why this is anything but a smart and responsible activity. then again, she's a New Yorker who now lives in Aspen, Colorado. i am hardly surprised to learn that she's dubious about firearms, lockpicking, and anything marginally interesting if it is exposed to the children!!1!

[eris]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

Cue "They are only teaching them the skills they need to be cyberterrirists!" sort of articles.

I guess in theory this camp is a good idea. But like sending a 9-year-old to a gun safety class, I’d be surprised if most of the kids involved are going with the intention of being cyber cops, or if they’re going instead to learn some tricks of the trade to perform deeds that the organizers are actually trying to prevent in the first place.

[Thorn]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

I think Highwiz said it best in this post. ...

I find it really interesting how polarizing the event already is and it was only just announced.

Agreed. Highwiz hit it on the nose.

BTW, it was just as polarizing in 2008, when we were discussing childcare it pre-DC17:
https://forum.defcon.org/showthread.php?t=9756&page=2

Frankly, I still think it's a bad idea. I didn't bring my kid to DC in the 1990's, and wouldn't bring the grandkids now.

[eris]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

I guess the reality is that some parents will be comfortable with kids being around these activities and some parents will not. Some of the Defcon community will be happy to see Defcon evolve in this manner, some will not.

I am just glad that I live in a country where I have an option to go or not go, and I am happy that Defcon Kids will be an option for at least some kids.

:

I think Highwiz said it best in this post. If someone acts or dresses inappropriately INSIDE the kids area, ok fine, parents, whine away. Otherwise, be prepared to have your child see you humiliated and possibly in handcuffs if you choose to be a dick about it.

They will have their event, we will have ours, and where they meet is no man's land.

I find it really interesting how polarizing the event already is and it was only just announced.

[Bbox]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

I guess the reality is that some parents will be comfortable with kids being around these activities and some parents will not. Some of the Defcon community will be happy to see Defcon evolve in this manner, some will not.

I am just glad that I live in a country where I have an option to go or not go, and I am happy that Defcon Kids will be an option for at least some kids.

What this discussion really makes clear to me is that there is a need for a talk / class at Defcon that helps parents that are not technologically educated or savvy to understand how they can both help their kids that are interested in this field expand their capabilities and also how to better understand what to expect (bedrooms full of equipment, routers and beer can antennas, etc..) and how they can help keep them on the ethical hacking side of the fence.

I guess a class on how to keep the kids out of the parents personal files would not be bad also!

[HighWiz]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

Most of the parties and shindigs where crazy shenanigans are happening like pool2girl are 21+...so no worries there.

Bullshit. pool2girl was not at a 21+ event... There really weren't 21+ events back then...

I've been going to Defcon for awhile now, and hey, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.

What's awhile? Are we talking Riv DefCon? AP DefCon? Earlier? What...?

See, if you're talking Riviera DefCon, then you may only know a DefCon with 21+ parties... If you're talking AP DefCon (or earlier), then you should know better...

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

I've been going to Defcon for awhile now, and hey, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but minus an occasional drunk hacker, from 10-6 PM (KidCon hours) defcon is not as crazy as its made out to be.

I seem to recall one Scavenger Hunt item, one year, was to streak across the stage where someone was giving a presentation. I've seen video evidence of this happening at Defcon. Years later, someone said it was an "item" in the scavenger hunt, and another person claims someone actually did it when the lights were turned out at the closing ceremonies, as KingPin was asking the audience to swing their badges back and fourth, while music was playing to illustrate the "persistence of vision" display option. (I did not see this closing ceremony streaking event happen, and have no evidence that it did, so treat that example as "rumor.")

In presentations, people have historically included video, and/or images of things like goatse, to act as metaphor for "gaping holes" in security, or other metaphor that describe, "back door access," or "tubgirl" to describe how some people make decisions that cause them to get crap all over themselves and ask, "why did this happen to me?" or other humorous *adult* symbolism or metaphor.

At the AP, I remember walking by the main pool while someone was showing off some sort of "shit porn" on their laptop, with descriptive commentary as a bonus from the apparent owner of the laptop.

There are many things that have been put on display at Defcon in many of the public spaces, presentations, meeting rooms, chill-out spaces, and private locations, too. Certain hot tubs at the AP have been mentioned several times because of the events that some claim have taken place there, one sometimes described after-the-fact as, "they do not have enough disinfectant and cleaner in the work to clean that hot tub and make me ever want to get into it after what happened there last night."

Since Defcon moved back to a Casino/Hotel, the frequency of these kinds of incidents has decreased, but I've still seen pranks and actions during the day in public spaces that would likely be described as "adult" in nature.

I try to have an open mind on things and wait until they happen before I judge them. So I am going to play, "wait and see," all the time wondering if my worries from 2+ years ago will come true.

[Forty Seven]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

@Anch If you're worried about language, any of the kids who check out these forums have already been introduced to that...so no worries there. You can have 3 'Fucks' in a PG-13 movie, so "EVERYONE CLEAR THE FUCKING HALLWAY!! MAKE A FUCKING HOLE!!", clears the MPAA censors

Most of the parties and shindigs where crazy shenanigans are happening like pool2girl are 21+...so no worries there.

You don't even have a kid to bring...so no worries there.

I've been going to Defcon for awhile now, and hey, maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but minus an occasional drunk hacker, from 10-6 PM (KidCon hours) defcon is not as crazy as its made out to be.

Everything else aside...it's probably better that CyFi looks up to Drunken Partying Crazy Hackers and Security Professionals then Paris Hilton or Lindsay Lohan

[HighWiz]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

I can see it now..

Dad walking his kid through the crowd. People around Dad & Kid are talking like normal. Dad ask people to not use that language around his kid. Person in crowd tells dad to "go fuck himself". Dad gets uppity... Things go bad, fast.

The idea of a DefCon Kids event isn't a bad idea. Getting kids involved in Hacking is great! However, putting kids in the DefCon Environment may not be the best thing.

The Official DefCon FAQ say's it best:

What is the age limit?

People have brought children to DEF CON - it is not recommended to do this unless you are going to constantly supervise them. It is generally an ‘adult’ atmosphere (language, booze, et cetera). If you've never been to DEF CON, you may want to refrain from bringing your children (unless they are demanding that you bring them)...

Bbox has a point, in having kids at DefCon gives parents the opportunity to discuss things with them. But the parents should be aware going in, that those issues will probably come up. And language will be the tame side of things that you will have to discuss with your children.

[viking]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

I do not believe the parents with the 8 - 11 year olds will put their kids in those situations.

I don't see how they could possibly avoid "those situations." Anch is right. I would rather not be forced to explain goatse to an 8 year-old.

[Anch]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

I do not believe the parents with the 8 - 11 year olds will put their kids in those situations. They will be in the Defcon Kids area and not in ques for talks (so they will have limited contact)

Where is KidCon? At the front of the venue? NOPE it's clear in the fucking back.. Parents with kids are going to have to walk them through the masses of people to get them back there. Past Track1, past CTF, and down the corridor to tracks 3&4. Little contact my ass.

Kids will be in the thick of it, coming and going.

[Bbox]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

Wait, Hold on a Second...

I would like to know how the parents of said kids are going to explain things like pool2girl, the general drunken mayhem, and the goons shouting "EVERYONE CLEAR THE FUCKING HALLWAY!! MAKE A FUCKING HOLE!!"

.

I do not believe the parents with the 8 - 11 year olds will put their kids in those situations. They will be in the Defcon Kids area and not in ques for talks (so they will have limited contact)

As for the 12 - 16 year olds,

I used it as a perfect opportunity to discus sex, foul language and alcohol consumption with my kid. I don't know about your kids, but my kids are going to see this stuff in there daily life anyway so at least this way I had a chance to talk about it with them.

I think the benefits the kids (the right ones anyway ) can get from attending Defcon are far greater than the few drawbacks.

[red_beard]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

Dad, why is that angry bearded man staring me down?

Well, CyFi, Megan's law says he can't be near you. That's a look in his eyes called "hunger".

[Anch]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

Wait, Hold on a Second...

What the hell is going on here!? Vegas (no matter how the commercials make it sound) is not a kid friendly place. Having a place for 8-16 yo. kids at DefCon!? Are people out of their fucking minds!?

I would like to know how the parents of said kids are going to explain things like pool2girl, the general drunken mayhem, and the goons shouting "EVERYONE CLEAR THE FUCKING HALLWAY!! MAKE A FUCKING HOLE!!"

I don't think this is a good idea. I know I wouldn't bring my kid to con (if I had one).

Defcon and vegas *ARE NOT* kid friendly places. Encouraging people to bring their kids is foolish. Leave your kids at home people, it's only 1 weekend a year.

[Bbox]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

however, i do not plan on altering my traditional appearance, language, or alcohol consumption to any significant degree just because of the audience... which is typical of all our appearances, no matter who we're teaching.

I believe that most of the kids who have an interest that would bring them to an event like Defcon (Defcon Kids) are just younger versions of the people we see every year at the Con.

I think it would be insulting to them and their intelligence if we were to dress or behave differently around them. (at least the older ones that will most likely also attend some non kid Defcon talks/ events (with a guardian))