DEAF CON [ Copy of t=13487 ]

[Knollgrass]

Re: DEAF CON

I'm not sure about anyone else, but I wasn't planning on it. Should we?

I'm not sure to be honest. The only thing I could justify taking talking time would be to talk about how opening the conference to the Deaf community would grow/diversify the hacker community. But that's hardly something we can claim having no evidence of that. Nor do we have any evidence of the success of doing something like Deafcon. We might be able to do a talk on something like that next year but not this year.

[arose4beni]

Re: DEAF CON

I'd also like to add a single person cost estimate so there's actual numbers in the proposal. That will need to include estimated travel, lodging, badge? and cost for services (if not volunteer).

If the link gives any of you problems let me know.

I've added some estimates for travel and lodging and possible badge costs to the proposal draft. Still have yet to research the precise cost for interpreting/CART services.

I'm also still plugging away at my first round of editing on the proposal. Lots of good stuff :).

[Knollgrass]

Re: DEAF CON

I've added some estimates for travel and lodging and possible badge costs to the proposal draft. Still have yet to research the precise cost for interpreting/CART services.

I'm also still plugging away at my first round of editing on the proposal. Lots of good stuff :).

Just got a chance to look at your changes and they look good. I would go ahead and formalize them (make the text black) and reorder the sections into a more cohesive flow. As you can tell I'm a mediocre writer.

[arose4beni]

Re: DEAF CON

Just got a chance to look at your changes and they look good. I would go ahead and formalize them (make the text black) and reorder the sections into a more cohesive flow. As you can tell I'm a mediocre writer.

No worries. I have edited much, much worse. It's really just a matter of using more precise language. I formalized my changes and moved some sections around. I'm still at odds with the placement of one section, but I'll take a look at that later during my second edit (unless someone else moves it for better flow, which is totally encouraged).

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: DEAF CON

I definitely like the way the proposal is shaping up and value the great input and effort being seen. When DT and I spoke about this before, one of the primary points of the conversation was concern over the ADA laws and not wanting to wind up entangled in something that would cost DEFCON money.

That said, it might be beneficial to temper or adjust some of the wording in regard to money matters...

Badge: Besides shirts, Deafcon staff and interpreters should also have staff badges, possibly with a special sticker noting their affiliation.

i would shy away from assertions of who "should" have a staff badge. I have been pseudo-staff at DEFCON for 5 years or more, but only on two years did i ever actually get goon badge. and i have never had one of the black Goon Staff shirts.

interpreters and such are less likely to be seen with Staff badges or shirts of any kind, especially on this first year trying this. even though DEFCON staff are all-volunteer, such a tacit connection between the staff and the 'terps could raise some ADA compliance issues or union issues. This event should really be -- at least on paper -- a bunch of folk doing their own thing out of their own initiative and not at the direction or behest of DEFCON. the main communication we should have with DEFCON (indeed, possibly the only communication) should be along the lines of "we want to do this thing without any support from you, please let us know if doing it in this manner will have as minimal an impact upon DEFCON as possible"

There has also been the suggestion of custom badges for Deafcon interpreters and volunteers. However, this may increase badge production costs.

I had envisioned just laser-cut translucent acrylic in varying colors. an "additional" badge, hanging with people's DEFCON badges. if this idea is viewed as a good one, i'll make these myself at my own cost. my view was at least four badge colors...

1. DEAFCON participants (D/HoH folks)
2. official interpreters
3. DEAFCON friends/helpers (with some ASL skills)
4. DEAFCON friends/helpers (who lack any ASL skills)

... should allow for fast and easy identification, hopefully. And it also accommodates folk who wish to just have a badge because they like badges. Anyone at DEFCON can get category #4 of badge if they ask, for as long as supplies last.

Payment for services: Interpreters and captionists on charge on average $50-$60 per hour. However, savings can be made by negotiating lump sum payments for the entire conference.

i thought there was some discussion in previous communications of the interpreters giving of their time as volunteers, as long as funds were raised to get folk out there and have a place to stay. Travel/Lodging paid by crowd-sourcing and Effort/Time given by folk themselves is a typical model at DEFCON.

For example, all of the TOOOL Lockpick Village staff are comp'd for their rooms (sharing rooms in order to make this possible) and one or two key figures have some travel covered... but no one is paid at all for their time at DEFCON. (We do offer free meals to staff as much as we can, however... so there's that, heh)


We might want to fine-tune some of that language before submitting anything to DT.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: DEAF CON

there is one way that something could indeed impact the con but which i think might be a good idea, if DT and the planners go for it: a very small room for DEAFCON usage. i don't want to see most of the participants themselves all sequestered off somewhere (i think it'd be way cooler to see the Deaf/HoH hackers just lounging in the main hangout spaces, where others can see the awesomeness of ASL) but a separate meeting area and spot for 'terps to cool down, relax, see about the next talks where their services may be needed, etc... that could be very helpful.

i'm thinking of a room no larger than the DEFCON Kids room (like 15' x 25' i think that may have been) with just some comfy chairs, round tables, etc

[Knollgrass]

Re: DEAF CON

Deviant, feel free to make those changes. I'm not particularly talented at writing so I'm glad you're catching these things.

i would shy away from assertions of who "should" have a staff badge. I have been pseudo-staff at DEFCON for 5 years or more, but only on two years did i ever actually get goon badge. and i have never had one of the black Goon Staff shirts.

Yeah it would be bad if we look like we're getting too big for our britches. Also my suggestion about the interpreter t-shirts what not for the interpreters to get Goon staff shirts. Just something we make up to make ourselves easily identifiable to Deaf attendees.

union issues

Not sure what you mean by this. Are the goons... unionized?

---

For the badges, I'm cool with just stickers. Smiley faces if we have nothing better. But laser cut acrylic sounds sweet!

Payment for services: Interpreters and captionists on charge on average $50-$60 per hour. However, savings can be made by negotiating lump sum payments for the entire conference.

Right, volunteers are our first priority but i'm making that point in the event that this becomes more popular than we are able to find interpreters to volunteer. And it's possible to tell attendees "hey we have two interpreters this year and we'll plan more for next year"

I wanted to add the price estimates on time to be honest with DT if it comes down to purchasing interpreters. We should have all bases covered, it and when, the questions arrise.

[TheCotMan]

Re: DEAF CON

I definitely like the way the proposal is shaping up and value the great input and effort being seen. When DT and I spoke about this before, one of the primary points of the conversation was concern over the ADA laws and not wanting to wind up entangled in something that would cost DEFCON money.

That said, it might be beneficial to temper or adjust some of the wording in regard to money matters...

i would shy away from assertions of who "should" have a staff badge. I have been pseudo-staff at DEFCON for 5 years or more, but only on two years did i ever actually get goon badge. and i have never had one of the black Goon Staff shirts.

interpreters and such are less likely to be seen with Staff badges or shirts of any kind, especially on this first year trying this. even though DEFCON staff are all-volunteer, such a tacit connection between the staff and the 'terps could raise some ADA compliance issues or union issues. This event should really be -- at least on paper -- a bunch of folk doing their own thing out of their own initiative and not at the direction or behest of DEFCON. the main communication we should have with DEFCON (indeed, possibly the only communication) should be along the lines of "we want to do this thing without any support from you, please let us know if doing it in this manner will have as minimal an impact upon DEFCON as possible"


I had envisioned just laser-cut translucent acrylic in varying colors. an "additional" badge, hanging with people's DEFCON badges. if this idea is viewed as a good one, i'll make these myself at my own cost. my view was at least four badge colors...

1. DEAFCON participants (D/HoH folks)
2. official interpreters
3. DEAFCON friends/helpers (with some ASL skills)
4. DEAFCON friends/helpers (who lack any ASL skills)

... should allow for fast and easy identification, hopefully. And it also accommodates folk who wish to just have a badge because they like badges. Anyone at DEFCON can get category #4 of badge if they ask, for as long as supplies last.

i thought there was some discussion in previous communications of the interpreters giving of their time as volunteers, as long as funds were raised to get folk out there and have a place to stay. Travel/Lodging paid by crowd-sourcing and Effort/Time given by folk themselves is a typical model at DEFCON.

For example, all of the TOOOL Lockpick Village staff are comp'd for their rooms (sharing rooms in order to make this possible) and one or two key figures have some travel covered... but no one is paid at all for their time at DEFCON. (We do offer free meals to staff as much as we can, however... so there's that, heh)


We might want to fine-tune some of that language before submitting anything to DT.

This above provides you all with great examples of how Deviant Ollam's experience makes him an asset with this. His experience interfacing with Defcon goons and staff provide a great deal of knowledge on what is feasible, what is possible, and what is difficult or troublesome. Reading above, it also sounds like he has done some preliminary work, before he posted this thread. (If I was looking to run an event at Defcon, but had little experience, I'd welcome him to lead it and learn from him. He has a history of starting things and handing them off to other people after they are started.)

Thanks to all of you for these updates; it shows there is progress. Keeping discussions going with ideas, here, twitter, google docs and elsewhere keeps this active and draws attention to it without empty fluff like the much disliked, "bumping," of posts without value.

Something else that helps get people interested in contributing is asking questions. It works in nearly any social network or service.

Thanks again, and good luck!

[arose4beni]

Re: DEAF CON

i would shy away from assertions of who "should" have a staff badge.

Good catch. That was my mistake. I meant to type "could." Sorry about that!

I had envisioned just laser-cut translucent acrylic in varying colors. an "additional" badge, hanging with people's DEFCON badges. if this idea is viewed as a good one, i'll make these myself at my own cost. my view was at least four badge colors...

1. DEAFCON participants (D/HoH folks)
2. official interpreters
3. DEAFCON friends/helpers (with some ASL skills)
4. DEAFCON friends/helpers (who lack any ASL skills)

... should allow for fast and easy identification, hopefully. And it also accommodates folk who wish to just have a badge because they like badges. Anyone at DEFCON can get category #4 of badge if they ask, for as long as supplies last.

That sounds great. Though I'd hate for you to front all of the cost. I would definitely like one of those category 4 badges.

We might want to fine-tune some of that language before submitting anything to DT.

On it. And please feel free to make changes as well!

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: DEAF CON

And please feel free to make changes as well!

i'll leave it to you to tweak the changes if you're going to be the party who submits the document itself. Alternately, if you would like me to be the primary person who coordinates things with DEFCON proper, i'm happy to do that. Whenever we all are at a point that we're satisfied with the proposal, i'll send it to Jeff.

How do we feel about the rest of the roles that I suggested in a previous post...

Lady Merlin - social media (i'm likely putting her in charge of the Twitter feed)
Knollgrass - professional interpreter coordination
arose4beni - professional interpreter coordination / paperwork and document management. ;-)
ewilliam - community liaison to the Deaf Hackers group

... does this look good?

[Knollgrass]

Re: DEAF CON

How do we feel about the rest of the roles that I suggested in a previous post...

Lady Merlin - social media (i'm likely putting her in charge of the Twitter feed)
Knollgrass - professional interpreter coordination
arose4beni - professional interpreter coordination / paperwork and document management. ;-)
ewilliam - community liaison to the Deaf Hackers group

... does this look good?

It looks good to me. Just as a point of curiosity, what happens after we send it to Jeff? Or a guess a better way to phase that would be "what are our possible outcomes"?

[arose4beni]

Re: DEAF CON

I'll probably complete my second round of editing tomorrow. I just came down with a wonderful sinus cold as many of my coworkers came back this week from the same illness.

Are we adding the small DEAFCON hangout area to the proposal? Do we send that question out to the community?

I'm down with the labels. Document Management sounds fancy. :)

[Knollgrass]

Re: DEAF CON

I'll probably complete my second round of editing tomorrow. I just came down with a wonderful sinus cold as my many of my coworkers came back this week from the same illness.

Are we adding the small DEAFCON hangout area to the proposal? Do we send that question out to the community?

I'm down with the labels. Document Management sounds fancy. :)

I would say something like "if there's extra room for the Deafcon people to have a table, that would be nice". Like Deviant said, we need to not sound demanding.

I hope you feel better!

[Rewt Daemon]

Re: DEAF CON

3. DEAFCON friends/helpers (with some ASL skills)
4. DEAFCON friends/helpers (who lack any ASL skills)

Save me one of each of those please! I intend to be able to wear the former before DC21 gets going... and the latter is in case I don't manage to get enough under my belt before then! Just to prove your point about people liking badges.

Seriously though I am wanting to learn ASL and have been meaning to do something about that for years but have never gotten round to it. This may be the incentive I needed. Or I may grab one of the 'terps off dudy, buy them a beer and arrange for a lesson or two.

I love this idea though and am super pleased to see it get more form!

[arose4beni]

Re: DEAF CON

The second round of editing is done. I've changed some language around and added Deviant's idea of the additional badges.

Feedback is welcomed as always. :)