DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

Does anyone still have a working VHS?

you some kinda' young upstart? Beta's not good enough for you? :-)

<someone with a gray beard, insert Cartri-Vision joke here>

[800XL]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

you some kinda' young upstart? Beta's not good enough for you? :-)

<someone with a gray beard, insert Cartri-Vision joke here>

Betamax never really came to Eastern Europe when I was growing up, so I did not have a chance to check it out!

[bluknight]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

A special edition DEF CON Trojan?

I think you found the perfect swag for this year, Nikita.

[elkentaro]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

USB stick for sale would be cool.

Embedded the data inside the badge maybe?

[Nikita]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

I'm still maintaining my laserdisc.... got to have my star wars as I saw it in 1977.

I saw a giant box of discs in good condition at our local antique mall the other day. I briefly considered it, I recall when I was a kid how awesome it was to see movies on that, way better than the VHS we had at home. The I realized I have no room for that kinda shit. However, If you are looking for something I could look for you next weekend maybe. I recall there being the Sargent peppers lonely hearts club and some other music type videos, as well as a bunch of movies.

[Nikita]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

I think you found the perfect swag for this year, Nikita.

Roflcopter. It took days for someone to make the joke, I knew it would happen as soon as I typed it. :-) And I now have a plethora of like minded puns in my head.....

[TheCotMan]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

There are really a few parts to this:
* What media should be used?
* What is the target audience?
* What codecs for audio/video should be used?
* What about family and friends using smart phones or tablets?
* Which has more opportunity for Defcon Artwork?



If the media is USB or a "data DVD" then pretty much any video/audio codecs can be used.

If the media is DVD, and it is meant to be played in most consumer electronic DVD players, then there is really just one choice for encoding of video/audio.




1) First question: which will become obsolete sooner? USB or DVD?

Both USB and DVD are very old. History shows that even established hardware interfaces can be replaced with something not backwards compatible. (Consider slots for cards, PCI vs PCI2, and PCIe, Parallel Ports, 9/25-pin Serial, 3.5"/5.25" stiffies/floppies ... all established shipped on all personal computers, but not anymore.)

Eventually, USB will be obsoleted by something else and not be backward compatible.

DVD/Blu[e]Ray will suffer the same fate.

Which will die sooner?



2) Next question: what is the intended audience for these videos, and what is the best way to provide access to this target audience?

If you are the only intended audience, and you like USB, then your decsion has been made.

If your intended audience is "other people" then consider the claim of malware on the "Defcon Branded" USB Stick; it demonstrates an attendee's view and trepidation at the prospects of inserting a DEF CON branded USB device in their computer. What would "Joe Public" think about it? What about your family or friends, especially when you have talked about "evil maid attacks with USB, and Firewire devices." When you plug your USB Drive into their device, and an unrelated event in the future causes their device to [choose something unexpected here] will they blame you for plugging your device into their computer? Obviously, it would have nothing to do with that executable attachment they opened from, "boner-pills Nigerian fresh prince of Hong Kong with 'girls in your area.'" Many modern media devices and TV now support USB ports to play media, but have limits on what codecs they will support when reading these drives.

If your intended audience are grandparents (if under ~30) or parents (if over ~30) then they are very likely to have a dedicated "consumer electronics device" that is called a "DVD Player" separate from their computer, which is simple to use, and will not likely start acting in an unexpected way after playing DVD, even if they open that attachment on their computer.


3) Which codec?
If this is a conventional video DVD (for use with consumer electronic DVD) then codec is limited.

If stored on "Data DVD" or thumb drives, or other media, please consider using a good mix of "good quality" , "small size" , and "widely compatible". Saving 10% space, or having a little better quality is not worth the cost of not being able to play on the greatest numbers of devices.

Suggestion: AVI Container with an MP4 video (and few if any experimental features, only choosing the minimum "REQUIRES" features) and MP3 audio. I understand the value of OGG, but again, for compatibility with playback on the greatest number of devices, MP3 is more likely to work in more places.


4) What about family and friends using smart phones or tablets?

Though many *stock* tablets support "USB OTG" , not all of them do, and those that do not can often be "rooted" and/or "unlocked and rooted" to allow installation of an OS that will support "USB OTG" and then allow these devices to mount external media. Will all people you would want to share these videos with be happy with you unlocking/rooting their device and installing a new OS? Are you willing to support this device for them? Next, watching videos for such a long time on smart phones and tablets will surely drain power from battery fast. Yes, presently there are claims for "hacks" with a combination of "USB OTG" and capacity to "charge your device with USB Power" at the same time, but the number of device that have claimed support for this is tiny, in comparison to just USB OTG, and many times requires a non-stock kernel and/or OS, plus a custom "Y" cable for your device with extra pins included in a pin-out.

Obviously, for smart phone and tablet users, the ideal format is "cloud-based" access through something like "youtube" or "hulu" or any other video streaming service.

Next, tablets and smartphones seem to be displacing "laptop/netbook" computers, as the average consumer does not need a "portable desktop PC" just something to check mail, browse the web, and maybe type papers, and play AngryBirds/Simpsons/.* without the hassle of device drivers, and BSOD, or kernel panic.

Like it or not, "consumer electronics," drives availability, and whatever is "common" or "mainstream" as "consumer electronic devices" is what is always supported longest, even if some other technology is "better."

A small-segment example of the above is immediately available in the smart-phone world... the greater the number of sales of ANY smart phone, the greater the number of accessories, and larger batteries with custom replacement plates (for larger batteries) are available and for longer.

DVD are like this. There are *still* people that have DVD players, but do not have computers.

Is it the case that there are people that have computers but own no devices capable of playing DVD?


5) Next question: which has more opportunity for Defcon Artwork?
DVD have a larger surface area than USB thumb drives.





I can go with either, but for sharing with family (mostly older) I would prefer DVD, and because I like Defcon Artwork, and can hope for more of it on DVD than on a UDB dongle.

Whatever I get, I can convert to what I need.

Please choose a mainstream codec for video/audio, though so I'll still have easy access to libs necessary to play it back and re-encode it in 5, 10, and maybe 15 years. :-)

[astcell]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

I never understand that, people say the same thing about the conference CD and if you are THAT vulnerable to begin with that you can't handle even examining the media then I shake my fist at you.

When cDc put out a virus on Back Orifice some years back I had wondered if they did that to simply stop the script kiddies in their tracks, or were they really that daft.

[blakdayz]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

Wait, you're the same person who said we needed to keep having a CD/DVD for the conference materials ( slides/pdfs), so it could be used at con incase a talk was pulled and there is some leet stuff, etc. I think it funny that a CD yes, but a USB no.

In the instance of a USB Stick, What are you worried about? I can only assume, by saying that, you'd be concerned about the security risk, even though it's something produced and distributed by us. Do you think we want to mass produce, sell, and distribute some kind of malware? A special edition DEF CON Trojan? Get off my lawn.

I never understand that, people say the same thing about the conference CD and if you are THAT vulnerable to begin with that you can't handle even examining the media then I shake my fist at you. Furthermore, I take it as a personal insult because damn it I am the one who has to put all that shit together and I'm not about to dump some CDC goatse disguised as DEFCON21.pdf, I think that would kinda be bad for business.

For the record: Yes we need to distribute the talks in a format that, if ever needed, would not be easily erasable (prevents nonsense like court orders from being enforced easily). Which was my point. So yeah, a CD is a great idea vs USB on that note. As far as the content itself...who said I put any media from DC into any machine? Fact: I have never put a CD from DC into my PC.

I will also say that a huge amount of folks don't view the CD because, if it were them, they would have put some easter eggs in it - so they are assuming someone else probably has. And a special edition DEF CON botnet may not be a bad idea to some folks. I bet its on a wishlist somewhere....

As far as me being vulnerable goes... my machine is a breeding ground and birthing place of nasty software [all my own], Hell... I recommend wrapping the keyboard in a condom during regular use. It's a matter of spreading something 'out' of my network - not so much 'in'.
Alas, its not YOU or anyone else I work with at DC that I am worried about [altho that Chris guy is sketchy ;) ]. It is that 'someone' in the supply line of duplication that decides the latest version of Sinowal is an 'added value' for the DEF CON 21 Video release.


In parting, I will leave this here > http://attrition.org/errata/cpo/

[Nikita]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

Alas, its not YOU or anyone else I work with at DC that I am worried about [altho that Chris guy is sketchy ;) ]. It is that 'someone' in the supply line of duplication].snip..

My whole point was, we (staff) put it together and they're openly discrediting a product we produce based on presumptive FUD. I don't think it fair. You're entitled to your opinion, I am not begrudging you that but I wanted to speak up for my perspective here. I'm not just here to tow the company line but even in things I choose not to support or agree with (there are a few), I don't undermine their worth, especially as a goon. To imply publicly that they are inherently unsanitary or without worth except for the atypical reasons like you said it devalues the work we put in. It's kinda a bad impression for DEF CON attendees to read that our media is so shady that DC Goons won't even trust it.

I don't want to derail this entire thread with us arguing/debating over something so inconsequential so I'll drop it and leave it at that.

[800XL]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

Nikita, just curious, do you guys check the presentation .pdf files for malicious content at all before printing the CD's?

[Nikita]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

QUOTE=800XL;128078]Nikita, just curious, do you guys check the presentation .pdf files for malicious content at all before printing the CD's?[/QUOTE]

Yes.

[y3t1]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

Super8?

No...USB Would be cool.

- y3t1

[blakdayz]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

" It's kinda a bad impression for DEF CON attendees to read that our media is so shady that DC Goons won't even trust it. ".

....

Its not shady, just my personal policy. CD with something 'extra'... like a rootkit ..... maybe? .... but prolly not,

rewriteable media? not the most trustworthhy imho. NO one ever sent something infected out on purpose. To assume the case is fail....

On the other note... If its a movie, the box set should be .... movie discs ......

But meh...
.....

[blakdayz]

Re: DEF CON Documentary Special Edition Release Format?

....

Its not shady, just my personal policy. CD with something 'extra'... like a rootkit ..... maybe? .... but prolly not,

rewriteable media? not the most trustworthhy imho. NO one ever sent something infected out on purpose. To assume the case is fail....

On the other note... If its a movie, the box set should be .... movie discs ......

But meh...
.....

No one with good intentions.

Still...mehe