Depression

[renderman]

My name is RenderMan and I suffer from depression. I admit this because I don't want to end up following Aaron Schwartz or others who have suffered in silence. You people mean too much to me.

I started a slightly drunken twitter rant with the same admission this evening and want to extend it here in hopes of helping someone, anyone. I have struggled with depression much of my life. I have been lucky to have family that have helped me and encouraged treatment. I am hoping by being public I can help someone else.

We in the hacker community have lost to many amazing minds to mental illness. Aaron Schwartz, Len Sassaman, and unknown others. This needs to stop now!

If you are suffering as I am, tell someone. Anyone! Even if it is somone on this forum whom you've never met in person, dont suffer in silence. Hackers are family to me and can be family to you. We solve problems, that's what we do best.

There are those that may call this an attention whore move and so be it. It's attention that is sorely needed and if my being public can stop one bright mind from making a bad decision, it's worth it.

We banded together for #bloodkode and tried to hack cancer and blood diseases. Lets do the same with mental illness!

[boredsilly]

Re: Depression

It's a wise choice to open up and very brave of you to admit it. People's heart strings get tugged when someone's battling a physical challenge but they can't wrap their brain around someone who's having mental struggles. My friend's nephew suffered in silence then put a gun to his head in class (yeah, the recent one in the news) which only passed his pain on to his friends and family. Depression runs pretty solid in my family and I've had two major episodes in my lifetime that required temporary medicine to overcome. The irony was, most people thought I was happy because humor is my defense mechanism. To keep my depression in check, I finally found a protocol that works for me. I use regular intense exercise, a daily vitamin D supplement, volunteering/helping others (I help out with autistic kids and with the Special Olympics), and schedule future fun to look forward to (even if it's just drinking beer at a hot wings restaurant) to keep it in check. Suffering in silence is never a good option.

[Zorlac]

Re: Depression

I suffered with depression (undiagnosed) for about 4-5 years, partly due to a depletion of iron in my system, and partly due to environment. It was, without a doubt, the worst time of my entire life, but I am only aware of that now that I am recovering. Looking back, I have no idea how I didnt throw myself under a bus, and that scares me! Not at the time... I had no idea just how far down that deep dark hole I had gone. Its only now I understand what could have been a very serious slide into something I had never experienced before.

Before this, I had no real understanding of how bad it could get, how utterly all encompassing it is, how it controls and affects everything you do, say and think. Now I am heading towards recovery, I have a much better understanding of the issues involved, and have much more empathy towards fellow sufferers. In fact, I find it much easier to spot other sufferers, even when they are trying their very best to hide and protect themselves from being spotted.

I posted a collection of my thoughts on my facebook page a while back, collating the vague jumble of thoughts and statements that had been whirling around my head for many months. Getting all that out in a coherent way, into written words, was a great relief for me. What I wasnt expecting was the deluge of public and private messages from people I know at work and elsewhere, supporting me, and admitting that they too were a sufferer. There are far more people out there who do suffer than you can imagine. Its hidden from the rest of the world, a private hell of various levels from mild to desperate. They all need your help and understanding, but that its incredibly hard to provide as an outsider (i.e. if you havent been afflicted by depression)

most people thought I was happy because humor is my defense mechanism

Oh yes, I know this defense... works well, but eventually you only end up lying to yourself, thinking that you are not showing how bad you are, while everyone else starts seeing the cracks appearing :(

As a side note, it was DEFCON 19 (my first one) that allowed me to realize that I could actually feel happy and normal again. Getting away from my existing environment for long enough and switch to "me mode", made me a different person for a couple of weeks, and I have held onto that every day since then! Despite things in my life taking a dip between then and now, I am still far ahead of where I was pre-DEFCON 19.

Dont suffer in silence... there is no need to suffer, and you are most certainly not alone. Reach out and help those around you any way you can. and allow others to reach out to you and help.

[eris]

Re: Depression

Last night I was at a book launch party. The anthology's theme was surviving and survivors. As the emcee of the event said, "Suicide is very preventable but you must know the signs. They can't do it themselves."



Depression shouldn't be hidden. Feeling the shame of it only deepens the damage of it. It is hard for anyone with depression to truly believe "it gets better" because sometimes, it just doesn't. That's the nature of the illness. And it is incredibly difficult for someone without depression to truly understand the depths it can take you and that "just smile, it will be better!" DOESNT FUCKING WORK.

Mental illness isn't a defect. It is a treatable disease like any other. Reach out to people even if it seems no one is there. Someone is there. We are a huge community. Someone is there. Let's not lose any more brilliant minds to a preventable conclusion.


Thank you, Renderman, for "coming out."

[davien]

Re: Depression

Too many people believe that depression is just being sad, or that it's only caused by low self-esteem.

Depression is about being sad, sometimes. And some folks tell themselves terrible and untrue things because it's all they have ever known, and it's what they believe, and that does make them depressed.

But, depression is also apathy. It is waking up in the morning and not giving a single shit. It is not being ABLE to get out of bed. It is about being unable to laugh anymore, even with an absolutely blank and serene mind. It's about all of the color leaving the world.

There are biological and psychological causes of depression. Most of the time, it's a little of both.

No one should have to feel isolated. No one should have to feel like they are unable to be accepted or loved. If you feel like this, it's because you haven't found your people yet. But, keep looking.

We're here. I promise.

[ziplock]

Re: Depression

I was undiagnosed for 30 years, never found any happiness and didn't know how to find it. I went on anti-depression meds about 10 years ago and they changed my life; I'm now able to have friends, travel, and be productive. I'm not ashamed of being on the meds, but I felt an unnecessary sense of shame when I first considered discussing it with my doctor. Once the conversation started, I wished I'd done it years earlier. Help is available, and it works.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Depression

Having never suffered from depression but dated some people who have, I've always felt pretty adrift in uncertain waters with this topic. However, recently there were two entries on the Hyperbole and a Half blog/comic that did a semi-decent job of explaining depression in ways that no one else had to me before...

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.co...epression.html

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.co...-part-two.html

...if you've never read Hyperbole and a Half, i recommend it. It's rather unique, to say the least. It's a webcomic and blog that is updated only semi-regularly. Written by a cute girl named Allie who kind of fails at life but is good at making fun of herself, the whole thing is illustrated in an MS Paint kind of style and is a hoot to read.

It's also the origin of the "All the things!" meme.

[reminy]

Re: Depression

We banded together for #bloodkode and tried to hack cancer and blood diseases. Lets do the same with mental illness!

What do you have in mind? #bloodkode is people in a place doing a thing. You have the people, you have the place. What's the thing? Talk, coming out? Research, fundraising? Building a support structure for hackers on the edge, virtual community of some sort?

BTW, I only found this while looking to see if there would be #bloodkode this year -- it popped to the top of my search results. Still don't know if there is #bloodkode.

[TheCotMan]

Re: Depression

What do you have in mind? #bloodkode is people in a place doing a thing. You have the people, you have the place. What's the thing? Talk, coming out? Research, fundraising? Building a support structure for hackers on the edge, virtual community of some sort?

BTW, I only found this while looking to see if there would be #bloodkode this year -- it popped to the top of my search results. Still don't know if there is #bloodkode.

Checking http://defcne.net/e/21 , I do not see it listed. It is likely they tried to get space/allocation from someone else, and it has not yet been sync-ed with that list. I'll ask Pyr0.

[Edit: if this thread starts to fork into talk about bloodkode I'll copy related posts to a new thread.]

[Zorlac]

Re: Depression

Once the conversation started, I wished I'd done it years earlier. Help is available, and it works.

That was my breakthrough as well. In many cases, sufferers dont know that they are depressed (or could be in denial), they just deal with it and get on the best they can. I was certainly in no fit state to realize that I was depressed, it took others to make me finally realize and look at the facts. Offering help only works when the sufferer is in a position where they want to accept it, or feel less embarrassed about admiting a perceived "failure" in dealing with it themselves (even though it shouldnt be seen as a failure in any way).

We need to talk about this openly, without stigma, and make it a subject that can be mentioned freely so that people out there can ask for help, knowing that they are not alone, that whatever it is they are suffering from could be depression, and that it is no way bad to admit that you need help and guidence from those who have suffered or continue to suffer. We should also make it easier for those to approach the medical profression for help with the relevent medications and/or counsilling (sp?). A mix of one/other/both will help get a grip on this illness, and it is an illness....

For those who have never suffered, I hope you never have to experience it, I really do! It drained the life out of me, eliminated almost everything of what made me be me. I became a hollow shell of the person I used to be. I was aware it was hapenning, but had no idea why, nor what I could do to stop it. Seek the help you need before you implode on yourself. Do it for yourself and your friends/family. They are there to help, not to judge!

[TheCotMan]

Re: Depression

Checking http://defcne.net/e/21 , I do not see it listed. It is likely they tried to get space/allocation from someone else, and it has not yet been sync-ed with that list. I'll ask Pyr0.

[Edit: if this thread starts to fork into talk about bloodkode I'll copy related posts to a new thread.]

Charel says it is a go.

Forum created, Copies of posts from this thread moved there.

Please direct your BloodKode questions and posts to that thread so we can avoid highjacking of this thread.

https://forum.defcon.org/showthread.php?t=13412

[FOOk@]

Re: Depression

This is a wonderful post, thank you for sharing your thoughts, struggles, and determination.

I've had depression, of varying degrees, for most of my life. When I was a young teenager my mom took me to shrinks, put me on drugs, and claimed they had done miracles. I felt like maybe I had just grown better at hiding it, and perhaps the drugs helped more with my anger. Anger at life, anger at everything and everyone. I was a very angry, very upset person, who had no needs that weren't met, except perhaps someone who understood me and didn't want to fix me.

As I grew up I hid it much better from everyone. I am outwardly very cheerful, talkative, outgoing, but inside I cringe in awkwardness, wish I was invisible, and have wanted to die, truly and with plans, twice in my life, once as a teenager (thank god I somehow made it through that) and once as a 29 year old woman in an abusive marriage. I started cutting myself just so I could feel pain, feel anything that wasnt pure abject misery. I tried to decide gun, knife, drugs; what method would I ultimately go with. Standing in my kitchen with a butcher knife in my hands and blood pooling in the sink did something inside of me, i dont know if I'd call it "clicking" or what, but i knew it had to stop. Thankfully I divorced, and began my healing cycle, which took about 2.5 years.

What changed for me, during that healing time, was accepting who I am. I finally understand that I am not and will never be a Barbie girl, a Victoria's Secret model, a person who can stand up in front of a few or a hundred people and talk and not have my face go bright red. I will never be perfect, a genius, a model. I am just who I am. A sometimes funny, sometimes moody, mostly congenial and helpful person who at the same time can't stand most of humanity and idiots. It's a balance and its a struggle but I finally love myself. Something I had never done before.

I have an amazing husband now, a great job, two loving cats, and I'm doing things for me finally instead of always putting others first and loathing myself.

But every day I still have sadness of some kind. Every day I have negative thoughts and self hating that happens. And every time it happens I tell myself that I need to follow up that thought with something positive.

"My cellulite is fucking hideous....... But I'm happy I have legs!"
"I wish I could pick up technological things faster,....... But I'm really good at analytical thinking and getting information from people to make processes better."
"My body is breaking down and I hurt constantly, sometimes to the point of tears..... But I can move, I can strengthen my muscles, and I can live my life anyway."
And so on and so forth.

Anyway, I am not sure i will ever get to a point in my life that I don't have depression to some extent, but I am at a point that even when I think of things that suck, I cam always think of things that are wonderful and amazing and fill my heart with joy.

I know it's beet said many times and many ways, but suicide is a permanent fix to a temporary problem. It may not feel temporary, god knows my growing years didn't, my first marriage didn't, but they were temporary. And to me, when I get really down, that helps to think about.

[renderman]

Re: Depression

It's been a while and I've been quieter than usual at this point before con. I figure an update is in order

Still in rough shape. Meds are helping, but far from a quick fix.

Stresses of a job that is far from my dream and digging myself out of not-inconsiquential debt from years of underemployment have me sitting around asking what the hell I'm busting my ass for.

Depression has sapped my motivation and lust for life. I can't remember the last time I worked on a project, soldered something, did R&D. It's like I'm a ghost in my own life. Just existing but with no form. Hell, I forgot to book a room at the Rio and am now scrambling to figure out how to either geat a cheaper reservation or pay for a $1500 room tab. I want to orginize cool things for con, but cant focus or get motivated to do so. I'm most definatly not myself.

It's funny that the happiest I've been in recent years was travelling all over the world to speak at cons (thier dime, not mine) and hanging out with so many great members of my hacker family.

I'm glad that this breakdown/rant/whatever got some legs and is still being discussed. I'm sure that for every person who posted, there are 10 or even a hundred who identified with the problem and took some solice that they were not alone.

[Zorlac]

Re: Depression

Depression has sapped my motivation and lust for life

Sapping the motivation is one of the worst issues I had to deal with. I wanted to keep active, I wanted to work on projects and things, but when it came time to do it, all I could do was nothing :( I still have some battles with that now, trying to learn new things and re-learn old things that I have forgotten. Its a hard uphill battle to regain that energy that I used to have, that curiosity to try new things for the sake of just trying them, and thinking about things in lateral ways. I will get there again, I am determined to, but I know I have more important things to get fixed (or let time fix) before I can achive everything I have set my mind to do.

It's like I'm a ghost in my own life. Just existing but with no form

Existing but not living, just going through the daily motions of waking up, doing stuff, surviving another day, and going back to sleep. I totally understand that! At the time I didnt, I needed to be on the ever so slightly upward path to feeling better before I was able to look back and see just how far down that dark hole I had slipped. I found that seeing that from a slightly less dark place helped me a lot, knowing that I had been there and survived, and was able to see the improvement (no matter how small that was). Small steps is the way forward...

[astcell]

Re: Depression

As we can see from some of the comments here, it's obvious that how a person feels may not be related at all to how they act or appear. Depression can be as bad as an ax to the head, but without seeing the ax and the blood it's rather hard for some people to understand that an even worse pain really exists. And just because one person handles a situation differently does not mean everyone can.

And if I keep talking I'll use every cliche in the book. :-/

I do not have answers, red pills, or blue pills. But I have two ears and if anyone in our community wanted a sounding board or a shoulder, I'm here, FWIW. I'm sure there are others. We're not certified (but are probably certifiable) and we won't report your thoughts to any agencies or governments. Can't say the same about the phone lines though.