DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

holy shit, i'm glad to see that others had no idea of what was up with "the challenge that Black Hat wouldn't take"

i just figured that i was my usual self, far too busy to know two thirds of anything happening at DEFCON. i saw these latest threads and assumed this was one more in a long line of "new" contests that i just didn't see. and since none of the recent threads seemed to indicate a summary of what was up, i just shrugged and moved on.

so... is this real? a joke? can we assume it won't return next year? ;-)

[TheCotMan]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

so... is this real?

I ran into Pyr0 at the airport after DEF CON, and we briefly talked about this contest, at least I *think* it was this contest. Since the conversation was in public, and was in ear-shot of a few other people that attended DEF CON 21, I don't think there was any expectation of privacy...

Assuming one of the topics about a contest was about this contest, he did express an interest in seeing if anyone actually was able to beat it. (The topic of discussion may have been about another, similar contest, however, so please don't take this as authoritative.) I didn't get any sense from him on a value judgement about this contest, in favor or against it, just an expression of curiosity on outcome.

Not much else was mentioned about this contest, assuming it was this contest we were discussing, and topic of conversation changed to other topics until we had to go our separate ways.

[blakdayz]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

holy shit, i'm glad to see that others had no idea of what was up with "the challenge that Black Hat wouldn't take"

i just figured that i was my usual self, far too busy to know two thirds of anything happening at DEFCON. i saw these latest threads and assumed this was one more in a long line of "new" contests that i just didn't see. and since none of the recent threads seemed to indicate a summary of what was up, i just shrugged and moved on.

so... is this real? a joke? can we assume it won't return next year? ;-)

My opinion is that it is a complete joke. It is meant to promote a product, but the contest is intellectually dishonest. Based off reading all their patents, and taking a look at their files... it is not worth the time. Snake oil.

Just my .02.

[shrdlu]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

I ran into Pyr0 at the airport after DEF CON, and we briefly talked about this contest, at least I *think* it was this contest...

Assuming one of the topics about a contest was about this contest, he did express an interest in seeing if anyone actually was able to beat it...

I really like Pyr0. He's a great guy. In just this instance, he's wrong. Others have mentioned snake oil? I don't even think it's that good. I'm so happy to see everyone else chiming in on this, since I couldn't quite figure out why it was there, or what was going on.

The reason that "Black Hat wouldn't take it" almost certainly has to do with that snake oil stuff. At least "Diva" has quit posting; maybe she saw the conversation here? I'm tempted to send this whole thing off to Bruce S, and see if it will make the next issue of Cryptogram. It's been a long while since I've seen anything hit the Doghouse.

[Pyr0]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

I was told it was a crypto cracking challenge with a huge cash prize. They agreed that they were not going to be advertising any business or product. But as with any contest, event, or village the community's voice and opinion determines if we bring it back. I have had several people send me comments about this and at this point I think they will be welcome to return next year but only as a vendor.

[Chris]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

I was told it was a crypto cracking challenge with a huge cash prize. They agreed that they were not going to be advertising any business or product. But as with any contest, event, or village the community's voice and opinion determines if we bring it back. I have had several people send me comments about this and at this point I think they will be welcome to return next year but only as a vendor.

I'm kind of with Pyr0 on this one. What's the big deal. DEF CON has consistently tried new things. Some work. Some don't. It looks like as far as contests go, this one didn't. It's not the first mistake we've made, it won't be the last.

I'd rather us try something that fails than never give new stuff a chance.

[WiK]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

I'm kind of with Pyr0 on this one. What's the big deal. DEF CON has consistently tried new things. Some work. Some don't. It looks like as far as contests go, this one didn't. It's not the first mistake we've made, it won't be the last.

I'd rather us try something that fails than never give new stuff a chance.

I could be wrong, but I don't think any of the complaints were directed at DEF CON's selection of the contest. IMO, its all been 'this didn't work out, this is us letting you know about it'

I couldn't figure this thing out either (not that i tried very hard).

WiK

[shrdlu]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

I was told it was a crypto cracking challenge with a huge cash prize. They agreed that they were not going to be advertising any business or product. But as with any contest, event, or village the community's voice and opinion determines if we bring it back. I have had several people send me comments about this and at this point I think they will be welcome to return next year but only as a vendor.

I'm betting against them being around by next year, but that's just me, cynical and heartless.

I'm kind of with Pyr0 on this one. What's the big deal. DEF CON has consistently tried new things. Some work. Some don't. It looks like as far as contests go, this one didn't. It's not the first mistake we've made, it won't be the last.

I'd rather us try something that fails than never give new stuff a chance.

I agree with this, of course. I am troubled at the thought that you've made other mistakes. I'm *sure* that this is the first one I've heard of.

I actually miss you guys, now and then. I just don't miss the crowds, or the 10000+ attendees, or Vegas, or...

[blakdayz]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

I was told it was a crypto cracking challenge with a huge cash prize. They agreed that they were not going to be advertising any business or product. But as with any contest, event, or village the community's voice and opinion determines if we bring it back. I have had several people send me comments about this and at this point I think they will be welcome to return next year but only as a vendor.

Just to clarify - my post was in no way about the selection of them as a contest in general. I even attempted to play it (crypto is a favorite past time of mine). What I found out is that they were mainly pitching the product in the contest, and the contest was rigged to fail from the get go [the rigging is my actual complaint]. I am totally OK with them coming back as a Vendor. Of course, I wouldn't recommend you buy the product [unless they change a patent or use some other form of encryption], but that is just my opinion.

[panadero]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

I could be wrong, but I don't think any of the complaints were directed at DEF CON's selection of the contest. IMO, its all been 'this didn't work out, this is us letting you know about it'

I couldn't figure this thing out either (not that i tried very hard).

WiK

I couldn't figure it out either, and I was in that room for about 30 hours. I just know they were a little whack. He climbed on the stage with the mic and started spewing his own propaganda. Took his shoes off and was beating on one of the Humanity tables, was bizarro...

[Nikita]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

I couldn't figure it out either, and I was in that room for about 30 hours. I just know they were a little whack. He climbed on the stage with the mic and started spewing his own propaganda. Took his shoes off and was beating on one of the Humanity tables, was bizarro...

Well, between everything I have read and heard so far, plus the dudes blatant idiotic attacks agains BlakDayz, has pretty much sealed the deal for ME. I'll whisper in the right vendor & contest ears because frankly, I find it all BS and although I won't say it's up to me, it's entirely up to the department heads in those departments but I have ample opportunity to persuade them with booze and friendship to make sure these snake oil selling rude behaving trolls don't come back for dc22.

With all respect to my fellow goons of course.

[b0n3z]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

I'll whisper in the right vendor & contest ears

Don't take this as rude as it will sound, or do, but this should NEVER EVER happen! Them attacking blak I haven't seen, nor did I see anything pre defcon about them. But, as someone in the staff of defcon I don't think there is ANY place to ever throw in personal opinions about them not coming back.

Pyro seems to understand that the overall crowd that has contacted his doesn't want them as a contest. Let it just be that.

[Nikita]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

Don't take this as rude as it will sound, or do, but this should NEVER EVER happen! Them attacking blak I haven't seen, nor did I see anything pre defcon about them. But, as someone in the staff of defcon I don't think there is ANY place to ever throw in personal opinions about them not coming back.

Pyro seems to understand that the overall crowd that has contacted his doesn't want them as a contest. Let it just be that.

TL/DR I don't take it as rude, but i think you misunderstand my motivation. My OP was a little off the cuff and bravado-ish, but I'll clarify because I can see how you'd think I was being an asshat.

I've every right to inform my fellow dept heads that a contest is bunk and shouldn't return. Just as the attendees and other goons have informed him. I would expect Pyro or Agent X, etc, to come to me and inform me that a speaker was utter chav and punting BS on stage, it would persuade me to reevaluate the material after the fact, and likely weigh heavily on me if I was hearing it from more than one source too.

As I said in my OP " I'll whisper in the right vendor & contest ears because frankly, I find it all BS and although I won't say it's up to me, it's entirely up to the department heads in those departments.. " I'm respecting the nature of our relationship and not using the rumored "ermahgerd I'm nikita do as I say derp derp" reputation i've unfairly acquired. I've never thrown my weight around. Even if I joke about it like I did here, I'd never do that because I have empathy and think about how I feel if someone who didn't like me, for personal reasons, cblocked me. I've been thrown under the bus enough times that I can tell you when its time to change the oil.

To a degree I have an unfair position as being senior staff and a friend. I have more accessibility to senior staff than your average attendee , but I'm not just speaking for myself and I wouldn't. I'd be letting him know others are feeling the same way. Which was more my motive, because I see several people providing evidence in how this is a sham. I hadn't said anything because I think it's a moot point, as Pyro has been on the forums to read all this himself and since gotten plenty of feedback from other people. I've heard about this contest from others so I know he has. As for them attacking Blak, yes they did get into it and even though I would say that I do NOT have any investment in how well Blak is treated by others, I found it classless and indicative of the type of attitude we don't want in or around our family.

I've had personal reasons to HATE the ever loving SHIT out of some people and events, and I have NEVER ever EVER used my personal opinion or my "position in defcon" to an advantage to blacklist or reject their return. Even in my OWN dept, because I look at the greater good and what attendees want and enjoy, not ME. I have certain "nouns" that every year I work hard to make sure that they get 100% support from me because the attendees love the outcome and even though I most certainly think it's it crap, it's my opinion and I don't allow that to bias me from doing my job. I'd expect that you would provide feedback to your dept head, to Pyro, or to me if you saw something go down that was utter shit and not the appropriate caliber for DEF CON. I think as a goon most of us are well invested in having the best con we can, not just for ourselves but for the overall greater good.

So no, I don't take offense to your comment, it was well said and not rude. You have an excellent point if you thought I was taking a personal vendetta against someone or something and using my position as leverage. I don't do that tho and it's entirely transparent when others do and I find it BS. If that was the case I would expect another goon to say something, or at least hope they have the balls to say so and call the other goon out on it. There's really no place for that here. You thought I was, so I respect you for saying so, it's that kind of integrity i love about us as goons. I think most of us, respect each other and the massive collection of attendees we consider when we're busting our hump, to not use our position internally to our own advantage if we have a beef. I've seen countless examples of goons putting their feelings aside for the con, because the great thing about our goons is the complete dedication to doing what's best for the con as a whole.

Based on the feedback, I think this contest/vender earned a "this is not a right fit for our con", and as I said earlier, it's not up to me. Also, a moot point because I KNOW pyro has gotten this feedback from others because it made full circle and came back to me. If I'm hearing it by randoms, I know pyro already has. So I'm not going to bother because i don't like annoying people by telling them what they already know. It's up to him at this point to evaluate the feedback he's been given and decide if it's a case of sore losers or a legit case of bunk bs representation.

[Chris]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

TL/DR I don't take it as rude, but i think you misunderstand my motivation. My OP was a little off the cuff and bravado-ish, but I'll clarify because I can see how you'd think I was being an asshat.

I've every right to inform my fellow dept heads that a contest is bunk and shouldn't return. Just as the attendees and other goons have informed him. I would expect Pyro or Agent X, etc, to come to me and inform me that a speaker was utter chav and punting BS on stage, it would persuade me to reevaluate the material after the fact, and likely weigh heavily on me if I was hearing it from more than one source too.

As I said in my OP " I'll whisper in the right vendor & contest ears because frankly, I find it all BS and although I won't say it's up to me, it's entirely up to the department heads in those departments.. " I'm respecting the nature of our relationship and not using the rumored "ermahgerd I'm nikita do as I say derp derp" reputation i've unfairly acquired. I've never thrown my weight around. Even if I joke about it like I did here, I'd never do that because I have empathy and think about how I feel if someone who didn't like me, for personal reasons, cblocked me. I've been thrown under the bus enough times that I can tell you when its time to change the oil.

To a degree I have an unfair position as being senior staff and a friend. I have more accessibility to senior staff than your average attendee , but I'm not just speaking for myself and I wouldn't. I'd be letting him know others are feeling the same way. Which was more my motive, because I see several people providing evidence in how this is a sham. I hadn't said anything because I think it's a moot point, as Pyro has been on the forums to read all this himself and since gotten plenty of feedback from other people. I've heard about this contest from others so I know he has. As for them attacking Blak, yes they did get into it and even though I would say that I do NOT have any investment in how well Blak is treated by others, I found it classless and indicative of the type of attitude we don't want in or around our family.

I've had personal reasons to HATE the ever loving SHIT out of some people and events, and I have NEVER ever EVER used my personal opinion or my "position in defcon" to an advantage to blacklist or reject their return. Even in my OWN dept, because I look at the greater good and what attendees want and enjoy, not ME. I have certain "nouns" that every year I work hard to make sure that they get 100% support from me because the attendees love the outcome and even though I most certainly think it's it crap, it's my opinion and I don't allow that to bias me from doing my job. I'd expect that you would provide feedback to your dept head, to Pyro, or to me if you saw something go down that was utter shit and not the appropriate caliber for DEF CON. I think as a goon most of us are well invested in having the best con we can, not just for ourselves but for the overall greater good.

So no, I don't take offense to your comment, it was well said and not rude. You have an excellent point if you thought I was taking a personal vendetta against someone or something and using my position as leverage. I don't do that tho and it's entirely transparent when others do and I find it BS. If that was the case I would expect another goon to say something, or at least hope they have the balls to say so and call the other goon out on it. There's really no place for that here. You thought I was, so I respect you for saying so, it's that kind of integrity i love about us as goons. I think most of us, respect each other and the massive collection of attendees we consider when we're busting our hump, to not use our position internally to our own advantage if we have a beef. I've seen countless examples of goons putting their feelings aside for the con, because the great thing about our goons is the complete dedication to doing what's best for the con as a whole.

Based on the feedback, I think this contest/vender earned a "this is not a right fit for our con", and as I said earlier, it's not up to me. Also, a moot point because I KNOW pyro has gotten this feedback from others because it made full circle and came back to me. If I'm hearing it by randoms, I know pyro already has. So I'm not going to bother because i don't like annoying people by telling them what they already know. It's up to him at this point to evaluate the feedback he's been given and decide if it's a case of sore losers or a legit case of bunk bs representation.

When I was running the vendor area I welcomed feedback from anyone about vendors we had. If they sucked I wanted to know. Like Nikita said though, in the end I made the decision on if they were coming back but getting the feedback from others (both attendee and staff) was very valuable to me.

[b0n3z]

Re: DEF CON 21: Thanks Yous, Fuck Yous, and honorable mentions...

TL/DR I don't take it as rude, but i think you misunderstand my motivation. My OP was a little off the cuff and bravado-ish, but I'll clarify because I can see how you'd think I was being an asshat.

I've every right to inform my fellow dept heads that a contest is bunk and shouldn't return. Just as the attendees and other goons have informed him. I would expect Pyro or Agent X, etc, to come to me and inform me that a speaker was utter chav and punting BS on stage, it would persuade me to reevaluate the material after the fact, and likely weigh heavily on me if I was hearing it from more than one source too.

As I said in my OP " I'll whisper in the right vendor & contest ears because frankly, I find it all BS and although I won't say it's up to me, it's entirely up to the department heads in those departments.. " I'm respecting the nature of our relationship and not using the rumored "ermahgerd I'm nikita do as I say derp derp" reputation i've unfairly acquired. I've never thrown my weight around. Even if I joke about it like I did here, I'd never do that because I have empathy and think about how I feel if someone who didn't like me, for personal reasons, cblocked me. I've been thrown under the bus enough times that I can tell you when its time to change the oil.

To a degree I have an unfair position as being senior staff and a friend. I have more accessibility to senior staff than your average attendee , but I'm not just speaking for myself and I wouldn't. I'd be letting him know others are feeling the same way. Which was more my motive, because I see several people providing evidence in how this is a sham. I hadn't said anything because I think it's a moot point, as Pyro has been on the forums to read all this himself and since gotten plenty of feedback from other people. I've heard about this contest from others so I know he has. As for them attacking Blak, yes they did get into it and even though I would say that I do NOT have any investment in how well Blak is treated by others, I found it classless and indicative of the type of attitude we don't want in or around our family.

I've had personal reasons to HATE the ever loving SHIT out of some people and events, and I have NEVER ever EVER used my personal opinion or my "position in defcon" to an advantage to blacklist or reject their return. Even in my OWN dept, because I look at the greater good and what attendees want and enjoy, not ME. I have certain "nouns" that every year I work hard to make sure that they get 100% support from me because the attendees love the outcome and even though I most certainly think it's it crap, it's my opinion and I don't allow that to bias me from doing my job. I'd expect that you would provide feedback to your dept head, to Pyro, or to me if you saw something go down that was utter shit and not the appropriate caliber for DEF CON. I think as a goon most of us are well invested in having the best con we can, not just for ourselves but for the overall greater good.

So no, I don't take offense to your comment, it was well said and not rude. You have an excellent point if you thought I was taking a personal vendetta against someone or something and using my position as leverage. I don't do that tho and it's entirely transparent when others do and I find it BS. If that was the case I would expect another goon to say something, or at least hope they have the balls to say so and call the other goon out on it. There's really no place for that here. You thought I was, so I respect you for saying so, it's that kind of integrity i love about us as goons. I think most of us, respect each other and the massive collection of attendees we consider when we're busting our hump, to not use our position internally to our own advantage if we have a beef. I've seen countless examples of goons putting their feelings aside for the con, because the great thing about our goons is the complete dedication to doing what's best for the con as a whole.

Based on the feedback, I think this contest/vender earned a "this is not a right fit for our con", and as I said earlier, it's not up to me. Also, a moot point because I KNOW pyro has gotten this feedback from others because it made full circle and came back to me. If I'm hearing it by randoms, I know pyro already has. So I'm not going to bother because i don't like annoying people by telling them what they already know. It's up to him at this point to evaluate the feedback he's been given and decide if it's a case of sore losers or a legit case of bunk bs representation.

THIS is more of a TL/DR (I had to look that up >.<). As for your explanation, thank you and good to know!

When I was running the vendor area I welcomed feedback from anyone about vendors we had. If they sucked I wanted to know. Like Nikita said though, in the end I made the decision on if they were coming back but getting the feedback from others (both attendee and staff) was very valuable to me.

Very good to know Chris thanks.