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  • HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

    Now that DC 22 and HHV #7 is over we need feed back.

    This year we had a circuit bending hands-on workshop, a wtfpga hands on workshop and a Intel minnow board presentation and hands on demo.

    I know there was a shortage of kits as no vendors were selling any. This year we chose not to sell due to a electronic badge so its up in the air for next year if I will have a vendor table as I have to see what the costs are as it all comes out of my pocket.

    I know space was tight at times but we utilized 110% of our space and had 24 soldering stations running all weekend. Next year I think that will be resolved. (fingers crossed for the return of the HHV in a dedicated space)

    So please visit our blog http://www.dchhv.org/blog/ and give us feed back or you can do it here but next year we are looking to move beyond "intro to soldering" and have some contest ideas as well as dedicated workshops.

    So let me know what you liked or hated about the HHV so we can continue to improve and serve you, the DC attendees better.

    My personal highlight was the very young kids learning how to build kits. New record set a 5 year old girl completed a Larsen scanner and had a blast! A total of 26 kits were given out to kids and a additional 12 were given to adults with a great story on why they deserved a kit to learn on. Once again could not give to all as it all is paid for by me so there is limited funds so it pays to have a great story or convince me to give you one... that's a part of DC right... social engineering!!

    ~Bombnav

    Once again thanks for a great HHV and a great DC!!

  • #2
    Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

    Thanks for putting up with us again, bomb : )

    dg
    [mfp]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

      Originally posted by datagram View Post
      Thanks for putting up with us again, bomb : )

      dg
      [mfp]
      I think we need a divorce LOL next year with the added space I hope all villages are in dedicated spaces. This year the room was packed beyond capacity.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

        In short: crowded but well organized. The table right by the door with the constant help was a great idea for n00bs and kids. I also liked the source pile, and material could be collected starting now. Similarly, I took my son to r00tz Asylum and their salvage yard was a great place to grab connectors, speakers and sensors. Maybe a similar tear-down table would be welcome? Bulk purchase from local thrift shops could be a quick source of a variety of parts.

        I volunteered at the request of SYN Shop, but I didn't feel like I did much other than sit behind the Help sign. Squeezing between tables was a non-starter. A bigger floor will probably help this as volunteers could roam and help as needed, clean spots, and return detritus to the source pile. Over and over, people asked about replacing, fixing or swapping the surface mount LEDs on their badges. Can we get a bucket of components for emergency repairs? Skilled staff would dole it out to those in need.

        And now for the elephant in the room: KITS. What better method to replace irons, populate the source pile and replenish kits for next year? This is how Toxic BBQ is done. DCDarknet sold badges in the room, and Larsen Scanners were given away on site. People are waiting to give you their money to have a piece of flair to add to their badge. I'm sure the vendor coordinator has been contacted in the past, but it was a new guy running it this year. Did any retailers show interest yet got shut out? Alternatively, can we reach out to retailers now and express our needs? Pololu is in Vegas; Sparkfun is up I-70 in Denver. Surely we can get someone to participate.

        Next year's badge will be non-electronic, but we might start identifying kits to mod this year's badge. Hackerstickers will probably sell reproductions soon, so they are not likely to go away. It might be good to identify clever badge hacks and work with a retailer to package and sell the components to mod your badge on site. This was done with the Laser Tag mod to the DC20 badge and sold from the Scavenger Hunt booth. Who wouldn't want to build the quad copter badge that was floating around on the last day? Kits might range in difficulty from simple to hard (i.e.: Replacement LEDs, Flair powered by the badge, or a reprogrammable 4x8 matrix of LEDs). The mantra would be "Buy it, Build It, Hack It" instead of just "Soldering is like Lego!"

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

          I'm a member of Synshop and I was at HHV for much of (my first) DEFCON helping people with what I could while working on my projects.

          Other than bad/missing/broken LEDS I saw many people with badges that did not work at all. Some of which were bad when received. I fixed at least a dozen badges and I know there were others in the room fixing them as well. Most of ones that I fixed had the lower right diode chip fail and the badge would only power via USB power. It would have been nice to have a supply of components as Tangential stated or at least a component list for the badges ahead of time so I could have ordered them to have on hand. I was able to make a few peoples DEFCON a little better by 'fixing' their badge by bypassing the diodes. I did of course tell them to remove the batteries before plugging into the usb port to avoid letting any magic smoke out of their equipment.

          The size of the HHV this year was definitely too small. For most of DEFCON the room was overcrowded.. I am not sure how big it was in the past as this was my first Defcon. Hopefully at next years defcon we get a bigger room since we are going from 175,000 to 315,000 sq feet.. ;)

          With a bigger HHV I think there would be much more collaboration and teaching than happened this year as for the most part there was barely enough room to breath let alone walk around and see if anyone needed any help. Many people who wanted to work on hacking the defcon badge, assembling the darknet badge or other project simply left as there was no room at the soldering stations. We could have easily used double the space and soldering equipment at peek times. From 11am to 6pm from that I recall the HHV soldering stations were completely filled. I shared another synshop members soldering station that he brought from home at the Synshop table.

          What HHV lacked other than space was someone to coordinate with a clear picture of everything going on in the room. A mayor so to speak, preferably a goon. I think there were some people in charge of this or that but no one 100% in charge of the village and there all the time.


          Originally posted by Tangential View Post
          In short: crowded but well organized. The table right by the door with the constant help was a great idea for n00bs and kids. I also liked the source pile, and material could be collected starting now. Similarly, I took my son to r00tz Asylum and their salvage yard was a great place to grab connectors, speakers and sensors. Maybe a similar tear-down table would be welcome? Bulk purchase from local thrift shops could be a quick source of a variety of parts.

          I volunteered at the request of SYN Shop, but I didn't feel like I did much other than sit behind the Help sign. Squeezing between tables was a non-starter. A bigger floor will probably help this as volunteers could roam and help as needed, clean spots, and return detritus to the source pile. Over and over, people asked about replacing, fixing or swapping the surface mount LEDs on their badges. Can we get a bucket of components for emergency repairs? Skilled staff would dole it out to those in need.

          And now for the elephant in the room: KITS. What better method to replace irons, populate the source pile and replenish kits for next year? This is how Toxic BBQ is done. DCDarknet sold badges in the room, and Larsen Scanners were given away on site. People are waiting to give you their money to have a piece of flair to add to their badge. I'm sure the vendor coordinator has been contacted in the past, but it was a new guy running it this year. Did any retailers show interest yet got shut out? Alternatively, can we reach out to retailers now and express our needs? Pololu is in Vegas; Sparkfun is up I-70 in Denver. Surely we can get someone to participate.

          Next year's badge will be non-electronic, but we might start identifying kits to mod this year's badge. Hackerstickers will probably sell reproductions soon, so they are not likely to go away. It might be good to identify clever badge hacks and work with a retailer to package and sell the components to mod your badge on site. This was done with the Laser Tag mod to the DC20 badge and sold from the Scavenger Hunt booth. Who wouldn't want to build the quad copter badge that was floating around on the last day? Kits might range in difficulty from simple to hard (i.e.: Replacement LEDs, Flair powered by the badge, or a reprogrammable 4x8 matrix of LEDs). The mantra would be "Buy it, Build It, Hack It" instead of just "Soldering is like Lego!"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

            Yea, the space issue was certainly a problem, but we made it work. It would be nice to space out the tables a bit to make it easier for people to get through and help with soldering. Shouldn't be a problem with more space being available next year, but it gives you ammo to demand it.

            The table of parts was a great idea. I didn't have a chance to browse through it, but I did throw a few things in there.

            I would love to see some mini-contests in the HHV. Soldering contests would be fun. Say a board that starts with through hole and then SMD, and then smaller SMD, etc.. Tested for functionality and looks by a panel of judges. (I would volunteer to help judge something like that)
            perl -e 's==UBER?=+y[:-o]}(;->\n{q-yp-y+k}?print:??;-p#)'

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

              What about prototyping boards? That could be fun. I have used the toner transfer method and come up with boards with enough resolution/detail that you could easily mount SMD's on it. Altho its been YEARS since I did it those skills/techniques would not be hard to freshen up.

              Altho I think possibly the hotel might frown on ferric chloride orange stains on everything so that would be an issue.. Maybe do a live demonstration or video?

              -Thor

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

                Thanks Bombnav for having us from SYN Shop!
                Suggestions... These are spit-balled out of my consciousness...

                - Maybe a larger volunteer force coordination force, with folks from multiple Hackerspaces.

                - A larger "Help" and other signs, would be nice - some people didn't know we were there.

                - I dunno how this gets done, but a barrier to entry for some folks locally was a badge to the con.

                - As mentioned before, kits were a problem too.
                - - Maybe a partnership with an actual retailer (Sparkfun comes to mind as they have already shown a willingness to help out, or Polulu, as they are local to Vegas)

                Originally posted by krux View Post
                Yea, the space issue was certainly a problem, but we made it work. It would be nice to space out the tables a bit to make it easier for people to get through and help with soldering. Shouldn't be a problem with more space being available next year, but it gives you ammo to demand it.
                - ... not much to add, other than that I am a big man, I am still amazed I got my ass in between some of those tables.

                Originally posted by krux View Post
                The table of parts was a great idea. I didn't have a chance to browse through it, but I did throw a few things in there.
                - SYN Shop or local folks may have stuff to donate for the tear down table. Maybe putting out a call for tear down donations? too
                - Spare parts readily accessible for the DC Darknet or similar kits?

                Originally posted by krux View Post
                I would love to see some mini-contests in the HHV. Soldering contests would be fun. Say a board that starts with through hole and then SMD, and then smaller SMD, etc.. Tested for functionality and looks by a panel of judges. (I would volunteer to help judge something like that)
                - Another thought is a "work on the badge duplication challenge" area.

                - This idea was floated in the SYN Shop Message boards: a central clearing house for talks / events scheduled at each village would be nice. I know that can be difficult prior to, but would definitely assist the attendees.

                - a more frequent "learn to solder" discussion early and midway through the days. Not to toot my own horn, but there seemed to be a *lot* of people interested in it. When I first found out I got bumped from my times, and reschedule from Friday to Saturday, I had 4 people ask me if I could "just do it in the hallway real quick" on Friday which is why I just started shouting it and showing it off on my laptop at the SYN Shop table.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

                  Originally posted by Thor View Post
                  What about prototyping boards? That could be fun. I have used the toner transfer method and come up with boards with enough resolution/detail that you could easily mount SMD's on it. Altho its been YEARS since I did it those skills/techniques would not be hard to freshen up.

                  Altho I think possibly the hotel might frown on ferric chloride orange stains on everything so that would be an issue.. Maybe do a live demonstration or video?

                  -Thor
                  There are a couple other types of acids which don't stain like ferric chloride does. I use Sodium Persulfate which is clear.
                  perl -e 's==UBER?=+y[:-o]}(;->\n{q-yp-y+k}?print:??;-p#)'

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

                    Originally posted by krux View Post
                    There are a couple other types of acids which don't stain like ferric chloride does. I use Sodium Persulfate which is clear.
                    Doesn't necessarily need to be a chemical etching process. Maybe we could get DC to get the HHV a simple PCB mill? Or maybe we can location someone who owns one and is willing to let it be used/sit in the HHV helping people bring simple designs to life?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

                      ColoQ I wanted to personally thank you for the outstanding talks you gave and the time and effort you put in!! It was great working with you.

                      I am collecting ideas with the hope next year space will not longer be a issue and I want like you said more hacker spaces setting up a presence. This year we pretty much packed every inch of our space. I like you idea of regular rotating soldering talks. I hope to have the full presentation schedule available to us.

                      We will be talking throughout the year as I want your involvement and ideas for next year.

                      Originally posted by ColoQ View Post
                      Thanks Bombnav for having us from SYN Shop!
                      Suggestions... These are spit-balled out of my consciousness...

                      - Maybe a larger volunteer force coordination force, with folks from multiple Hackerspaces.

                      - A larger "Help" and other signs, would be nice - some people didn't know we were there.

                      - I dunno how this gets done, but a barrier to entry for some folks locally was a badge to the con.

                      - As mentioned before, kits were a problem too.
                      - - Maybe a partnership with an actual retailer (Sparkfun comes to mind as they have already shown a willingness to help out, or Polulu, as they are local to Vegas)


                      - ... not much to add, other than that I am a big man, I am still amazed I got my ass in between some of those tables.


                      - SYN Shop or local folks may have stuff to donate for the tear down table. Maybe putting out a call for tear down donations? too
                      - Spare parts readily accessible for the DC Darknet or similar kits?



                      - Another thought is a "work on the badge duplication challenge" area.

                      - This idea was floated in the SYN Shop Message boards: a central clearing house for talks / events scheduled at each village would be nice. I know that can be difficult prior to, but would definitely assist the attendees.

                      - a more frequent "learn to solder" discussion early and midway through the days. Not to toot my own horn, but there seemed to be a *lot* of people interested in it. When I first found out I got bumped from my times, and reschedule from Friday to Saturday, I had 4 people ask me if I could "just do it in the hallway real quick" on Friday which is why I just started shouting it and showing it off on my laptop at the SYN Shop table.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

                        Originally posted by krux View Post
                        Yea, the space issue was certainly a problem, but we made it work. It would be nice to space out the tables a bit to make it easier for people to get through and help with soldering. Shouldn't be a problem with more space being available next year, but it gives you ammo to demand it.

                        The table of parts was a great idea. I didn't have a chance to browse through it, but I did throw a few things in there.

                        I would love to see some mini-contests in the HHV. Soldering contests would be fun. Say a board that starts with through hole and then SMD, and then smaller SMD, etc.. Tested for functionality and looks by a panel of judges. (I would volunteer to help judge something like that)
                        There will be contests next year and we are floating some ideas and if you have some please PM me as the HHV needs to be a community effort. Yes I will be demanding more space!! We def used what we were given and I think it was noticed that we were hopping the entire con!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

                          This was the smallest space we have had since the Riv. I was the Goon in charge so to speak and trust me I have learned that HHV kinda has a life of its own. It just does not work having it run like a hackerspace, it works best free form. With that said the smaller space amplified the chaos.




                          Originally posted by Thor View Post
                          I'm a member of Synshop and I was at HHV for much of (my first) DEFCON helping people with what I could while working on my projects.

                          Other than bad/missing/broken LEDS I saw many people with badges that did not work at all. Some of which were bad when received. I fixed at least a dozen badges and I know there were others in the room fixing them as well. Most of ones that I fixed had the lower right diode chip fail and the badge would only power via USB power. It would have been nice to have a supply of components as Tangential stated or at least a component list for the badges ahead of time so I could have ordered them to have on hand. I was able to make a few peoples DEFCON a little better by 'fixing' their badge by bypassing the diodes. I did of course tell them to remove the batteries before plugging into the usb port to avoid letting any magic smoke out of their equipment.

                          The size of the HHV this year was definitely too small. For most of DEFCON the room was overcrowded.. I am not sure how big it was in the past as this was my first Defcon. Hopefully at next years defcon we get a bigger room since we are going from 175,000 to 315,000 sq feet.. ;)

                          With a bigger HHV I think there would be much more collaboration and teaching than happened this year as for the most part there was barely enough room to breath let alone walk around and see if anyone needed any help. Many people who wanted to work on hacking the defcon badge, assembling the darknet badge or other project simply left as there was no room at the soldering stations. We could have easily used double the space and soldering equipment at peek times. From 11am to 6pm from that I recall the HHV soldering stations were completely filled. I shared another synshop members soldering station that he brought from home at the Synshop table.

                          What HHV lacked other than space was someone to coordinate with a clear picture of everything going on in the room. A mayor so to speak, preferably a goon. I think there were some people in charge of this or that but no one 100% in charge of the village and there all the time.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

                            Kits are already in work. DC 21 I sold kits but on electronic badge years I don't sell as that is my concentration. I did talk to a vendor that deiced to not sell for what ever reason so next year I will do better at talking to the vendor goon to see if any kits are available.



                            Originally posted by Tangential View Post
                            In short: crowded but well organized. The table right by the door with the constant help was a great idea for n00bs and kids. I also liked the source pile, and material could be collected starting now. Similarly, I took my son to r00tz Asylum and their salvage yard was a great place to grab connectors, speakers and sensors. Maybe a similar tear-down table would be welcome? Bulk purchase from local thrift shops could be a quick source of a variety of parts.

                            I volunteered at the request of SYN Shop, but I didn't feel like I did much other than sit behind the Help sign. Squeezing between tables was a non-starter. A bigger floor will probably help this as volunteers could roam and help as needed, clean spots, and return detritus to the source pile. Over and over, people asked about replacing, fixing or swapping the surface mount LEDs on their badges. Can we get a bucket of components for emergency repairs? Skilled staff would dole it out to those in need.

                            And now for the elephant in the room: KITS. What better method to replace irons, populate the source pile and replenish kits for next year? This is how Toxic BBQ is done. DCDarknet sold badges in the room, and Larsen Scanners were given away on site. People are waiting to give you their money to have a piece of flair to add to their badge. I'm sure the vendor coordinator has been contacted in the past, but it was a new guy running it this year. Did any retailers show interest yet got shut out? Alternatively, can we reach out to retailers now and express our needs? Pololu is in Vegas; Sparkfun is up I-70 in Denver. Surely we can get someone to participate.

                            Next year's badge will be non-electronic, but we might start identifying kits to mod this year's badge. Hackerstickers will probably sell reproductions soon, so they are not likely to go away. It might be good to identify clever badge hacks and work with a retailer to package and sell the components to mod your badge on site. This was done with the Laser Tag mod to the DC20 badge and sold from the Scavenger Hunt booth. Who wouldn't want to build the quad copter badge that was floating around on the last day? Kits might range in difficulty from simple to hard (i.e.: Replacement LEDs, Flair powered by the badge, or a reprogrammable 4x8 matrix of LEDs). The mantra would be "Buy it, Build It, Hack It" instead of just "Soldering is like Lego!"

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: HHV #7 is over and we need feedback!!

                              I only occasionally popped into the HHV this year. I was mostly there because it was the only source of table space with power outside the Contest area. I didn't spend much time because it was super duper cramped -- there were about 1.5x the number of table slots over on the Tamper Evident side than could reasonably fit.

                              Just my $0.02.

                              Comment

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