webgirl panel

[ironfeather`]

heyza!

i wanted to toss an idea to the lions...

last year at interz0ne (atlanta), Sherrod organized a "webcamgirl" panel which featured about 6 women who spoke about their skills, their webcams, why they showed off, did they showoff nude, etc.

My wife spoke on the panel and now she is organizing one for rubi-con (detroit)... So we shall see how it goes this march, so far she has 3 other women speaking with her (all run adult websites featuring themselves)...

anyways, would this work at defcon? it has nothing to do with security or what defcon is about, but could be an interesting small side room speech with Q&A. or is that T&A?

let us know, if people are interested we can propose it to DT.

anyone here going to rubi-con?

have a wicked 2003 & happy hogmanay!

stevyn

PS: read our review of interz0ne at:
http://ironfeather.com/interz0ne

[mfreeck]

Re: webgirl panel

Originally posted by ironfeather`
last year at interz0ne (atlanta), Sherrod organized a "webcamgirl" panel which featured about 6 women who spoke about their skills

Great idea! We can have a focus on female geeks since sometimes they get lost in the midst of the guys and scenewhores.

why they showed off, did they showoff nude, etc.
[...]3 other women speaking with her (all run adult websites featuring themselves)[...]with Q&A. or is that T&A?

Oh wait, it's just another pathetic excuse for you to see some boobies, since it's the only chance you have, unless you can scrape up funds to afford a hooker. But wait... you're married. That must be why you want to couch it as a "talk."

[octalpus]

How is this a "skill"? Women who don't eat sit in front of a camera, taunt men, and get said horny men to buy them things. While it is certainly admireable that they have found an asset they can exploit, I'd hardly call it a skill. Use what you have, get your your little power trip from it, but don't expect me to give credit for "skill".

[Gadsden]

(Thumbs down icon given only because there is not a "Chris giving the finger" icon)

I have to agree with Octal.. how the hell is this a skill and what the fuck does this have to do with Defcon?

[noid]

First Stevyn, where were you at Defcon 10? Seeing you and Hanna is one of the few enjoyable things for me at Defcon..missed you guys this year


As far as the webcamgirl thing goes, I say no..Last years Defcon was nice..I noticed the tide turning back from the 'lets take drugs and sit in the sun' crowd to the 'lets go to the conference and learn things, then get loaded' crowd. This would be a step backwards. That and on a personal level, I dont like the 'I have boobies, look at me..HEY EVERYBODY LOOK AT ME I HAVE BOOBIES' mentality most of the female attendees already bring to the table. To reward that behavior would wrong on our part.

[ironfeather`]

heyza

In defense of the women that spoke, all the women at interz0ne were hackers or at least super geeked babes.

as for skills, they chatted about their *nix boxes, projects they were developing for work & fun, etc as well as weird requests, stalkers, etc. for an example check out Sherrod's personal page (who organized it):

http://www.girlvinyl.com/

anyways, so far its looking like overwhelming "no" which is fine with us, it was just an idea. :)

Tho I was not there this year to see the difference in attitudes, etc. I do have to agree with Noid that defcon would be better if people focused on the talks & learning rather than party & being silly. So I won't follow this idea any further for defcon.

Noid, shouts! It has always been awesome to see ya at defcon and we missed you and everyone last year but we will see you this year for sure! We have been snowed in Michigan but digging our way out and summering in Colorado 2003 thus closer to vegas land. We met V1ru5 at interz0ne and hope he passed on our greets to ya! Stay cool brother!

[mfreeck]

Originally posted by noid
That and on a personal level, I dont like the 'I have boobies, look at me..HEY EVERYBODY LOOK AT ME I HAVE BOOBIES' mentality most of the female attendees already bring to the table.

I agree that most of the women at DC do have this mentality. If you truly want to get away from some of that, you might think about ways to attract the females who do not have that attitude. They are out there, they just don't attend Defcon. If I'd had to go alone last year, I probably wouldn't've made it.

[noid]

I agree that most of the women at DC do have this mentality. If you truly want to get away from some of that, you might think about ways to attract the females who do not have that attitude. They are out there, they just don't attend Defcon. If I'd had to go alone last year, I probably wouldn't've made it.

Since you are a girl and have skills, do you have any suggestions?

[mfreeck]

Originally posted by ironfeather`
all the women at interz0ne were hackers or at least super geeked babes.[...]as for skills, they chatted about their *nix boxes, projects they were developing for work & fun, etc

I guess my question is why it needed to be sex oriented? There's plenty of women doing interesting things, why does it have to be sexually oriented if there are females involved? I think a women's panel could be pretty cool, but not if it's focused on sex.

[noid]

I guess my question is why it needed to be sex oriented? There's plenty of women doing interesting things, why does it have to be sexually oriented if there are females involved? I think a women's panel could be pretty cool, but not if it's focused on sex.

Exactly..A few years back Bad Kitty had suggested doing a geek girl panel, but it was abandoned due to lack of interest..Now there are more geek girls attending, but they get lost in the noise..The trick would be to not only find out how to attract more geek girls, but how to discourage the scenewhores from attending.

[mfreeck]

Originally posted by noid
The trick would be to not only find out how to attract more geek girls, but how to discourage the scenewhores from attending.

I don't think there's any real way to screen out a scenewhore so much as to make the atmosphere more friendly for geek girls. When the balance tilts enough, the effect of the scenewhores will be at least minimized, and possibly even reduce their ranks. It can only get better from here.

[mfreeck]

Originally posted by noid
Since you are a girl and have skills, do you have any suggestions?

I like the idea of a female panel. Find ways to recognize females for their brains. There are plenty events (official and unofficial) to celebrate boobs already. Counter it a little. Scenewhores are essentially attention-whores. If the attention shifts to those who achieve things or want to learn, it should help.

[octalpus]

My view is probably very unpopular, but here it is...

Drawing attention to female attendees by making a "panel" or something to that effect, highliting women simply for being women, rather than for their specific combined achievements, is futile. No matter what you call it, no matter what you are trying to draw attention to, they are going to get criticism, and they're going to be treated as sexual objects.

For example, there were female members on several of the Hacker Jeopardy teams. However, when one team was all female, the crowd suddenly became a bunch of hormonally challenged neanderthals, feeding them the answers, and encouraging them to show their breasts. This team got the harshest criticism, of course, even though all the teams were drunk and disorderly.

No one notices the females that *aren't* banding together, or drawing attention to themselves. Personally, I don't think that's a bad thing. I saw them, and if you look hard enough, you'll see them too. The ones who are really interested will participate. When they do, they'll take a look around, and realise that they're not alone.

[mfreeck]

Originally posted by octalpussy
Drawing attention to female attendees by making a "panel" or something to that effect, highliting women simply for being women, rather than for their specific combined achievements, is futile.

That's why it should be about specific achievements.

For example, there were female members on several of the Hacker Jeopardy teams. However, when one team was all female, the crowd suddenly became a bunch of hormonally challenged neanderthals, feeding them the answers, and encouraging them to show their breasts. This team got the harshest criticism, of course, even though all the teams were drunk and disorderly.

This would be why I walked out of HJ, besides not being able to "sit" on a chair for more than 10 mins.

No one notices the females that *aren't* banding together, or drawing attention to themselves. Personally, I don't think that's a bad thing. I saw them, and if you look hard enough, you'll see them too. The ones who are really interested will participate. When they do, they'll take a look around, and realise that they're not alone.

Good to know that invisibility is a desired quality.

[octalpus]

Originally posted by mfreeck


That's why it should be about specific achievements.
[/B]

Great. Have a "meet the coders" panel... or a wardrivers panel... or a cryptography panel, and do your darndest to find intelligent women to be on it... I just don't like the idea of a women's panel, where their crowning acheivement is that they're women. Women who foo, sure... but you're still singling them out for being women. I'd rather see a panel of people, which happens to include several women. That, to me, show's that women are part of the scene. Plus, you wouldn't get people showing up just looking to gawk.