Cybernetics and Evolution

[pezz]

Given the theoretical abundance of complexity and control, when we as humans have mastered integration of systems theory with human evolution (a constant):
1. ) Do you think that humans can create a self evolving race utilizing “microchips”? And, 2.) If so, do you think that biomechanical organisms are a possibility?
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/CYBSWHAT.html

[converge]

Well... most humans are still having trouble mastering the VCR... so that when is a big unqualified when

1 ) Of course
2 ) Once #1 is accomplished, isn't that a given?

These "humans" you speak of cannot cope with the current number of races, let alone artificially creating new ones. I vote that we are more likely to blow the shit out of ourselves before we even figure out the whole cloning thing...

[Fused]

good point.

[pezz]

That "when" is closer than you think...it matters not to me if my doctor can program his vcr....thats not the knowledge I pay for when he removes my appendix.

[astcell]

Originally posted by pezz
That "when" is closer than you think...it matters not to me if my doctor can program his vcr....thats not the knowledge I pay for when he removes my appendix.

Good point. I no more expect a doctor to understand TCP/IP and SMTP any more than I understand renin or hepatocellular.

[Kry0NiK]

No and No.

Adding chips doesnt make a new species incapable of breeding with its non-modified counterpart. Secondly, we already are bio-mechanical organisms. We just dont have the schematic.

[KeLviN]

i follow alot of the AI stuff and i am being increasingly convinced that the concept of "self aware" hardware is much further away than we assume. the best way to do it would be the insanely difficult way that it happens in real life. write a self repeating set of code and dedicate a million years and a 100 billion gigs to the cause. let the code error and mutate and develope on its own. the short way of programming a code to just "recognise that it's own code exists" is hella difficult.
i think we have all the hardware and processing power necessary, it's the right code that we need to create.

p.s. we can allready remote control cockroaches by installing shit in it's head. it's been done!

[Kry0NiK]

Originally posted by KeLviN

p.s. we can allready remote control cockroaches by installing shit in it's head. it's been done!

Thats true, and we can do that to some extent with human muscles also. But stimulating nerves with electrical impulses is a far cry from AI.

[KeLviN]

Originally posted by Kry0NiK
Thats true, and we can do that to some extent with human muscles also. But stimulating nerves with electrical impulses is a far cry from AI.

but it's still fun......................

[astcell]

Yea, like if you shock a dead squirrel he still moves....

[converge]

Originally posted by pezz
it matters not to me if my doctor can program his vcr....thats not the knowledge I pay for when he removes my appendix.

Correct, it is not necessary for all to be masters of the universe for specialized advancement to occur. What I meant to point out was.. how can a civilization barely able to understand and cope with closed architecture systems like PCs, let alone each other... how can they be expected to adequately receive such open technology and concepts. We can't get past the DNA voodoo boogeyman to even let scientists openly play with that.

If we were that far along on understanding the physiology required, we would have cured some of the decade old illnesses that plague the planet.. what was the last one they figured out, polio? We don't know the human body as much as we think we do, or like to claim we do. Maybe the 50 contradicting diet "plans" out there could serve as an example of that... and that's something as little as controlling weight / body fat. One day something causes cancer, the next day its a miracle cure.

[astcell]

I think we can still advance because, well, look at us as parts of an organism. Don't expect the foot to be a hand, and vice versa. We all contribute our best and help each other through the door to the next phase of life....

[pezz]

Originally posted by c0nv3r9
Correct, it is not necessary for all to be masters of the universe for specialized advancement to occur. What I meant to point out was.. how can a civilization barely able to understand and cope with closed architecture systems like PCs, let alone each other... how can they be expected to adequately receive such open technology and concepts. We can't get past the DNA voodoo boogeyman to even let scientists openly play with that.

If we were that far along on understanding the physiology required, we would have cured some of the decade old illnesses that plague the planet.. what was the last one they figured out, polio? We don't know the human body as much as we think we do, or like to claim we do. Maybe the 50 contradicting diet "plans" out there could serve as an example of that... and that's something as little as controlling weight / body fat. One day something causes cancer, the next day its a miracle cure.

True, but let me point this out. At one point we did not understand the human genome. Now we have a map. Strictly speaking about the U.S., Do you realize that weight loss is a billion dollar a year business, EVEN for quack treatments. Same applies to medicine, (aids, cancer, etc...)

Billions of dollars spent by insurance companies, patients, etc...

With the emphasis our society places on monetary gain, isnt it easy to fathom that a group of researchers might provide a cure for aids only to have it snapped up by those whos interest is in monetary gain? ex.. "Its bad for business!"
That is true with the invention of the carburator that allowed 100 miles to the gallon. I *think* exxon mobile purchased the patent, and still secretly holds it today.

BTW here is a news link that surfaced TODAY - What a cowinkydink that I started this thread yesterday....

Neuro-Chips available

[Fused]

so u are talking about the united states of america now. WOW thats just great. talking about robots one minute and a nation the next i am confused

[pezz]

Just using the US as an example. Basically my point was that sometimes money is a deciding factor in research.

If you currently are a HDD technician, and you make 2 billion dollars a year repairing HDD's. Are you gonna tell your customers about your new HDD that lasts for 100 years?

And if you did tell them, would you make the HDD affordable?
Or would you put an ENORMOUS price on it?

Same with medicine...