Where do I start learning?

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  • urban
    Member
    • Mar 2003
    • 105

    #16
    I'd recommend a few other books before diving into things like "Hacking Exposed".

    For example, W. Richard Stevens' books, parituclarly TCP/IP Illustrated, Vols. I and II, Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment, and Unix Network Programming.

    Then, Kernighan & Ritchie's C book.

    Then, get yourself a packet sniffer. Watch ordinary traffic, and learn to recognize traffic at the packet level. Learn to understand what you're seeing at the frame and packet level. Learn the various header contents. Learn how various OSes behave with various protocols (e.g., the typical behavior a ping from a given OS exhibits, and how it pads the payload).

    Learn the lifecycle of a packet, from its origination in the application layer, down through the physical layer, and up the receiving end's stack.

    Once you've got that down, begin trying to understand the ways frames are handled by hubs, and packets by switches and routers. Learn the different ways in which different switches, hubs, and routers can handle traffic.


    After that, you need a good, solid grounding in computers. Not, "That's a P4!", but "that chip architecture has this set of registers, so many pointers, and this instruction set". Go grab a copy of "Bebop to the Boolean Boogie" and "Bebop Bytes Back". They may sound and even look childish, but they're going to teach you how to program using an Altair IMSAI simulator, coding by flipping front-panel switches, loading memory locations one address at a time, and learning to observe the results by inferring the behavior of pointers and registers by watching a series of (simulated) LEDs.

    If you didn't live through the period when this (or punch cards) were commonplace, you need this grounding. Without it, you'll never really understand what the computer's doing with the code it sees.



    With a good understanding of how computers function at the machine-language (and assembly) level, a solid grounding in how TCP/IP works and how various devices make use of it, and a background in C programming, you're ready to tackle pretty much anything.
    http://bitshift.org

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    • SpeeDFX
      Member
      • Jul 2003
      • 6

      #17
      Wow everyone. Thanks a lot for the help. At least now I have a general idea of what it is that I need to learn.

      I'm starting college in September but I'm picking my classes on the 8th of this month. The best class that I can take (because I'm not very experienced) is a beginning programming and unix class. I hope this is beneficial.

      I will also pick up a couple of books that you guys mentioned.

      -Chris

      Comment

      • jounin
        Member
        • Jun 2003
        • 31

        #18
        Originally posted by 0versight
        My biggest gripe is when a script kiddy says, Ok i've scanned their computer/server and I found Port 80 to be open, is there any exploits for Port 80? No it doesn't go that way.

        You must try to figure out what kind of software is being runned that uses Port 80 in the first place. Sometimes you can make an educated guess, examples are if you get from the results that they are running Windows, then you can assume its most likely Internet Explorer being used.......Same with Apple, Safari might be used, use common sense.
        Are you referring to sniffing or something? Last I checked browsers don't listen on 80. But I do agree with your point, you will have better success focusing your efforts when you know what your target is.
        http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=replace_with_any_question

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        • KeLviN
          Poor but happy
          • Jul 2002
          • 1951

          #19
          remember; network security may be the primary focus of hackers today, but its far from the the only facet to this stone.....
          the fresh prince of 1337

          To learn how to hack; submit your request

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          • SpeeDFX
            Member
            • Jul 2003
            • 6

            #20
            I bought TCP/IP Illustrated and I've read about 40 pages into it. So far it has been pretty good but I think the book was written with the assumption that the reader has a good amount of knowledge about programming and unix, and a lot of other computer technical stuff in general. These first 40 pages have been pretty slow and strenuous because of that but I think I'm going to learn a great deal from this book.

            Comment

            • EeeekPenguins
              Your local fucktard
              • Jan 2003
              • 456

              #21
              Read it anyways. You may not understand it at first but there will be very few books you will untill you start reading alot. If you get discouraged so easily you wont get far. After you have read alot of the books you will remember things from previous books and things will start to come together. Also classes at your local community college are usually good.
              The penguin is watching.
              "The DefCon forums dont reward knowledge, but punish iggnorance." -Noid

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              • fluffy
                Member
                • Jul 2003
                • 64

                #22
                Originally posted by SpeeDFX
                I bought TCP/IP Illustrated and I've read about 40 pages into it. So far it has been pretty good but I think the book was written with the assumption that the reader has a good amount of knowledge about programming and unix, and a lot of other computer technical stuff in general. These first 40 pages have been pretty slow and strenuous because of that but I think I'm going to learn a great deal from this book.
                For a primary introduction to Unix, which seems to be what you need, I recommend:

                Unix System V: A practical Guide

                and

                Unix System Administration Handbook
                Don't hurt me daddy!

                Comment

                • urban
                  Member
                  • Mar 2003
                  • 105

                  #23
                  Originally posted by fluffy
                  For a primary introduction to Unix, which seems to be what you need, I recommend:

                  Unix System V: A practical Guide

                  and

                  Unix System Administration Handbook

                  I'd actually recommend "The Magic Garden Explained" and "Solaris Internals" for SysV. Unfortunately, the former's out of print, as AT&T flexed its muscles as it did with every other "under the covers of SysV" book at the time.

                  I'd also recommend "Design and Implementation of 4.4BSD".
                  http://bitshift.org

                  Comment

                  • Grifter
                    Goon * Contests & Events
                    • Sep 2001
                    • 1296

                    #24
                    Actually, If you are looking for a basic understanding of a particular subject I suggest you pick up an Exam Study Guide. Obviously for the area you're interested in. Usually they will start out with basics and get a little harder with each page. Sybex makes some good stuff.
                    .: Grifter :.

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                    • Beginner
                      127.0.0.1 is my ip
                      • Aug 2003
                      • 99

                      #25
                      Originally posted by EeeekPenguins
                      First, not everyone is going to hold your hand and teach you or tell you how to do everything. There is a search button which will yield plenty of answers.

                      For books I would suggest

                      Hacking exposed 3rd ed.
                      Steal This Computer Book 2
                      A computer manual
                      Is the book The Unofficial Guide to Ethical Hacking Better than or worse than Steal This Computer Book 2 ? Aside from the fact that it doesn't have a cd? (Just thought I'd ask before I buy).
                      "I wash my hands of those who imagine chattering to be knowledge, silence to be ignorance, and affection to be art." -Kahlil Gibran

                      "Half the world is composed of idiots, the other half of people clever enough to take indecent advantage of them." -Walter Kerr

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                      • blackwave
                        Member
                        • Jun 2002
                        • 4270

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Beginner
                        Is the book The Unofficial Guide to Ethical Hacking Better than or worse than Steal This Computer Book 2 ? Aside from the fact that it doesn't have a cd? (Just thought I'd ask before I buy).
                        Frankly I wouldn't be so concerned, stop reading about people that hack, and go hack.. it is that simple.... hacking doesn't require spending money on something you are unfamiliar with. Just do it! :)

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                        • Ephedrine88
                          Member
                          • Aug 2003
                          • 3

                          #27
                          Im new to the forums but I couldn't help but throw my 2 cents in.

                          Eeeekpenguins mentioned community college, some community colleges will let you take the same courses as continuing ed instead of for credit at less than half price at times. So if credit isn't important ......


                          lots of good fodder for the search bar here, thx guys

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