Post con thoughts, what was your impression?

[GodMinusOne]

Yea I was there, but I don't understand why it would take years to get where they are. And if they had a venue that could support the event they wouldn't have to bother renting a 100kw trailer mounted genset and skid mounted air conditioning units.

Prehaps if people hadn't been assholes in past years and enjoyed destroying things in other venues, we could have a bigger establishment for con, but that isn't the case and we have to deal with what we are provided.

I wasn't out to insult the goons except that one guy who interrupted Bruce at DefCon 9 because that shit was lame. But obviously, it is nothing but the goons that read this thing.

You do realize that without goons, Defcon wouldn't be possible. If you don't like the way that we handle things, then don't bother coming to Defcon, or better yet, give suggestions on how we could do our job better. You'll get better results by doing that rather than your bitching. This year there were many things sprung on us that had to be dealt with quickly, and in the long run, I think the situations were handled correctly.

As far as the badge, it was visible, riding right next to my cock. So suck it. Visible at all times, yoh.

You try being out in the hot Vegas sun all day checking badges. It is difficult when tons of people are walking by you to try and get in the area and you have to play "Guess Where My Badge Is." If a goon asks you to do something, do it. I mean, is it that difficult for you to put the badge around your neck? If it is, it sounds to me like you have some issues you need to deal with.

[GodMinusOne]

Also, I assure you that if a talk is inturrupted for an announcement, it is extremely important. Just because you didn't find it to be, doesn't mean that others didn't.

[nous]

Originally posted by telemonster
Yea what are you going to do? Throw me out? Nice, the little dick suckers are threatning the patrons.

No, they're patronizing you. And they just might throw you out, if you act like this much of an asshat at con.

There are some goons who show too much attitude or overstep their boundries, but the people you're whining about are not.

If you don't like what happens at Defcon, don't show up. Go start your own con. Show DT and his crew how to do it right. In the meantime, please go play in traffic.

nous - not a goon.

[fluffy]

Originally posted by telemonster
As far as the badge, it was visible, riding right next to my cock. So suck it. Visible at all times, yoh.

If you're that desparate to get your cock some attention, the $75 spent on the badge would be better spent on a cheap hooker.



The people doing the more-than-tedious task of checking badges shouldn't need to scan your entire body to try to find where you decided to shove the badge to. Lanyards are made for being hung around your neck -- do that, and everything's suddenly nice and simple, and you don't have to go around crying cuz some goon spoke to you like the little peon you are.

[Shalome]

Bitch, moan, whine. Yeah, yeah, lines were long, the big talks were hard to get into, so what? Every talk I got into was great, and during ones I didn't get into, I ended up talking with fellow attendees or looking at the vendor's stuff or the ctf or laughing at the wall of sheep, blah blah blah.

The con was way more than I expected, and the goons didn't seem to have a problem with anyone who wasn't being a problem.

Fucking fantastic job, guys. I can't wait to soak up more knowledge (and alcohol) next year.

[telemonster]

Originally posted by GodMinusOne
Prehaps if people hadn't been assholes in past years and enjoyed destroying things in other venues, we could have a bigger establishment for con, but that isn't the case and we have to deal with what we are provided.

Destroying shit is con history. Don't you remember the text files?
If not you should phreak some calls to the Works or &TOTSE and hook up.

You do realize that without goons, Defcon wouldn't be possible. If you don't like the way that we handle things, then don't bother coming to Defcon, or better yet, give suggestions on how we could do our job better. You'll get better results by doing that than bitching. This year there were many things sprung on us that had to be dealt with quickly, and in the long run, I think the situations were handled correctly.

I understand that it takes "goons" to manage the crowd control. But that doesn't help the fact that they are way-the-fuck over booking the availible space they have.

A suggestion would be a $10 badge for the vendor area, dj room(s) (did they even have one outside of the Black and white ball?), and non conference things. Then have the $75 dollar one for those that want to stand in line in the heat, with the goons. Hey goons, at least your shirts were red. Think about all those "Goth for a weekend" kids totally dressed in black.

You try being out in the hot Vegas sun all day checking badges. It is difficult when tons of people are walking by you to try and get in the area and you have to play "Guess Where My Badge Is." If a goon asks you to do something, do it. I mean, is it that difficult for you to put the badge around your neck? If it is, it sounds to me like you have some issues you need to deal with.

Yo doude, I don't think I busted on goons that bad. Most of my beef was with the shit at Defcon 9, but I noticed the same guy goonin' and eating up the mic time. I want to be a superhero, I want to be a superstar.

The whole badge thing was just like, wtf, what a hall monitor. I held the badge out so he could see, with the quickness.

DT could take the $250k and like, buy some gates with mag card readers with keypads. Make people key in their social security numbers, and pass thru the turnstile. That would work, and eliminate some burden ?

[ch0l0man]

Originally posted by telemonster
Think about all those "Goth for a weekend" kids totally dressed in black.



Yo doude, I don't think I busted on goons that bad. Most of my beef was with the shit at Defcon 9, but I noticed the same guy goonin' and eating up the mic time. I want to be a superhero, I want to be a superstar.

The whole badge thing was just like, wtf, what a hall monitor. I held the badge out so he could see, with the quickness.

1. i am not a goon
2. you are a fuckin idiot to go to the desert in all black.
3. why are you still bitching about defcon IX?
4. hall moniter? you must still be in HS, i guess its hall moniterish to have to show your ID at the airport or to buy a drink.

i dont like taking shit from anyone but when i attend someones events i play by their rules, not the rules i would like.

[fluffy]

Tho, I must admit -- in my opinion, the kid's got a single good point.

It would be nice to have a lower-priced (but not $10, maybe the old $50) badge that allows one in to everything but the talks.

I'm not sure how feasible that would be, tho. And it was kinda fun sneaking in to everything I wanted to go to.

[telemonster]

Originally posted by ch0l0man
1. i am not a goon

Okay?

2. you are a fuckin idiot to go to the desert in all black.

Yea no joke, black tshirt (by design!) was enough for me. I can't imagine it for the g0thz.

3. why are you still bitching about defcon IX?

Oh no idea, was just referencing it. It is the only other defcon I've been to. Never saw it in the early days before commercialization.

4. hall moniter? you must still be in HS, i guess its hall moniterish to have to show your ID at the airport or to buy a drink.

No, not at all. It was just nitpicky. Ya know? Like if you stride wif pride up to the person and show them something, making shit easy for them... then they are going to find something, anything, to bitch about. <BIG, fucking, evil, grin>

i dont like taking shit from anyone but when i attend someones events i play by their rules, not the rules i would like.

Yea I hear ya. I'm far from a trouble maker, and generally only make trouble to get a laugh.

[octalpus]

Originally posted by telemonster


Yea I was there, but I don't understand why it would take years to get where they are. And if they had a venue that could support the event they wouldn't have to bother renting a 100kw trailer mounted genset and skid mounted air conditioning units. No tent either (the tent was definitly cool this year -- by brute force, nice Camlock connectors on those AC units too!). What exactly is all the preperation? Renting PA and AV gear, putting up the screens. Let me guess, they have some cat5 runs thru the walls? The whole thing with the hotel video plant is nothing, just drop one of the modulators and throw up your own Blonder Tounge or Sci Atl modulator on the same channel.

You think that's it? Fine, go put on your own con, get 5000 people to attend (that's not including all the staff, vendors, press, and others that didn't get a regular badge), and then make it run smoothly. Your cocky attitude is from the perspective of someone who has NO FUCKING CLUE.

What changes? Shit looked the same as Defcon 9, with the exception of root-fu taking over the ctf event and some of the other things which were soley done by volunteers.

Oh yeah, it's all the same. Except without THE FUCKING RIOT SQUAD.

My post was to get the vibe of other peoples experience. Instead I get a bunch of flames about attend blackhat (no). I wasn't out to insult the goons except that one guy who interrupted Bruce at DefCon 9 because that shit was lame. But obviously, it is nothing but the goons that read this thing.

Priest is right up next to God at Defcon. Priest is the reason that hundreds of idiots aren't in jail, and we didn't get shut down. Yes, really.

As far as the badge, it was visible, riding right next to my cock. So suck it. Visible at all times, yoh. [/B]

Did you ever consider why they had to be so anal about seeing the coloured side of your badge? No, obviously you didn't. Think about the crowd. Think about what it takes to make a black square with white printing. Now think about what it takes to duplicate the nifty side. If you wanted to take the effort to forge a badge, where both sides are indistinguishable from the real thing, more power too you, you win (although you would have had to create quite a few of them to make it worth the cost...).

So, if you like the riot squads, the insane amount of overdoses, people nearly dying, people being arrested left and right, and so much chaos that Defcon almost ceased to exist, then fine, go start a con and run it just like DC9. If you want to see Defcon continue to improve, then quite bitching and moaning, and make some valid suggestions.

[Kry0NiK]

Originally posted by telemonster
Yea what are you going to do? Throw me out? Nice, the little dick suckers are threatning the patrons.

My little man,

I made no threat, implied or otherwise. Simply pointed out how easy it is for you to voice your uninformed and poorly thought out diatribes. If you were to go up to "the man" aka any of the big gahoona's and say the same things you did here, I might have a little respect for you.

Like most sheep, your corporate masters didnt give you the tools to form lucid and contemplative thought.

Ill now speak slowly so you can understand.....

If you didn't like defcon, don't go.

Please take your pseudo-idealistic bullshit elsewhere.

[telemonster]

Originally posted by octalpussy
You think that's it? Fine, go put on your own con, get 5000 people to attend (that's not including all the staff, vendors, press, and others that didn't get a regular badge), and then make it run smoothly. Your cocky attitude is from the perspective of someone who has NO FUCKING CLUE.

Is that an official number? 5000 attendees at Defcon 11?

Priest is right up next to God at Defcon. Priest is the reason that hundreds of idiots aren't in jail, and we didn't get shut down. Yes, really.

Let the idiots go to jail. Makes for good stories later.

Did you ever consider why they had to be so anal about seeing the coloured side of your badge? No, obviously you didn't. Think about the crowd. Think about what it takes to make a black square with white printing. Now think about what it takes to duplicate the nifty side. If you wanted to take the effort to forge a badge, where both sides are indistinguishable from the real thing, more power too you, you win (although you would have had to create quite a few of them to make it worth the cost...).

Did I ever, at all, fucking hint that I was showing them the back side of the badge? NO. Sit down. Nice try, you loose.

So, if you like the riot squads, the insane amount of overdoses, people nearly dying, people being arrested left and right, and so much chaos that Defcon almost ceased to exist, then fine, go start a con and run it just like DC9. If you want to see Defcon continue to improve, then quite bitching and moaning, and make some valid suggestions.

The issues of defcon 9 were still evident at 11, except the fact the fire marshal was there to enforce the law. DT's mention of a 2nd tent was valid, but still it is obvious the shit is too big for that ghetto hotel.

I will admit I don't know about the tent rental, or the AC unit rental... but the generator, I made an attempt to rent a 75kw genset to power lasers for a party at a residential house and the fee was around $500 a week. The badges this year were cheaper, but I would assume $7 per head at least went into the badge and lanyard. Color book (nice!) cost at least $3. CD-ROMs are roughly $800 in 1k quanity with 1 color screen. I can assume Alexis park gives up the hotel for free. Lets assume the tent costs $5000 for the weekend including setup, and the A/C units cost $5000 for the weekend plus $1000 for delivery and craning / forklift off of truck. Pay Cox $5000 for a 10mbps pipe via a metropolitan MAN (their fibernet biz service). Assuming there were 5000 paying attendees, thats $375,000. 5000 might be too high, 2500 might be more realistic. Still that is $187500 before expenses.

I have looked into renting a venue that was 70,000 square feet and it was $4800 a day.

I'm thinking that the people that make the videos do it for free, and get to keep profits from videos made -- they staff a good number of people to record the stuff and pimp fairly expensive gear.

As far as people taking too much alcohol + extacy + cocaine, that could happen at any event.

I have no beef with anyone making money, but at least invest just enough to house the customers.

H2K2 suffered from some of the same problems, and I will hopefully get the opportunity to correct everything I saw was wrong. (It is easier since I'm east coast and the hope shit is east coast, and it is possible to rent a large truck to move all the gear). IP based video network among other things. Should be pretty easy. Maybe defcon could use the same shit to fix their shit.

[octalpus]

Originally posted by telemonster
Is that an official number? 5000 attendees at Defcon 11?

No, that's not official. We were, however, VERY low on badges Sat.

It sounds like you just want to bitch, and don't want to do anything to help. Not that there's any room for a whiney bitch on staff. Go away, and bitch somewhere else. The rest of us are going to talk about what we liked, and suggest changes to people who can do something about it.

[russ]

Thank you. Thread closed. Everyone has their own opinion. But there's no need to be a jackass about it. If you're not happy, please don't come as we'd rather not have you there anyway. Most of us are a close knit community and you apparently don't belong at Defcon.

May I suggest a Hope conference? You might find the lower number of attendees, lack of control and order to be a welcome change after our hitleresque antics.

Thanks again to our friends. And a great big "FUCK YOU" to all the whiners. Please don't come back.

-Russ

Originally posted by simple3
GO THE FUCK AWAY.

if you don't like defcon don't attend. I would like to thank all the goons who worked their fucking asses off at the con. all the attendees that were patient with the problems we had. I was able to see all the talks I wanted to see. I had a lot of fun, met a lot of great people, met up with people I knew before, etc...

defcon is different every year, especially after dc9. I think it is better every year. and this is the best defcon i have been to, out of dc9, 10, and 11.

DEAL WITH IT. why don't you go pay 1000-2000 to go to black hat or some other comercial con if you don't like the defcon experience. if you don't come back next year i'll give you fucking $75 to be on your way. we don't need whiny bitches like you at the con.

--simple3