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  • Women of Defcon

    I don't mean to sound like a feminazi or anything, this is for my women's studies class... ( no, I don't do this shit in my free time)

    Of the women who attended defcon this year or any of the years past, how do you think you were treated overall?

    Were there any incidences of harrassment you felt needed to be addressed?

    How do you feel about the "HaXXXor Chix" cd that was released this year?

    Anything else you can think of that would further relate to the position of women at Defcon (i.e. sexism or gender oppression) would be greatly appreciated.

    (Sorry if this pisses anyone off, but I need to write a paper by 4pm PST today)
    just fluff it

  • #2
    I don't think defcon comes off at all sexist. I see way more sexism/harrassment happening at work than I did there. It's all about presentation though, if you blatantly present yourself as a sex object, you will be treated like one. That goes anywhere. (And for guys too.)

    Total count: 1 guy who made an off color remark (that I heard, anyway) and 1 guy that seemed to have some trouble wrapping his brain around the idea that I actually knew what a KVM switch was. Not bad for a weekend, I've heard worse and been treated worse in an evening in a bar.

    I'm afraid I missed "HaXXXor Chix" - unless that was the one with Molly Cube, or whatever, in which case I caught a bit of it but the guys kept blocking my view.

    Honestly, I think you see a lot less sexism in a crowd like Defcon than you would in a similar sized group of people from more random backgrounds.

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree with AlphaNum3r1c, it is all a matter of how you put yourself out there. Sitting by the pool Saturday night, there was a lot of sexist comments towards some of the girls there.. however the girls were stripping and showing off their breasts and flirtting with the guys... so they got what they wanted.

      As far as the HaXXXor Chix thing... my roomate actually bought it... and I have to say it was pretty sad and pathetic. The girls were reading off of a laptop, couldn't even bother to memorize the 30 seconds of text they said while they took their clothes off (and besides one specific girl ... standing naked was about all they did) AND they kept bumbling their words.

      Anyway, the most sexist comment I recieved was "will you hang out with us, we need more girls to hang out with". As far as respect for my knowledge, I mostly hung out with people I knew so it wasn't ever in question... although I could see how it could be an issue with others.
      "The only thing that I am reasonably sure of is that anybody who's got an ideology has stopped thinking." -- Arthur Miller

      Comment


      • #4
        I got asked to pose for a lot of pictures, but other than that the guys were great for the most part. :)

        There were a few idiots there who asked the annoying question "so why are you here?" to me, when they didn't ask my guy friends the same thing... But I look at it this way. It's still a boy's game. I'm a girl playing a boy's game. I expect a few morons to show up along the way. ;)

        No harrassment (well, okay, some harrassment, but that all came from my good buddies, not random guys, and was all in fun :D ). I don't give a shit about the haxxxor chicks movie -- porn is fun. And funny.

        Comment


        • #5
          Lesse:
          being a chick at DC:

          you get offered 500% more drinks. the funniest part is that 80% of the time you know they just wanna get you drunk so you take your clothes off:p

          lost of guys just want to have your picture taken with them

          i think girls are way respected at DC because of the 90% male ratio within the micro world of DC and outside it as well. i think the guys like to have someone nice to talk to and look at, cuz they're well...guys....

          miss jackalope
          ======================================
          DJ Jackalope
          dopest dj in the galaxy. *mwah!*

          send in the drop bears!
          ======================================

          Comment


          • #6
            I noticed one "guy" called a known associate who played staff this year "babe" when politely asked to refrain from taking crowd shots with his dvc.

            Thats like soooo 1980's

            Women who attend defcon understand their sexuality is magnified at con due to the nature of the demographic. This would explain why women who have no business showing their bodies in public do so with regularity. You can call this the lowered expectations syndrome. On the flip side, the truly good looking ones by everyone elses standards get less attention because its assumed they wont be as unhibited or are attached w/o skills. Every horny 15-90 yr old wants to fuck a scene whore but subconsciously wants to claim someone with skills and tits found him a worthy sperm donor.

            I am also of the opinion that women who attend con shouldnt check their sexuality at the door to be taken seriously, but should be mindful that certain public display will undermine any credibility they have. Its the same double edged sword women in corporate america face when they assume positions of power.

            The most disturbing thing about the haxxxor vid was the girls couldnt turn on a light switch, let alone the mac g4's in front of them...intellectually or sexually. They were paid entertainers and nothing more. I found it laughable that these entertainers somehow thought doing a haxxxor pron video would give them some respect at con, rather the opposite. They were glossed "beer sluts" at hacker jeopardy because they werent legitimate. If they knew anything about computers and the hacking world, they would have been a team verses handing out beers.

            The bottom line is women who flaunt their sexuality without credentials are glossed scene whores, beer sluts, and accused of fucking their way to whatever position they hold professionally.

            Women who flaunt their sexuality, have credentials and posess some semblance of beauty, are largely unapproached because men who would be their peers are ultimately intimidated by a woman with these qualities.

            Good luck with your paper, and I expect payment and or credit rendered for any borrowed work.
            Last edited by Kry0NiK; August 6, 2003, 12:25.
            Yes I'm back bitch!

            And darker than ever

            Comment


            • #7
              Maybe I was just hanging out by the wrong pools or in the wrong sections of the vendor area, but I noticed that most of the girls that were treated like whores, were dressing and acting as such. And wearing a thong with "Follow the ass!" written across your ass, and then asking people to not take pictures of you is beyond me.

              I'd personally like to see more women at DefCon who are there to actually get something out of it, rather than just provide eye candy.
              "These last twenty minutes have been the best years of my life." -Goliath, "The Matrix Comics"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Manic Velocity

                I'd personally like to see more women at DefCon who are there to actually get something out of it, rather than just provide eye candy.
                Some of us were attempting to do both. ;)

                Comment


                • #9
                  A little opinionated...

                  There is more and more T+A appearing at the Con, and not much else being contributed by the Bambi-babes.
                  The ones that DO have brains, personality, and talent
                  (NO, I did not consider fellatio as a talent; I was referring to
                  real, intellectually stimulating, marketable, respectable-type skeels)
                  --fellatio is only legally marketable within Nevada state lines

                  They do NOT provide the women that actually have real interest in participating in Defcon with eye candy. There are no stupid yet physically appealing gold digging dudes dudes prancing around.
                  Participation meaning more involved than playing, hey check out these areolas for some 1337 Swag, lord knows the bimbos are kept too busy prancing and disrobing to buy a f'ing shirt with cash.

                  I found the whole dames and dumpster diving hard to take; pointless, and humiliating. There are rumors that the girls were told what they should wear for Hacker Jeopardy; mildly appaling, and then there's the DVD; it is soft core porn for the 100 or so desperate enough to shell out the $, for what will better serve as a coaster.(unless it's a R/W DVD --a worth while investment if they are)

                  There was not nearly enough swag for chicks. There was not nearly enough so-called "unisex" gear that would FIT a woman unless you moonlight as a fricken linebacker, or just had to get another Hacker sleep shirt. And as for girly stuff....I still can't seem to correlate "Media Slut" "I LOVE MY GEEK" or "I am your Webmistress" with anything I would want associated to me.

                  The 2-3 different baby dolls that were being peddled in all their "borderline-pornographic-unimaginative" splendor, were
                  the same tired quips they churn out year after year; sophomoric, degrading, and predictable. I ALMOST felt sorry for the girls that were coyly giggling...modeling the trashy shit, and to my horror, PURCHASING (or trading a titty shot and a quick hand-job or whatever) for a one-size-fits-all thong complete with the eloquent and timeless legend "ERROR 403 FORBIDDEN" across the crotch, which will resurface for sale next year cause the freaking tourist-tramps bought them right up.

                  /bitchslap spectator-slut

                  Aside from the gender bias that seems to permeate the overall warped, twisted, archaic, unimaginative view of women at Defcon; the actual dudes, the con-goers themselves, are an absolute pleasure to talk to, hang with, vomit off balconies with, paint the toe-nails of the passed-out-21-year-old-boys-with etc. Not only did I feel accepted, but felt welcome rather than tolerated cause I have tits. (I am, for the time being, not gonna consider the frenzy of last-chance come-ons that ensued late Sunday afternoon towards anyone female, or at least bearing
                  a strong resemblance to a chick.) :P

                  So...I guess in my opinion, if the general gender image would friggen get around to catching up with the actual opinions of the individuals attending, and the vendors would STOP assuming that women at Defcon are either bull-dyke she-men, OR that we MUST be dirty sex puppets with a 5th grade level reading comprehension.

                  I stumbled across an article that might help your paper out:

                  Wired News 08-03-2003: a Slut's point of view. I was amazed that she put together a coherent thought. As I read the article I became mesmerized and moved by the depth of passion she exuded; so riveting that I felt I must share it!

                  *WARNING: Do not read while chewing gum if your bra size exceeds your IQ by more than 10 percent, may cause hemorrhaging.*

                  *This article has been Rated by Women Against Stupid Sluts Undermining Progress, or more commonly known as WASSUP

                  Parental discretion is advised---for anyone that thinks of Defcon
                  as a single's mixer.

                  Late Breaking News: Bambi-Babe unmasks her surprising in-depth understanding of computers,"I like shiny things."
                  Not to be outdone, Shameless Tramp confided,"I just bare a nipple and they give me anything I want or need!"
                  Viva la whoredom! Brains are over-rated!


                  *Disclaimers and fine print*
                  I am in no way responsible for any confusion,
                  or headaches reading this may induce for the mentally
                  challenged skanks.
                  The above statement was made with the admittedly unrealistic assumption that:
                  Mental-Midget-Missy understood even a fraction of the opinions or statements that were posted here.
                  That the level of comprehension was achieved without the aid
                  of an interpreter (sorry idiocy is NOT technically a foreign language/handicap), and without the use of dictionary.
                  No no! I said DICTIONARY. Not DICK.
                  Do not Pass Go, do not collect $200.00, go fish, Yatzee!

                  [QUOTE]I am not responsible for any offense taken, whether it
                  be offense taken by the sorry-ass dim-witted peep-show 5 dollar skeezers, or the weak willed sex starved gimps that encourage and couple with the tramps. Remember: every time you screw a bimbo, you're weakening the gene pool, one crack-ho at a time.[QUOTE]


                  Have a Super Day
                  Last edited by Domo-Developer; August 6, 2003, 13:41.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    HaXXXor Chix chicks came to are room they were pretty down to earth.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I did not experience any blatant sexism. I generally get along pretty well with guys. Especially nerds (being one myself).

                      I did not experience any uber offensive sexual harassment. The most dodgy comment (actually came from a goon) was "Nice shirt. I like looking at it for two reasons. One, because it has pi on it. Two, because I like looking at your tits." Big fucking deal.

                      I hung out with guys the whole time, and I learned a lot of cool shit from them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        While I have to agree that most of the women that are sexually harassed at con bring it upon themselves, it still seems like there's a more general problem of sexism as well. And it seems that the acceptence of molesting the scenewhores tends to compound the problem for the more general women folk.

                        But, maybe it's just me and maybe I'm just hyper-aware of it all since I hate being touched by strangers; a day didn't go past where someone wouldn't grab my ass, try to rub my boobs, or do really dorky "I'm coyly brushing my hand against your crotch". And I'd tell these people to fuck off and they'd just look at me like, "Huh? But I'm 'sposed to be allowed to."

                        Maybe the fact that I spend most of Con by myself puts me into the group of people that "invite" that behavior... I'd hope not.
                        Don't hurt me daddy!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: A little opinionated...

                          Originally posted by Domo-Developer
                          ...a lot of stuff...
                          Wow. The levels of hostility in that post... makes me glad I have the ability to not give a shit what other women do with their bodies.

                          And there were some tasty boys parading around at the Black and White Ball... ;)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            As a Guy I do find the way some other guys at the con treat women in attendance appaling. The number of women who gave in to the 'show us your tits' requests only encouraged the crowds.

                            But as for women at Defcon, I think that there is a greater majority of attendees who respect them and want to get to know them more as people just like anyone else at the con.

                            This year I met a very nice female attendee. I was practacing on one of the lockboards and having trouble, she proceeded to pop the trouble lock in about 30 seconds, completely showing me up :) Conversation ensued, and I found that she had a much larger brain than me and this was a mind I wanted to get to know more. I ended up talking with her till 6:30 am sunday morning after hacker jeopardy. One of the best times I've had at Defcon. And not once did I stoop to any pick-up lines, because I knew that this person would be much better to know intellectually for a long time than sexually for a few hours (yes she was hot).

                            As for the Haxxxor chix DVD thing, I saw it for what it was, marketing towards an audience who are too dumb to realize that if they just waited a couple days they could have it for free off any p2p network. I also have to question the intelligence of selling a DVD at a hacker con and NOT expecting it to be ripped to VCD and handed out freely by satuday morning, or aired on Defcon TV

                            Over the last 5 years I've seen the female:male ratio for from 1:1000 to 1:100. I hope at some point it reaches 1:1 because the introduction of new ideas and perspectives is always welcome and I think that women in technology have very valuable insights that are drowned out among the 'show us your tits' chorus.

                            Just my $0.02
                            Never drink anything larger than your head!





                            Comment


                            • #15
                              yes there are problem guys there. I'm sorry if you think someone asking to take your picture is rude. would you rather they take your picture without asking? I take pictures of anyone, male or female, that is dressed up. sorry it I am hormonally inclined to notice the females more. some of the girls there are just scene whores, but then again so are some of the guys. I don't know what any of you are thinking, I thought that all of the "haxxor chixx" were disgusting except one. If you want to sell instructional porn videos more power to you, but those girls were nasty.

                              --simple3

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