Vote - Defcon 12 100$usd

[astcell]

I think the extra $25 should be used to send the Fire Marshal on vacation!

[guano]

now maybe if we went $150 it might make a difference...

Actually, I think the next major increase that would truly make a difference is around $300. This is the low-end cost range of a high-end conference. And at that price, I don't think the "party atmosphere" of Defcon would be tolerated. For $300, people expect to get high quality talks on cutting edge technology, and not to be harrassed by drunks. They would expect to sit and learn, some hands-on, and not many people would sit at tables drinking the time away.

Now, I'm going to say something that will probably be extremely unpopular.

I view conferences as falling into two categories: amateur (bottom), and professional (top). All conferences, SIGs, etc. fall into this range. The difference is (1) cost, (2) organization, and (3) quality.

For example, 2600 group meetings are free, but generally unorganized and low quality. This is the "bottom of the bottom".

Toorcon, Phreaknic, etc. are middle-of-the-bottom. I think the new Defcon Groups are aiming for this range.

Defcon is top-of-the-bottom. Low cost, well organized but with a level of chaos, and variable quality.

In contrast:
Vendor-oriented conferences/presentations are generally free (or low cost), well organized, and high quality. This is bottom-of-the-top.

LISA, USENIX, etc. are middle-of-the-top.

Top-of-the-top? That's debateable. I'd put BlackHat, SANS, InfoWarCon, near this range.


What does this have to do with the price of Defcon admission? As it approaches $300, it begins to cross the line from "top-of-the-bottom" to "bottom-of-the-top". This will do two things: First, quality and organization must improve or it will lose people. Second, it will create a huge void in the bottom-of-the-top category. (I don't think H2K is ready to fill that void yet.)

[spahkle]

Wow, a recommended jump of $25 to a jump of $225.. Can we get a second?? I didn't think so. While a price of $300 wouldn't necessarily keep me from attending, part of the reason I go IS to see friends I don't normally see and vent off a year of hard work. Yes, this does include drinking and attending parties. oh well.

If people don't like the party aspect, they don't have to stick around for that part of the 'Con. It's easy to stay off-site and only attend talks during the day. Spend the off hours visiting Vegas while the other 'Con attendees participate in the Defcon pasttime of having too much fun and too much alchohol...

$25 increase to much... No

$225 increase to much... Get Real, of course it is.

[AFFA]

Well the hupla on the price increase

Well my last visit to Defcon, I paid, Got my literature, had a few drinks and, shook a few hands, then on my way I went. I prsonally had no problem with the $$$ I paid to spens a shot time in the Speakers, Tent(s) and the main areas. The most uncomfortible thing was the MS goons, and a few others I was able to notice lurking in several areas :) A few news peeps seemed indeferent in their opinions, one of them BLASTED out of his mind, I cant even believe his story in the Local VEGAS NEWS was actually somewhat lacking the usual drama :)

Basically I had a great TIME and good clean FUN :)

Thats My 2 cents

[bobaxos]

i have a job i can afford it, and the last time i went (defcon 9, yes i know it was a long time ago) i had a blast. see you all at Defcon 12

[astcell]

It's only money. With one year to prepare, no one should have issues!

[genxweb]

Hum 25 dollars more. Iam not sure. I dont think it will help and after the some what lame speakers and the fact we hadto watch 90% ofthe con from my room I dontthink it be worth paying a 100 dollars.

The script kiddies have their moms and dads funding them us working class got kids bills and other shit to worry about.

THough I might be game for it we got a guarantee to x amount of speakers

[ck3k]

I am really gonna have to start saving.....Blackhat and Defcon oh my.

[ankleteeth]

SK ass kicking!

I say we just start beating all these script kiddies asses, and throwing them in the ponds, etc. Half of them will leave the first day, which will not only give us a good feeling after kicking their asses, but also will keep costs down, and the following years thereafter should start working better. Honestly, why punish everyone in just an attempt to keep a certain class of people out? I really think we just need to enforce some sort of control, either vigilante(kicking their asses) or by some sort of rules set forth by the goons... i dunno...

[guano]

I say we just start beating all these script kiddies asses, and throwing them in the ponds, etc. Half of them will leave the first day, which will not only give us a good feeling after kicking their asses, but also will keep costs down, and the following years thereafter should start working better. Honestly, why punish everyone in just an attempt to keep a certain class of people out? I really think we just need to enforce some sort of control, either vigilante(kicking their asses) or by some sort of rules set forth by the goons... i dunno...

Hmmm... How can you tell a script kiddie from an undercover fed who is non-technical? Omar the Cabbie thinks that in the near future, Defcon will be 50% fed (and all fed in the next few years).

You might be able to beat up the fed. You even might be able to throw him in the pool. But I really think it would be you that misses the rest of Defcon. :)

Also, not all kiddiez are evil. I met a few last year that simply wanted to learn and never had the opportunity. They were kiddiez+nubies, but not evil.

[Dethl]

Still cheap to me

Seeing how much different conferences have been for my parents, this con is dirt cheap! Even at $100, I still think its a great deal! I went last year, and I'm sure as heck coming this next year.

[icetre]

Argh

I hate *hate* hate to say it.

But defcon has outgrown AP. We need to use the money raised from a double in con price to get a bigger hotel..

Although I think the point was made in another thread that there's isn't a hotel in vegas that is going to host 4k worth of hackers/lamers/retards/scenewhores and not choke them with airtight security.

Other than the size of the con versus the size of the hotel, I have to say I have no problems with the AP. This year they were a little stupid on security and yes I didn't see not one guard that wasn't over 65, but shit; they've been good to us so far..

Has anyone brought the issues up to AP to see what they have to say?

How about the Hard Rock, I mean shit, we pretty much take over that entire corner that weekend anyways, they've got to be pretty used to us...

But even with all this talk, it really scares me to even think of DC anywhere but AP.. I mean, DCX: Purple fountains.. :)

Though, I missed alot of talks this year because crap was closed, we have got to do *something* but I think trying to stuff the genie back in the bottle is just a little shortsided. We've got techtv on site every year, of course it's getting bigger and bigger..

How about a 3 question quiz for those attempting register. Simple things: "what protocol number is ICMP" get 1 out of 3 you get a badge. Answer none right you have 3 choices. Work reg, noc, or get out.

How about making press qualify for badges in some way.. These couldn't be knowledge related, but must be party related seeing as the press doesn't generally know squat..
"you got 10 minutes, to drink that 5th of Jack.. Ready, set, GO!"

I could just see it.. Qualification papers.. :) Ending up looking like the scavenger hunt. :) *you have 1 hour to find a german telephone book..*

******But I think the *best* idea really is research for the future and *require* pre-reg.


Pre-reg would work like this. 4 months before con, you would have to register on the website. 1 month before con registration would close. After that, Reg triples (from 100 to 300) This would accomplish a few things..

1. You could give the AP a solid number of attending persons.

2. Cuts down on lamers because of high price and planning required.

3. Doesn't lock out last minute dorks who are willing to pay the price

4. Hopefully gets us some better food (although I would love to see the food go away and get replaced with morning marlboro/jack stands..) "Those of us who'd been up all night were in no mood for coffee and doughnuts, we needed strong drink."


I have to admit, I think most of the people that I know, go year after year.

Most of the people I know, buy the hotel reservations the day we are sure it's at the ap and the day the dates are nailed down (and some of us just guess on that, and even more I have actually witnessed a few people making next years reservation as they closed out this years tab at the front desk.)

This wouldn't affect the defcon regulars.

What do you all think?

[hackajar]

Have you bothered to read any of the other 4 pages of post on this thread?

/me now has "around the world"-daft punk song stuck in head

[KeLviN]

at least wait one more year...

we just raised it!

that is all.

[icetre]

4 pages? Must be late

Why yes, I actually read *most* of this post. Obviously I missed page 2. *bad icetre* *flogs self*

Obviously forum.ko is causing a kernel panic, apologies. ;)