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  • West Coast 802.11 Traveling Network for Defcon 12

    What up people? I live in Medford, Oregon (Southern Oregon) and want to get a traveling 802.11 wireless network running for the trip down to DEFCON 12 next year. Las Vegas is a little bit of a drive so If your interested and live in Oregon or Washington, email me back and we can spec this. *And yes I know this has been done before but fuck it, lets do it again ;)

    sohrgroup@hotmail.com
    Last edited by indicanblend; December 21, 2003, 14:24.
    DC541 - (linuxscripto) contact linuxscripto@hotmail.com

  • #2
    Originally posted by indicanblend
    What up people? I live in Medford, Oregon (Southern Oregon) and want to get a traveling 802.11 wireless network running for the trip down to DEFCON 12 next year.
    I'm going to give you the same piece of advice we give everyone who suggests this year after year:

    Don't.

    There're two reasons for this: firstly (in California at least), it's illegal to have a video display in use in an area normally visible from the front seats while the vehicle is in motion. This means that technically front-seat passengers can't use laptops, and it's the driver's responsibility to enforce that.

    Secondly, people are actually fucking stupid enough to tailgate the car with the access point (or the cars behind it) in an attempt to get signal. At 70mph, this is just plain stupid. Having actually seen it happen several years back on the SoCal Caravan, I speak from experience when I call it a Bad Idea.

    Our roads are clogged with enough dipshits distracted by their cellphones while driving; we don't need to add idiots trying to watch a laptop at speed in order to share MP3s with the person behind them.

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    • #3
      Thanks for the lowdown, but with the RIGHT equipment and testing, this can be done safely, not only to us but others on the road as well.

      _indicanblend_
      DC541 - (linuxscripto) contact linuxscripto@hotmail.com

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      • #4
        Originally posted by indicanblend
        Thanks for the lowdown, but with the RIGHT equipment and testing, this can be done safely, not only to us but others on the road as well.
        I'd really like to know how you plan on doing that. This is a truly bad idea, not to mention likely to get you hit with a major fine if you're caught doing it in California. You seem to be missing the point that the distraction factor inherent in all of this is the real issue.

        Also, if you are planning on doing it, please do not join the caravan. Thanks.

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        • #5
          But GPS displays are fine for the driver?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by astcell
            But GPS displays are fine for the driver?
            Actually, those are a grey area. The way the law is written right now, it's intended for things like DVD displays - but people have been nailed for using laptops to do GPS-based work. Technically, those displays are illegal but there seems to be no real enforcement on the issue.

            Ultimately it comes down to whether or not the cop wants to write the ticket, and the CHP are notorious for being assclowns. I have never been able to get one of them to back down.

            Also (and this is an issue unrelated to safety that I'm largely failing to understand): why is it so damn essential to not put the bloody computer down? Hurr, hurr, lookie me, I'm shelled into that Honda over there. Have we honestly hit a point where people are so maladjusted that they can't leave the thing alone for a few hours?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by indicanblend
              Thanks for the lowdown, but with the RIGHT equipment and testing, this can be done safely, not only to us but others on the road as well.

              _indicanblend_

              Intelligent people listen to advice of others and learn from their mistakes. Maybe you should just avoid Cali. and drive through Utah.... Utah has a way of chewing up Defconites and spitting them back out.

              But in all seriousness, what is the real need for it? You talk about Oregon being a long drive? I drove across the country from the east coast, I didn't feel the need to have internet access on the road. Why, you ask? Because I am not that much of a Loser (references on file). Moreover, I value MY safety, the Saftey of those in my vehicle (see: stitch) and the safety of those in the vehicles around me. Skroo told you exactly the problems that may arise. Are you willing to either A) Get Cited B) Get in an Accident or C) get killed over not having the internet for a few hours.

              Tell me something. Are you one of those people who comes to Las Vegas for Defcon and then sits on their computer all day long in your room/breakout room? If so, that would make a lot of sense. In which case I will retract all earlier statements and tell you to cover your entire dashboard with display devices and drive at 120MPH while weaving in and out of cars and make sure to drive thru utah, specifcially 15.... This would help in my project "Filtration of the Gene Pool"

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              • #8
                Tell me something. Are you one of those people who comes to Las Vegas for Defcon and then sits on their computer all day long in your room/breakout room?
                Actually, quite the opposite highwiz, Why sit in your hotel room with your notebook when you could be learning something new, talking to people etc etc etc. Listen, We have almost full cars and I don't see a problem with people in the back using the computers if they want to. Do you? Now the fact that I don't fucking speed and have never got a speeding ticket pretty much shows you that I don't go 120mph. And How do you figure that a person has to be right on your ass just to get a signal schroo, that is NOT true, or you were using some weak equipment. Here is the bottom line, the wireless network on I-5 is NOT because we cannot be without the internet for a few days, It is to teach others in the caravan (that have yet to see it work in person) how it is done, and used. The spread of information, isn't that what we are all here for?

                But listen, I have taken all of your concerns and info into mind and you have made some excellent points. Thanks for the feedback.
                DC541 - (linuxscripto) contact linuxscripto@hotmail.com

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                • #9
                  You make an number of inane points. First off, you dont have to be speeding to get in a wreck, so while you dont drive 120 it does not make what you are doing safe. According to the NCSA speeding only contributes to 31% of all fatal accidents. So even though you guys are all driving 55mph, there is still a signifigant risk there.

                  Your second point is your logic behind your 'It is to teach others in the caravan (that have yet to see it work in person) how it is done, and used. The spread of information, isn't that what we are all here for? ' logic. This is just dumb. Lets say you wanted to learn how to shoot a rifle, by your logic its just as fine to teach you by hanging out of a moving car than down at the rifle range. Yes we're all here to learn things, but there is a difference between setting up an ad-hoc wireless network poolside at the Alexis Park and doing it in the back of an 86 Mustang.

                  Please post your caravan route well in advance so I can make sure to avoid it at all costs.

                  I return whatever i wish . Its called FREEDOWM OF RANDOMNESS IN A HECK . CLUSTERED DEFEATED CORn FORUM . Welcome to me

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                  • #10
                    Please post your caravan route well in advance so I can make sure to avoid it at all costs.
                    I will be sure to.
                    DC541 - (linuxscripto) contact linuxscripto@hotmail.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by indicanblend
                      And How do you figure that a person has to be right on your ass just to get a signal schroo, that is NOT true, or you were using some weak equipment.
                      OK. Let's put it this way:

                      The lead vehicle is housing the host AP. We'll say the average length of a vehicle is 15', which is probably a bit short of the truth but convenient for my argument and actually advantageous to yours.

                      Assuming the vehicles are travelling 50' apart, that means that there's a total of 15 + 50 = 65' per vehicle and following distance.

                      In absolutely optimal conditions, an 802.11b AP can be expected to have an effectgive radius of around 1500'. 1500 / 65 = 23 and change, which represents the total number of cars that could - at best - be expected to be within reception range.

                      Access points are far better radiators than most wireless cards. People in the cars tailing the AP lose signal back to the AP, so they bunch up to get closer to it. THIS IS WHERE *ONE* OF THE PROBLEMS IS. Not to mention that if you're only 50' away from the car in front of you at 70mph (the legal maximum in CA, and you don't speed), you're still about 550' short of the prescribed safe following distance, or over one-tenth of a mile.

                      So unless you only intend to have two or three cars participating in this idiotic little escapade at nothing other than the safe following distance - you're still doing something dangerous, stupid, and stupid because it's dangerous.

                      It is to teach others in the caravan (that have yet to see it work in person) how it is done, and used.
                      You're right. This is why every '77 Pinto comes equipped with Wi-Fi as standard. How silly of me to be ignorant of the motor industry's mad rush to equip everyone with it.


                      The spread of information, isn't that what we are all here for?
                      You can spread information all you want, but if you're likely to represent a danger to others while doing so, don't be surprised when people step forward and tell you to find another way of doing what you're proposing. Welcome to being part of a community. Just because my neighbour can get drunk and play with guns on his front lawn doesn't mean I won't shoot him myself if he may injure or kill me or others.

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                      • #12
                        This was mentioned last year, it isnt a good idea, you can wait like the 6 hours it takes to make that drive. I was thinking about this to, and how nifty it might be, but as pointed out, the cars would start to bunch up, and of course, you would be distracted by the convo, or perhaps keeping everyone within range, not to mention how much I am sure the cops wouldnt like around 5 people in a car with there laptops open....not a good thing....just save it, check out cb radios or frs if you must stay in contact, cause If when I am driving down I detect an AP and all of assudden get hit by some fuckers on the laptops, I will be out for blood.
                        ~:CK:~
                        I would like to meet a 1 to keep my 0 company.

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                        • #13
                          Allright

                          Well-spoken pieces of advice my friends.

                          I have done alittle testing with is WTN and have come out with the following:

                          In using a high-gain- amplified-omni-directional antenna, connection broke at around 750 ft i am estimating, in less than perfect traffic. Signal had to go through several cars. I know 750 ft is not much but it sure is better than the 50 feet your saying is nessessary to conduct this project. But everyones concerns have put my idea on the backburner, I tend to listen to comrades and respect all of you for your insights.

                          cause If when I am driving down I detect an AP and all of assudden get hit by some fuckers on the laptops, I will be out for blood
                          Does this mean you will be breaking state law by operating a laptop next to you? I wouldn't advise it...I hear that it is very distracting and a danger to you and others on the road.......;)
                          DC541 - (linuxscripto) contact linuxscripto@hotmail.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by indicanblend

                            Does this mean you will be breaking state law by operating a laptop next to you? I wouldn't advise it...I hear that it is very distracting and a danger to you and others on the road.......;)

                            With Wardriving you can throw the laptop in the backseat.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              With Wardriving you can throw the laptop in the backseat.
                              How convienent. ;)
                              DC541 - (linuxscripto) contact linuxscripto@hotmail.com

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