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Originally posted by astcell
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well that depends on where you look. many companies haven't had the money or the desire to move up from nt. these companies still value the nt people. (if not the certification, the experience)- fhqwhgads -
MCSE > CNEI - my CNEI is a bit outdated, and is *completely* worthless to me at this point and time, I feel anyway. If any are looking for a CNEI/sysadmin/security technician in Cali - I'm looking for a reason to move back home. I concur, my degree is still serving me quite well - Maybe we need to develop a new standard in the way of certs and a rating system to show all of the newer ones how useless they are....
Quirk the drunkenLast edited by Qu|rk; February 4, 2004, 01:17. Reason: because I wasn't thinking when I posted originallyComment
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From a real-world standpoint, certs are about worth wiping your ass with. BUT.. in a business standpoint, they will help get you in the gates by the HR goons in some places that scan for buzzwords (No offense to our Goons, which are not affiliated with HR types to my knowledge). I would concentrate on the degree, that is not something that M$, etc can declare "outdated and null". It will help you out more than certs. ever will. Many colleges have classes that give you credit as well as prepare you for certs, they are good to take. You need the credit anyway, why not get a cert while you are at it. There is not a replacement for real-world experience, however.. grab that any way you can (internships, part-time jobs, etc).Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.Comment
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Che's absolutely right.Originally posted by che
But this is a better point. Knowing what I know now, if I could go back and re-do University (which I am considering doing, as it happens), I'd take CS and finish it. Yes, certs help, but there is no substitute for a degree.I would concentrate on the degree, that is not something that M$, etc can declare "outdated and null". It will help you out more than certs. ever will.
Especially community colleges. Want lab time for a CCNA that also earns x number of credits towards a BSc. in CS? Check out community colleges; most of their introduction-to-whatever courses also let you earn recognised credits (and they're cheap - usually less than $100 per unit, which is WAY less than you'll pay for a hands-on course at a training centre). One other advantage of certs that hasn't yet been mentioned: if you're going for your first industry job, certs back up what you're saying on your resume.Many colleges have classes that give you credit as well as prepare you for certs, they are good to take. You need the credit anyway, why not get a cert while you are at it.
There is not a replacement for real-world experience, however.. grab that any way you can (internships, part-time jobs, etc).[/QUOTE]
Absolutely. However, don't expect to rely on real-world experience alone, especially in today's job market. It's not 1999 anymore, and employers are much pickier about who they hire.Comment
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It sounds like you're already on your way to filling many of those hot IT jobs over in India. Do you speak hindi?
Given your current list of previous jobs and basic certifications you really shouldn't have a problem getting INTO a place at an entry level. Certs, as have been said many times before, are usually pieces of paper that prove you know how to take a test.
I'm IAM, CCNP, and CISSP certified and don't have a college degree and have worked in the same place for 10 years. Whoopedeedoo. None of those certifications got me the job or the positions I've held within as they all came AFTER I was in those areas (network engineering, information security).
Jobs aren't always what you know but who you know and how much they like you.We own everything so you don't have to!Comment
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Okay, but here's the rub: you've been at the same place for ten years. What happens tomorrow if you need to find another job? The job market today is radically different to what it was ten years ago: people with your level of expertise are now relatively commonplace, and employers can pick and choose who they want to hire.Originally posted by gzzah
True. But again: changes in the job market. I spent nearly two years unemployed in 2001 and 2002, in part due to the fact that despite my work experience and knowledge I had no certifications to back them up and a degree that has nothing to do with the field I'm in (Modern Foreign Languages, as it happens).None of those certifications got me the job or the positions I've held within as they all came AFTER I was in those areas (network engineering, information security).
An employer isn't compelled to hire you, or even keep you on once they have hired you. Anything in your arsenal that might help to compel them to do so helps.Jobs aren't always what you know but who you know and how much they like you.Comment
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Granted, tomorrow I may find myself flat out of work and in the same line looking for that next high-paying job with everyone else. Will the certs help in that endeavor? Yes and no. If you get past the initial pile of 10k resumes and land that first interview then it will most likely be because of something in that cover letter or on the resume that sparked the HR drone's interest.Originally posted by skroo
Getting past them is your next hurdle but usually they have a "criteria list" that the manager wants and it almost always says: "put those with [insert certification here] above others." It's not the ONLY criteria but since they came out it seems to be the one that gets you past the drones easily.
At least it gets past our drones easily. We have to weed out those who don't know crap which is 4 out of 5 applications usually.
Bake them cookies. Or brownies....An employer isn't compelled to hire you, or even keep you on once they have hired you. Anything in your arsenal that might help to compel them to do so helps.We own everything so you don't have to!Comment
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Again it is the cert question....
I am a strong defender of both. Here is my ranking when we hire:
Degree + relevant certs
Degree
Certs
Experience - based upon the jobtype and function.
Certs I hold: CTT, CNE,CNI, MCSE, Linux +, Net+, Sec +, A+, CCNA, and currently working on CISSP, CCNP, RHCT, RHCE
Degrees: A.A.S Electronic Eng.
A.S. Info Tech
B.S Tech Management and working on B.S. Info. Tech
I think it depends on WHERE you goto work, and WHO interviews you.
Perhaps the best thing for you would be to take some time to determine where you want to be in say 5 years or so, what kind of company do you want to work for, what area of the company do you want to live in?
Rule of thumb: Specialize then Generalize
***It must be noted however that obtaining certs and degrees is a personal hobby of mine.**** Much like some people collect stamps.Comment
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Really? Experience last? Interesting. I am the exact opposite. I'd rather have someone with actual experience that struggled through high school than someone with a degree.Originally posted by pezzperl -e 'print pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'Comment
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Just saw this on cnn.com. It's relevant...so I provide. I am all about sharing the info.
http://money.cnn.com/2004/02/05/pf/c...ex.htm?cnn=yesperl -e 'print pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'Comment
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sweet thanksOriginally posted by Chris- fhqwhgadsComment
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Maybe if they came to us with animal sacrifices, or good porn, we'd go easy on them.Originally posted by 0versightComment
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any forum that puts banned users on display like a head on a spike deserves a little respect i think- fhqwhgadsComment
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Hiya guys, first post here. Felt the need to interject.
I started in the IS industry in the mid 80 as a build tech in a local store. Worked (thanks to nepotism) my way all the way up to client/server sysop at a huge multinational corporate monster before I got my first cert - Lotus Notes 4.5 AM. Useless. Since then I've held positions from production support all the way up to network admin at huge bloated clustercorps.
Certs are generally useless in the real world. Some of the recockulous certs I've acquired over the years:
IBM JCL (WTF? punch cards?)
IBM Token Ring
Vax VMS Clustering
IBM OS/2
HP UX
AIX
SAP
...and countless more that did nothing for me. The only certifications I find useful are sat/land microwave transmission certs required by the FCC. One of those and you can bank.
If you come to an interview with me and spout off the letters you've acquired - be prepared to be put in a very uncomfortable situation when I start asking you about real world troubleshooting scenarios. I'm kind of an oldhead in the industry (semi-retired at 34) and still think of IS guys as pot smoking, pizza eating, up-all-night hackers who don't even worry about things like paychecks. If you show up with a tailored Armani, a leather briefcase and a spiky haircut you aren't going to fit in at my office. We stay late, smoke ganja, eat pizza and deathmatch on the corporate LAN. ;)
Nice to meet ya' guys. Back to lurking.
Check out my new message board: http://MyGanjaGrow.comComment
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it sounds like you've been very fortunate- fhqwhgadsComment
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