What are you views on cheating?

[Ridirich]

Yes, but Rockafeller also lit his stogies with 100 dollar bills.

[Siviak]

I think that was the point in his comment.... he was rich.. he knew.

[Second]

So wait, if your definition of Cheating is "taking an unfair advantage", does that mean they should never play a game where you are smarter then someone else or more creative because to them your intellect or creativity would seem unfair?

But would that really be unfair? I whole-heartedly agree it would be an advantage, but not an unfair advantage. Going along with the current theme of game-playing as an example, an advantage I would have over you (generally speaking, not personally) is that I can aim better, react quicker, etc. This is not unfair, just and advantage coming from more practice or just natural ability. Now the person on the losing end can think it's unfair 'till their head explodes, but it isn't. That's just the way it is.

[lil_freak]

Anyone ever been told by their parents that "Life is not fair"? That is the case here. there is no such thing as a "level playing field". Things like that and "equal opportunity" are false hopes that just make people feel better.

As Siviak stated "there is no such thing as a level playing field". Plus when it comes down to it, ethics can be a tricky thing -- at the most basic level, we are talking about a set of values for deciding what's right and what is not. But whose values are being applied? And who gets to decide?

Some of us may regard the ethics of everyday life as an ongoing discussion; one that's always changing and always filled with new and interesting questions. Who has the answers? That's up to you to decide, but no matter what you do, someone will always be there to challenge your notion of "right" and "wrong."

With so many forum members, there will never really be a right or wrong answer. And while some of us may not agree with one person’s view, we might agree with another’s view, then again maybe not. Then there is the view that we come up with ourselves or have installed into and that may be the only view that is acceptable to us and that’s fine too. So, when it comes down to it I believe cheating is and is not okay. But I won’t be able to apply an answer to that question till it comes up. I would like to say thou that cheating should not be acceptable when life or death hangs on to the outcome of gain from said cheating.

[Siviak]

ok on a simmiliar path... stealing.

when is it stealing? always? sometimes? it's all community property man lighten up?

when you take $100 out of someones wallet that is stealing... but when you "hork" a buck out of your roomates change dish because they aren't home and you are short on gas/smokes/booze/crack etc. is that stealing as well?

I think that these subjects are all based on justification. and not that they haven't provided good exchange, but they are Poli/Religion topics with no dicerable answers.

[lil_freak]

I think that these subjects are all based on justification. and not that they haven't provided good exchange, but they are Poli/Religion topics with no dicerable answers.

They are such topics, but depending on how you word your question/answer they could also fall under other topics just the same. Like I said one person may view something different than the next person, it just depends on who you are.

[robman]

I've another new idea to bring to the table.

Like everything cheating is a word. A word with a meaning that we have created as a society. We assign words their meanings for what we are trying to express. However, if you were to take the action of cheating from one civilization or society to another, the meaning may change; at least the views on it would.

What is stopping someone from killing another? The thought that it is wrong? Well someone else may not think it is wrong, but in his society it is punishable by the same factor.

Maybe that analogy is too harsh, replace kill with steal. It is all a frame of mind. Cheating is no different. Our views on cheating don't really matter if the rules are already set. One student thinks that God meant for the world to live in anarchy. So cheating and stealing would be fair game. Another thinks that the world is a much better place with the civil societies we have today.

We will always disagree slightly on where the line on cheating is drawn. When you are playing a game, they make the environment for you. They distinguish the rules for you. Anything out of those boundaries is cheating, right? Well being creative might be out of the boundaries of the developers, but they forgot or couldn't add that restriction to the game. (Or test, or real-life situation)

And so I say that we shouldn't be worrying too much on what we will call cheating, but rather does it hurt anyone else? If it hurts someone else than that is a moral and ethical situation. Yet- it is more complicated. For what if I were to say that I am hurt because I am not as smart as my opponent, who obviously used his brains to do things that weren't meant to happen.

I know this sounds vague, but I do not know how to better convey my thoughts. I am trying to say that we should really be discussing what you would call moral, not what you would call cheating. Because in a more primal time, there was no such thing.

[astcell]

How you feel after being caught cheating also defines if it is a real cheat or not. catch me cheating on the capital of Rhodesia (it was a cou try when ~I~ was in high school) and I say who cares. Catch me cheating at chess and I will feel like a real dick. But I don't cheat at chess, and I would not, and if I did I'd be my own worst enemy.

Reminds me one time when playing chess I thought I'd be slick and pretend it was my move since the other guy was taking so long. I could sure use two moves! So I moved and hoped he'd not find out. Then guess what. I found out it WAS my move. I did NOT cheat but I thought I did. So, did I cheat? If you 'steal' a handful of change then find out it was your change after all, are you still going to hell in a handbasket?

[Siviak]

so what we've come to here is that "cheating/stealing" are only defined as "bad" when harm is done?


now... who defines harm? did you just "kife" my LAST buck outta my cange dish? at the same time would it be ok to steal more than a dollar from say, Bill Gates? (ok thats a bad example.. but you can all see where I am going), just like stealing a loaf of bread to feed your family......


JUSTIFICATION

[Second]

I've another new idea to bring to the table.

Like everything cheating is a word. A word with a meaning that we have created as a society. We assign words their meanings for what we are trying to express. However, if you were to take the action of cheating from one civilization or society to another, the meaning may change; at least the views on it would.

What you're thinking of here is similar to Plato's analogy of The Cave. Although I do not agree with this view, I do find it very VERY interesting and can see what Plato is trying to say. Hopefully the picture diagram will explain it in detail.

What is stopping someone from killing another? The thought that it is wrong? Well someone else may not think it is wrong, but in his society it is punishable by the same factor.

I hear this all the time in one way or another, and it always comes down to moral relativity. Everyone's standards are different. If I consider murder wrong and immoral, I do not do it, and I would rarely or never recieve opposition for my belief. But why should we look unfavorably upon Hitler or Charles Manson? They thought that what they were doing was right. They didn't think it was wrong or immoral. So where do we draw the line? Is it possible? See, this is where I can sit back from these heavy discussions and not worry about how much is too much. Although it would be bringing religion back into it, as I stated before, these things are clearly outlined for me, so I do not have to stress about it. I hope conclusions are as easy for you as they are for me.

[astcell]

RE: JUSTIFICATION

Never offer justification.

Your friends don't need it. Your enemies won't believe you anyway.

[mikedc1760]

How you feel after being caught cheating also defines if it is a real cheat or not. catch me cheating on the capital of Rhodesia (it was a cou try when ~I~ was in high school) and I say who cares. Catch me cheating at chess and I will feel like a real dick. But I don't cheat at chess, and I would not, and if I did I'd be my own worst enemy.

Reminds me one time when playing chess I thought I'd be slick and pretend it was my move since the other guy was taking so long. I could sure use two moves! So I moved and hoped he'd not find out. Then guess what. I found out it WAS my move. I did NOT cheat but I thought I did. So, did I cheat? If you 'steal' a handful of change then find out it was your change after all, are you still going to hell in a handbasket?

Yea, kinda when you get all the answers to the test and then you screw up by skipping a letter and mess up the rest of the answers
I meant to get a 95 but instead received a 50. Did I also cheat?

[Voltage Spike]

I meant to get a 95 but instead received a 50. Did I also cheat?

Well besides being incredibly silly (I mean, you didn't bother to check the answers with your free time?), I think we're mostly in agreement that intentions play a large part in determining whether or not something is considered cheating.

Oh, and I still like Ridirich's definition best: "Any person(s) that reach a goal unjustly by using work not their own". It is not all-encompassing, but it is pretty damn good.

[highwizard]

But would that really be unfair? I whole-heartedly agree it would be an advantage, but not an unfair advantage. Going along with the current theme of game-playing as an example, an advantage I would have over you (generally speaking, not personally) is that I can aim better, react quicker, etc. This is not unfair, just and advantage coming from more practice or just natural ability. Now the person on the losing end can think it's unfair 'till their head explodes, but it isn't. That's just the way it is.

I was not using the game-playing example (Computer/Video Games). I was using the Scav Hunt example which it kinda outlined in my post.

[Ridirich]

Thanks Voltage.