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  • What type of locks should I expect at the contest?

    What was there last year?

    Will there be tubulars, combos, SFIC's, or what?

    This is my first DEFCON and I am really looking forward to it. I just have no idea what to expect.

  • #2
    Originally posted by wsbpress
    What was there last year?
    i was only in the first and second round of competition last year, but at that level the locks were relatively standard... sort of Kwikset-grade pin tumblers with traditional L keyways

    i think that for the final round of competition there was an assortment of more challenging locks. not everyone finished, if i recall.

    Originally posted by wsbpress
    Will there be tubulars, combos, SFIC's, or what?
    i would doubt that there will be combination locks since they are either shimmable (no challenge there) or require long, drawn-out safecracker type manipulation that isn't typically covered in sporting groups. tubular locks and SFIC cores require specialized tools beyond standard picks and thus don't often make an appearance in timed rounds. (although i suggested that there be a "prize board" with small, cubicle style boxes all behind doors secured with various exotic locks. people could attempt to pick them open at their liesure during the three day con, and anyone who did so would be able to claim a prize listed on a card inside the box. it would require a lot of setup time, however, and i don't think that is going to happen this year.)

    i don't speak for the organizers of the LPCON in any way, but i imagine we'll be seeing more of the same type of locks that have been used before. varjeal of LP101 is contributing them this time around, i've heard, so we can be certain that they'll operate well and be pinned alike, etc.

    Originally posted by wsbpress
    This is my first DEFCON and I am really looking forward to it. I just have no idea what to expect.
    great to have you. if you find me at any point be sure to say hi. i'll offer the first drink, the second one's on you.
    "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
    - Trent Reznor

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Deviant Ollam
      i would doubt that there will be combination locks
      We will have a combination lock on the Obstacle Course, but that will be the only place where you would find one. We also have a tubular lock on the course, as well as a few other things.

      Other than the Obstacle Course, we do offer the Demo Boards which have a variety of locks, we even have handcuffs that you can fiddle with.

      (although i suggested that there be a "prize board" with small, cubicle style boxes all behind locked doors with various exotic locks. if people pick them open at any point they can claim a prize listed on a card inside the box. don't know if that was going to happen or not this year.)
      We took this suggestion into consideration, however I'm not going to tell you what we decided on, so I guess inorder to find out you'll have to come and check out the contest.
      "It is difficult not to wonder whether that combination of elements which produces a machine for labor does not create also a soul of sorts, a dull resentful metallic will, which can rebel at times". Pearl S. Buck

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by lil_freak
        we even have handcuffs that you can fiddle with.
        you know, renderman will be part of my presentation showcasing some l33t handcuff skills, or the rumor goes. i just can't wait to see if he will be picking them, shimming them, or contorting his body and arms in order to wriggle out of them with no tools at all.

        then again, maybe it's all just a rumor. i guess you'll have to show up to see what happens.
        "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
        - Trent Reznor

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Deviant Ollam
          you know, renderman will be part of my presentation showcasing some l33t handcuff skills, or the rumor goes. i just can't wait to see if he will be picking them, shimming them, or contorting his body and arms in order to wriggle out of them with no tools at all.

          then again, maybe it's all just a rumor. i guess you'll have to show up to see what happens.

          I think it all depends on how drunk I am. I'm no Houdini, so don't be expecting anything like that, just a demonstration of things
          Never drink anything larger than your head!





          Comment


          • #6
            how about a lips cylinder, some abus stuff, and if i can get Matt to lend it to me a bramah.

            i'll bring a few cutaways for people and some 2 and 3 pinned cylinders for newbies to practice on.

            Deviant, should i bring any spare pick-sets?

            -mouse
            One Voter really can make a difference. Ask me how!

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            • #7
              You can expect Knobs, Deadbolts and padlocks for the timed comp. Nothing fancy since time is the issue. However expect something slightly better than kwikset since these are good Canadian locks :)

              /me warms up the bogota rake
              Never drink anything larger than your head!





              Comment


              • #8
                splendid to see you here on the forums, mouse!
                Originally posted by mouseling
                how about a lips cylinder, some abus stuff, and if i can get Matt to lend it to me a bramah.
                sounds like terrific stuff for the public area. they're recently re-worked the speaker schedule in such a way that those of us who are lock enthusasts will have a hell of a saturday afternoon. (i'm going to have to change the competition time of the BCCC to either friday or sunday at noon... what would people prefer? i'll post a poll in another thread, methinks) i'd love to see a bramah... never had my hands on one. if that BEST SFIC padlock and the Schlage everest core appear, i'd be thrilled with a chance to fiddle with them.
                Originally posted by mouseling
                i'll bring a few cutaways for people and some 2 and 3 pinned cylinders for newbies to practice on. ... Deviant, should i bring any spare pick-sets?
                the more gear, the merrier... just be aware that the scene tends to get really crazy (and i suspect that this year there will be more of a madhouse than ever before, what with the attention and interest that sport picking has generated) so i wouldn't reccomend letting people you've never met borrow your picks. i'm going to have a bunch of southord sets available for the public, but i'm going to ask for people to deposit cash which we'll hold on to until the set is returned.
                "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
                - Trent Reznor

                Comment


                • #9
                  Pretty much everything said so far is correct.

                  For the speed competition, a standard set of tools will be all you need. If you plan to test your mettle on the obstacle course, bring all your tools as you never know what will be on there!

                  All the locks will be keyed exactly the same in each round, in order to keep things as fair as possible. Their will be no high security features such as spooled pins or "grooved" (can never remember the name of these) pins. The contest is to demonstrate the speed at which these security devices can be bypassed in a typical residential or small business environment (yes, these types of locks appear elsewhere, but we're looking at those that don't pay attentions to physical security, think Wifi type ignorance).

                  I'm very excited about the possibility of speakers and experienced physical security experts hanging out in the contest room doing demonstrations and generally interacting with those just learning about locks. I would like to invite any and all who are interested in sharing their knowledge or demonstrating different types of locks to stop by the Athena room. The demo boards provided by dc719 always keep a constant crowd of people, so there will be plenty of people interested in what you have to say.

                  Yes, Varjeal and Freaky from lp101.com teamed up to sponsor the event this year, so that we can make things as fair as possible with higher quality locks all keyed the same. I can't thank them enough for their contributions. If your buying lockpicks at the con, stop by the IU booth and ask for Freaky. Tell them KaiGoth sent you, but don't ask for my "discount" or they'll add a $5 handling fee! ;)

                  We'll be selling some kick ass t-shirts and hats to help pay for the contest as well this year (with a donation from DT the first year, I have been funding the contest out of pocket). The contest is upgraded every year, with higher quality components like the new timer last year and new locks this year. We are rebuilding some of the boards as well. I am always open to suggestions on how to make the event better, so feel free to hit me up at the con or send me an email as well.

                  Lastly, while I'm going on and on and on, I would like to point ouit www.locksport.com. This is a new organization with the goal of building lockpicking groups kind of like the DC groups. They also want to begin hosting and regulating lockpicking events/contests, and I am hoping to get the LPCON more involved with them to help share the fun of the sport/hobby. One of their goals is to legitimize the activity, so that criminal enforcement agencies don't give us a hard time. Can you imagine the threat of criminal charges just for having Nessus installed on your laptop? That's what those who posess lockpicks face in some areas.

                  Anyways, off my soapbox. Hope I've confirmed the answers you've already received. Please feel free to contact me or post any other questions.

                  Kai

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kai
                    "grooved" (can never remember the name of these) pins.
                    "Mushroom", "Spool", "Serrated", "Interlocking" (for angular/angular cut keys)

                    I think you mean either serrated or interlocking pins.

                    HTH :-)

                    BTW, I have posted my negative feelings on how the the WiFi contest has been, but I want to be constructive too. I can do this by pointing out contests that I like. I think the way you and your group have been running the LP Contest is great. This has been an example of a well run contest. I also like the Scavenger Hunt-- especially with the controversy it generates near the end of the game. I also like how the War Driving competition has been changed to make intelligent, and original creativity more important than brute force.

                    Of course, the opinions expressed here are those of a spectator, whose opinions don't necessarily matter. ;-)
                    TheCotMan
                    *****Retired *****
                    Last edited by TheCotMan; July 13, 2005, 10:19.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by TheCotMan
                      "Mushroom", "Spool", "Serrated", "Interlocking" (for angular/angular cut keys)

                      I think you mean either serrated or interlocking pins.

                      HTH :-)

                      BTW, I have posted my negative feelings on how the the WiFi contest has been, but I want to be constructive too. I can do this by pointing out contests that I like. I think they way you and your group have been running the LP Contest is great. This has been an example of a well run contest. I also like the Scavenger Hunt-- especially with the controversy it generates near the end of the game. I also like how the War Driving competition has been changed to make intelligent, and original creativity more important than brute force.

                      Of course, the opinions expressed here are those of a spectator, whose opinions don't necessarily matter. ;-)
                      Yep, serrated.



                      I appreciate the sentiments about the contest, but we can't really take much of the credit for it. That goes to all the spectators and contestants. We're more like janitors, making it easier for everyone else to enjoy an organized lockpicking event. My goal is to have the best time I can as a spectator, learning from a lot of the people involved. In order to do that, I need the contest to go as smoothly as possible. So every year we try and "adjust" things to make them a little bit better without really changing the format much. Every year I'm a total worry wart as we change something like the sensors and the timer. This year we are using different brand locks all keyed the same for each round. They are a little more difficult, but should still be considered on the low end as far as difficulty goes. Until the end of round one this year and I (hopefully) see that people aren't falling apart on the small jump of difficulty, I'll be a nervous wreck!

                      So basically I'm very selfish in wanting the contest to go smoothly, not for anyone else, but so I can learn from others and see some great skills in action! They're are a lot of cool things I'd like to see added to the contest, but we'll see if I can ever get those incorporated. Now that we've got some really great sponsors, maybe I can do some of those things next year.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Kai
                        We're more like janitors, making it easier for everyone else to enjoy an organized lockpicking event.
                        Kai, why does it have to be janitors? Can't we be something more like secretaries?
                        "It is difficult not to wonder whether that combination of elements which produces a machine for labor does not create also a soul of sorts, a dull resentful metallic will, which can rebel at times". Pearl S. Buck

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by lil_freak
                          Kai, why does it have to be janitors? Can't we be something more like secretaries?
                          Because there was only one contestant I wouldn't mind being sexually harassed by last year! Too much testosterone in this group. Get the female contingent in the contest to grow and they can call me whatever they want.

                          Did I say that out loud?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Kai
                            We're more like janitors, making it easier for everyone else to enjoy an organized lockpicking event.
                            Perhaps this is the reason you received praise from TheCotMan, no?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TheCotMan
                              "Mushroom", "Spool", "Serrated", "Interlocking" (for angular/angular cut keys)

                              I think you mean either serrated or interlocking pins.
                              Speaking of, does anyone have a good cutaway of a lock with those types? I would love to be able to pick at one where I could see what I am doing to learn the proper technique.
                              Happiness is a belt-fed weapon.

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