Defcon 14 DefconBots Rules

**sciguy** · September 12, 2005, 03:06

contest questions...

my design is started, but I wanted to clarify a few things to make sure that my design will function in the contest environment.
1) with regards to moving targets, will they be space limited to an area or could they move around the entire 5' by 5' target area?
2) also, how fast might the little guys go? I need to make sure that the tracking controls are fast enough to catch the little guys...
3) the target area depicted shows the 5' x 5' area raised above the ground. There is a comment made that the targets and shelves could be anywhere. You have constrained the shelves to a 5' by 5' area, so the only variable left for the shelves is the height that they are in relationship to the firing line given that the horizontal relationship has no bearing to the firing line. What limits are you setting for height above the ground? If I need to be able to fire with the shelves on the ground or ten feet up in the air, I would need to calculate varying drops on the BB trajectory.
4) will the shelves have an open back or can we expect the possibilities of richochets?

See you at the firing line...

**kallahar** · September 12, 2005, 08:03

1) The moving targets could be anywhere within the target area.
2) The speeds will be secret :) Of course, the faster you can target, the better off you'll be. I'll probably try to make it so that *no* realistic bot will be able to get 100% of the points.
3) Since you can set your targeting pedestal at any height you want, I'm figuring the target area will be 5'x5', raised maybe a few feet off the ground. Then your pedestal's height will be at the center of the 5x5. I'm still working on the exact arena, but that'll be my design guidelines.
4) The back of the arena will be something to deaden the shots, so the only ricochet should be if you hit supports, etc.

**lowtec** · September 12, 2005, 08:56

Ok, this sounds like a cool competition. I'm wondering if you considered using IR detectors as targets and have bots shoot IR instead of small fast moving projectiles. Just a suggestion ;)

**kallahar** · September 13, 2005, 07:27

where's the destructive fun value in shooting photons? :)

**doodle** · September 14, 2005, 07:26

I was wondering if you could answer a few questions.

1. Will the moving targets ever pass in front of or behind any other target either white or black?

2. Will all the LED's used be red or white? In your reference design you used infrared filters to block out outside light but that filter may not easily detect a target that has a blue LED.

I think you already answered my other questions before.

Thanks and this looks like it could be a lot of fun.

**Siviak** · September 14, 2005, 10:44

Originally posted by kallahar

4) The back of the arena will be something to deaden the shots, so the only ricochet should be if you hit supports, etc.

COWARDS!!!! half the fun of airsoft is the ricochet's!!!! you gotta stick and move ... wuss

**astcell** · September 14, 2005, 13:04

I really really really want to buy an M249SAW and have Kallahar mod it for me. it is the same principle as the airsoft gun he has now, only on a real cool scale.

I can see it becoming a goon tool for DC14. :>

**AlxRogan** · September 14, 2005, 19:12

Originally posted by astcell

I really really really want to buy an M249SAW and have Kallahar mod it for me. it is the same principle as the airsoft gun he has now, only on a real cool scale.

I can see it becoming a goon tool for DC14. :>

"Honest officer, I don't know how this airsoft gun ended up shooting 5.56 on Saturday night!!"

**sciguy** · September 15, 2005, 02:42

Originally posted by kallahar

where's the destructive fun value in shooting photons? :)

I agree with that! Actually I am more concerned about creating something that will toast the targets. It is amazing what a airsoft pellet can do traveling at 1000fps... Are we supposed to include Asimov's robot rules??? or can we just put in a friendly warning to run...

**sciguy** · September 15, 2005, 02:47

Originally posted by doodle

I was wondering if you could answer a few questions.

1. Will the moving targets ever pass in front of or behind any other target either white or black?

2. Will all the LED's used be red or white? In your reference design you used infrared filters to block out outside light but that filter may not easily detect a target that has a blue LED.

I think you already answered my other questions before.

Thanks and this looks like it could be a lot of fun.

correct me if I am wrong kallahar, but the targets will be infrared LEDs. The idea of the filter was to block out visible light to the targeting camera, so the software could basically look for bright spots (i.e. targets to blast).

As for having things move in front of each other, probably. Already been said that kallahar will "attempt" to create a target situation that no one will succeed at 100% (is there a ring of a challenge there? :)

**kallahar** · September 15, 2005, 08:02

Correct, targets are 940nm IR LED's in a T1 3/4 package, jameco part #106526PS on a white circular background.

http://defconbots.org/design_targets.php

Targets crossing over each other sounds like a good idea :) I'll probably not have them cross black targets though, since the real point of those was just to prevent wide spread shotgun approaches.

I'll work on the reference design tracking software soon, and get that up on the web, then I'll have a better idea what sort of targets to make. Based on our testing at CoonCon they will be hinged to the shelf, and will have to be made of something pretty durable.

http://23b.org/gallery/CoonCon2005?page=2

**sciguy** · September 22, 2005, 16:21

Max # of targets

been contemplating ammo capacity and realized that there were no maximum number of targets specified. Obviously need spare ammo for misses (catching up with those pesky moving, spinning targets - didn't mean GOONS, unless they are wearing an IR broach...). Was there a max # of targets that we need to design for?

**kallahar** · September 23, 2005, 07:43

Probably 15-20 targets. You can reload manually if you need to, but the clock doesn't stop. Just put an open-air hopper on top and you should be fine.

**FlyingDutchman** · September 23, 2005, 08:56

Servo restrictions?

I stumbled across this contest and thought it would be a good fit for another project I am considering, building a remote camera that can follow (GPS or burn signature) a 9 foot ‘model’ rocket lifting off and gaining Mach 1.2 at T+1.4s.

This event takes place in September 2006 and since Defcon takes place before this I might be able to combine both projects and test-drive the servo setup and steering.

Of course the servo assembly would be quite bulky and heavy, as it would have to handle a 6 pound receiver assembly for the (2nd) on-board camera, at excessive speed, so I might find that weight handling capabilities, speed requirements and precision might not be achieved at a reasonable cost. Although I still would have to design the optical target recognition and tracking software I am willing to try..

Although the rules list that there are no price and weight restrictions, I would like to confirm that if I do show up with a, say, 18 pound design (excluding marker) that is as bulky as a cubic foot (and a half?) I will not be frowned upon

Also, will there be provisions for setups that have to be lifted off the ground, as tripods will not cut it in many cases, and tables might not bring the units far enough off the ground?

Now I come to think of it, it would be great to know the max angles required.

Thx.

Defcon 14 DefconBots Rules

Defcon 14 DefconBots Rules

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