HHD Gone in 60 seconds?

[Ridirich]

Least expensive solution is a hot swap raid system though. If the computer is being used for something where people are going to come in to try to take it, you will want your drives. Simply pull them out and then it is 100% sure that the date is not recoverable(unless you get caught)

[astcell]

The data in your RAM chips may be recoverable however.

[CP99]

The data in your RAM chips may be recoverable however.

If we go back to the destructive aspect of this, You can pull the drives, but a small explosive, triggered by the removal of the drives, can destroy the RAM chips.

[Ridirich]

Bingo. (Post was too short, so my one word reply must now include this mumblejumbleexplainationrunonsentance.)

[robman]

Wow, this post is actually becoming educational. I didn't know data was kept alive on the RAM. I'm using knoppix for the moment, and I have always wondered if it was possible that a virus could stay on the RAM between shutoffs.

What if you put in a floppy, and told it to zero write the disks? It wouldn't be a 60 second event, but wouldn't that be unrecoverable?

[CP99]

Wow, this post is actually becoming educational. I didn't know data was kept alive on the RAM. I'm using knoppix for the moment, and I have always wondered if it was possible that a virus could stay on the RAM between shutoffs.

What if you put in a floppy, and told it to zero write the disks? It wouldn't be a 60 second event, but wouldn't that be unrecoverable?

Im pretty sure RAM is cleared on each shutdown.

[TheCotMan]

I didn't know data was kept alive on the RAM.

It can be, depending on the kind of RAM, and what is being used to examine the RAM.

I have always wondered if it was possible that a virus could stay on the RAM between shutoffs.

Just because there is risk for data leakage with some information remaining in RAM between reboots does not mean your own system can detect the data leakage or make sense of it However, there are kinds of RAM that allow for storage of data between reboots while having low risk for data loss (e.g. NVRAM.)

One of the earliest examples I saw of data surviving reboots was while using an Apple ][e. It was possible to play a game that used HighRes screen page 1 or 2, and when you played to a stage that you wanted to screen-capture, you could immediately reboot to a DOS 3.3 boot disk (control-apple-reset) and then save A$2000,L$2000 or A$4000,L$2000 (depending on the page) and then have a nearly perfect image of what was on the screen just before reboot. (2 or 3 stray lines of "static" might exist, but that was it.)
The longer you held down control-apple-reset, the less the data that was there, and a power-off reboot left even less data remained.
Different kinds of RAM are in use today. Just how long it remains at risk for leakage depends on the kind of RAM, the requirements for detecting the data, and what methods are used to detect the data.

Many PDA/Palm devices use a kind of RAM that requires very little power to read, but a lot of power to write. (similar to EEPROM) Variations on this kind of "RAM" allow data to remain long after batteries are removed, and "files" are deleted. (There are many stories about this with people thinking content on their PDA was gone, but law enforcement foresnics people finding otherwise. Try google.)

What if you put in a floppy, and told it to zero write the disks? It wouldn't be a 60 second event, but wouldn't that be unrecoverable?

Floppy disks have the same kind of problem as hard disks where there is drift of the magnetic head as it passes each track sector. The edges not overwritten allow for some leakage of data.

[Deviant Ollam]

Wow, this post is actually becoming educational. I didn't know data was kept alive on the RAM. I'm using knoppix for the moment, and I have always wondered if it was possible that a virus could stay on the RAM between shutoffs.

do not confuse the idea of the data being recoverable and being still readable. modern RAM is volatile memory, not to mention that nearly all home computing hardware goes through a process of initialization and self-check with the memory modules. while whatever was in there can leave an impression that is detectable by very specialized forensic equipment, the leftover data would not be in any condition to be read by a home computer the next time it boots up, i think. interestingly, those who know about the history of computing are aware of non-volatile ferrite core memory which relied on polarity of magnets to store binary data. this memory would, in fact, hold its contents quite effectively even during entire power outages or system restarts... quite a benefit considering the nature of computers back in those early days.

What if you put in a floppy, and told it to zero write the disks? It wouldn't be a 60 second event, but wouldn't that be unrecoverable?

not exactly. once again, don't confuse data that is lost to the user with data that is lost forever. remember, a hard disk drive stores data with the use of loads of tiny iron filings for every single bit that it reads and writes. each one and zero are comprised of many many ferrite bits. think of it like making a message in morse code in the grass of a lawn... (follow me on this analogy)

you take a large lawn. you lay pizza pans in a long line in the grass, maybe you put a brick on top of each one. after a few hours, you remove the pans. the blades of grass in those spots are all bent down now. a person flying overhead (i.e. - the reader heads on a hard drive's arm) could look down at the lawn and read the morse code message. say you want to erase the message as you described above. so, you lay plywood down all over the whole lawn. when removed, ALL the blades of grass are bent down. most likely the guy flying overhead will no longer be able to discern what was there before. a home computer will report a disk to be totally empty if it is low-level formatted (zeroes written everywhere)

however, a person who inspects the lawn closely can likely tell where the pizza pans were laid since the grass blades will be bent over in different ways there than elsewhere. this sort of data recovery is within the bugets of even the most meager state-level institutions like law enforcement and district attorney offices.

so, you say, instead of using plywood... you'll run through the lawn pushing the grass every which way with your hands. better... but still recoverable. anyone who's ever tried to make carpeting "stand up" again after moving furniture knows what i mean there.

essentially, what you'd want to do (and what real data wipe software does) is a process of numerous passes using a combination of these sorts of techniques. i think that the currently-accepted Department of Defense standard for wiping data from a drive is a seven-pass algorithm.... first the drive is zeroed. then it is striped with ones. then it is filled with random garbage data. then zeroed again, etc. i don't know the actual algorithm.

that will pretty much put your data out of reach by local and state officials. if you're doing something that feds are taking an interest in (or if you're affiliated with a Very Not Nice Foreign Power and have aroused the interest of spooky individuals) then you might not be totally out of the woods. personally, just for good measure, i set my data drive wipe tools to use the Guttman Method... which is a 35-pass procedure that makes many varying patterns and so forth, totally obscuring whatever was there before. takes a bit of time, tho... especially on the terrabyte array.

[Deviant Ollam]

bah, i should have typed faster. CotMan beat me to the punch.

also, i think i mixed up wipe algorithm names above... the DoD method is only a three-pass system... once with zeros, then once with ones, then a fill with random data. what i described (the seven pass system) is, i believe, the NSA standard.

[robman]

Ah. Good analogy. I understand it better now. If you don't mind me asking, where do you aquire such an in depth knowledge of such an obscure topic?

[Deviant Ollam]

Ah. Good analogy. I understand it better now.

thanks, man. those who know me could tell you that i use analogies more than Plato. sometimes they can get a bit obscure but i always am glad when i get the point across.

If you don't mind me asking, where do you aquire such an in depth knowledge of such an obscure topic?

flying space monkeys gave me a lift to a city in the clouds where i was seated on a fuzzy couch and given large quantities of hallucinogenic mushrooms. the monkeys then proceeded to educate me on a wide array of topics using hand symbols and pie charts.

actually all i ever did was cultivate an active curiousity about technical things, work in a variety of jobs with people more experienced than me but who were willing to explain things if i showed an interest, and i never was satisfied by merely using something as opposed to taking it apart and seeing how it worked. that and i read more in a year than most people do in a lifetime.

i think you'd find this to be a relatively typical description of a lot of the people on these forums, acutally. there are a few, however, for whom i wouldn't discount the monkey scenario.

[josh_b_010]

thermite

Thermite is your friend. Reduce your drive to a heap of slag metal in far less than 60 seconds

i know how to make thermite, wanna know how?

[Asbestos]

Only if it'll make me cool.

[josh_b_010]

depends

Only if it'll make me cool.

it depends on how you use it, if you rob a bank with it, thats ok.
if you use it to boil water for ramen noodle, well, have fun with it.
it can light asphalt on fire with it.

have fun

[Ridirich]

How about making Napalm, it's even cheaper?

You know...that would most definitly reduce a computer to rubble in 60 seconds or less.

Ok, You put together a computer(specs don't matter) and have the removeable drives....

To trigger it, you would have a switch, simular to that the oldschool planes carried. This switch is attached to one of the power supply cables in the PC. You could actually mod the case to have this, it would not take that long to do either if you had a drill or something simular.

Now, go get some tubberware, some electric cable, some superglue, some jello, some gasoline, some lighter fluid and a condom. Make your napalm(if you don't know how, I am not saying, but I believe it blantantly obvious with the instructions included here...), put the napalm in the tubberware, make sure the electric cable has the leads cut off so the metal is touching put the electric cable in the condom with the lighter fluid, use a rubber band to secure it then superglue the rest shut. put the condom, wire attached, into the napalm, superglue the lid, shut the lid. Refrigerate(we would not want boomy, would we?) then, after it is nice and cool, mount the tubberware into the case at a place where there is a fan so it does not get too hot. Less heat, the better. Now, attach the wire to the arming switch, which you have made sure is OFF.

Ok, now to make it work. Remove the drives, flip the switch and run. It will melt everything which is just as good as blowing it up.


A cheaper idea is to get a mini-atx case, build the pc inside that without blowing it up. Put a handle on top for ease of transport. That way the only things you leave are the input devices and monitor(s).