Nasa

[robosycho]

Has anyone else seen NASA's newest "plan"? It involves taking newer launch techniques into account and using the Apollo spacecraft technology for a great "new" way of getting to the moon. Meanwhile Virgin Galactic is selling rides to sub-orbital space. Sub meaning below. Meaning Mr. Bigelow is making money off of something NASA has been doing for several years now. So NASA admits defeat while entepreneurs all go off and make money off of old tech. End result is we win, but still...

Ah NASA, where are the old glory days... If only the USSR were still around to encourage us to greater things...

[Deviant Ollam]

i'd like to know where the mid-orbit space elevator is which would allegedly have been able to get payloads into the upper atmosphere at something like 1/10th the cost of rockets. anyone else remember this proposal from about a year or two ago? it was accompanied by rather significant fanfare, but then again what isn't as far as space goes.

[CP99]

i'd like to know where the mid-orbit space elevator is which would allegedly have been able to get payloads into the upper atmosphere at something like 1/10th the cost of rockets. anyone else remember this proposal from about a year or two ago? it was accompanied by rather significant fanfare, but then again what isn't as far as space goes.

"The space tower is a good concept for science fiction writers, but until new materials are developed and cheaper ways to reach orbit are found, the space tower will remain a dream." aka Space elevator

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy...acetowers.html

[robosycho]

"The space tower is a good concept for science fiction writers, but until new materials are developed and cheaper ways to reach orbit are found, the space tower will remain a dream." aka Space elevator

http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy...acetowers.html

Yeah, that idea bit the bullet after NASA had issues figuring that out for itself. Then they developed a series of "challenges" to try and get some ideas from other people. That vanished from the public scene after the first section of it. Haven't looked recently for any more info on it, and not entirely sure that the idea was a good one and enjoying the fact that for its completion, the entire thing would have to be built from either the base station or the space station, either partially or completely. Then you wonder how you would launch a huge engine, basically, filled with fuel to correct any rotational issues that the tech guys missed the first time around. Oh yes and if it fell, the large sections of pole that would be left behind along with the splinters... Or better yet, a spear from space... The forces involved would destroy its target on impact. Try running that one by the environment enthusiasts.

[blauman]

Robosycho, I think we are fairly close to a moment of change in the way NASA does things... and after all, we are getting closer to discover the way to put a twist to the Electromagnetic theory, literally it will soon send the spinning wave, the change in how we produce lift, propulsion and open the way to many more ideas. The economic grow had been slow but steady and eventually will determinate the how fast we can get there.

Back in time some half century ago, there was people playing with Lasers targeting little glass spheres, and measured the total lift experienced vs. wave length and power, nearly a lustro and a half after that others were experimenting with a submergible model using RF as propulsion... a decade later the whole new experiments with radar, deflecting, absorbing waves.
Gravity's behavior is very similar ways to how the electromagnetic phenomena behave from a mathematical point of view when gravity acts over a multidimensional space... Obviously humans can not perceive beyond the typical 3 dimensional space, and even so, a large population ignore always at their own discretion at least one dimension at any given time. The strength of the gravity acting over any specific distant object when measured it shows only a partial component been measure, this is the strength within a 3 dimensional space, and we leave the leak as irrelevant. However since there is a relation between the electromagnetic phenomena and the way it can travel through our space, it is matter of time before we can figure out how to twist tables around and put an electromagnetic portion into the leaking gravity field. After all, gravity component in our 3 dimensional space is the weakest of all the 4 forces in the universe.

The idea of open a challenge to other people out there to get some outside input is a good start, at least in my eyes...

[robosycho]

Robosycho, I think we are fairly close to a moment of change in the way NASA does things... and after all, we are getting closer to discover the way to put a twist to the Electromagnetic theory, literally it will soon send the spinning wave, the change in how we produce lift, propulsion and open the way to many more ideas. The economic grow had been slow but steady and eventually will determinate the how fast we can get there.

You lost me at a twist... But what I gather from what you're saying is to warp the classic laws of physics, use electromagnetic waves to produce a force on an object? And how does that relate to the photons vs waves of light? And the fact that motors all these years operate based on the electric fields of something, is there a possible way to ride the Earth's waves starting at the south pole and then out of the atmosphere and then disengaging somehow? If all it took were a form of electricity consumption, thats a relatively cheap to come by compared to the solid and liquid fuels being used in most rockets.

!E

[xwred1]

I met a guy who was really into trying to advance the idea of a high-altitude space elevator. Apparently he's made presentations to people who are important, but they didn't run with it for whatever reason. He's still trying to promote it... he has discussion and presentations on his website:
www.affordablespaceflight.com

Personally, NASA seems pretty uninteresting these days. The mars rovers are cool and all, but I'm not old enough to have been around in their heyday. My family is from central florida, growing up I could watch shuttle launches from my backyard. One of my uncles used to be a NASA contractor. He lived at Cape Canaveral when things were booming, in the 60s. When you watch Apollo 13 or From the Earth to the Moon, you get a sense of what the excitement must have been like. They were genuinely developing new things and making huge strides forward. You still get a feel of that when you go to a NASA space center tourist place. Its disappointing that for my generation, humans have been stuck in low earth orbit.

:(

[Ridirich]

I know this is a crappy site I am linking, but it gives an idea of what I saw on the history channel, here is another link. I was watching the history channel, as I mentioned before, and saw a show called 'the real ufos'. Apparently during WW2, many countries took German technology. Russia and the US got the most, and this is how they did the 'space race', because previous to this they did not have minds dedicated to these projects.

In any event, I think NASA is 'boring' right now because most of it's funding has been cut, and what little it has left is put to projects simular to these craft to avoid radar, and to put on a space show and the occasional fake mission to take our eyes off their true endeavor. Oh, and I don't believe aliens take people into ships, I belive that we make ships and people see them.

Call me paranoid, but paranoia is a heightened state of reality.

[valkyrie]

You lost me at a twist... But what I gather from what you're saying is to warp the classic laws of physics, use electromagnetic waves to produce a force on an object? And how does that relate to the photons vs waves of light? And the fact that motors all these years operate based on the electric fields of something, is there a possible way to ride the Earth's waves starting at the south pole and then out of the atmosphere and then disengaging somehow? If all it took were a form of electricity consumption, thats a relatively cheap to come by compared to the solid and liquid fuels being used in most rockets.

!E

Because excitation of photon activity to ellicit consumptable power is different than that which is necessary to excite light waves to ellict the same activity. Same principle, somewhat different application or causality. Motors, as we two-leggers know them, have worked all these years based upon a set of pre-determined principles because of several factors; some practical and some political/social, so I will not ennumerate my opinions regarding that in this forum. I suppose my point is that unless we are willing to adopt the idea that "energy" can be an inexpensive, renewable thing, (and this idea has been demonstrated repeatedly and disgarded because it upsets the status quo), we will keep drinking the scarcity cool-aid that has been fed to us for eons.

"We can fly on the wings of angels. We can own the cosmos. That in and of itself, is a frightening thought. The unenlightened do not wish this kind of freedom, however, unto whom much has been given, much will be required. Eventually, we will live up to our birthright." Lady Ada Lovelace, the Icon of the ADA programming language and a rock awesome hacker.

Stay shiny!

v

[xwred1]

You lost me at a twist... But what I gather from what you're saying is to warp the classic laws of physics, use electromagnetic waves to produce a force on an object?

EM radiation already produces force on an object, there's no warping of any laws involved: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_pressure

Because excitation of photon activity to ellicit consumptable power is different than that which is necessary to excite light waves to ellict the same activity.

what

I suppose my point is that unless we are willing to adopt the idea that "energy" can be an inexpensive, renewable thing

It takes energy to make energy. You need to find energy that you didn't have to pay for. Gasoline wouldn't be nearly as good as it is now if we had to go through the effort of feeding all the animals over the course of their lifetimes and waiting around millions of years after they died in order to use the fuel. Thats a net energy loss there... more energy was put in than is held in the oil, but we didn't have to come up with the initial energy.

[valkyrie]

EM radiation already produces force on an object, there's no warping of any laws involved: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_pressure



what

what what? Correct. It takes energy to make energy. That is a correct statement, a correct assumption. Excitation to make energy at the photon level and at the light wave level and at the animal level are all different. The processes may be similar but the actual steps are different. What is it that we are not connecting on here?

It takes energy to make energy. You need to find energy that you didn't have to pay for. Gasoline wouldn't be nearly as good as it is now if we had to go through the effort of feeding all the animals over the course of their lifetimes and waiting around millions of years after they died in order to use the fuel. Thats a net energy loss there... more energy was put in than is held in the oil, but we didn't have to come up with the initial energy.

I agree with your first statement. It takes energy to make energy. No, I do not need to "find" energy that I don't have to pay for. Ever heard of solar? May not work in the great white north, however it works quite nicely down here, thank you. And the only investment was the solar panels. Stone floors. A lot of southern and western exposure windows. Hold heat in the winter, cool down in the summer. Oh, and have we yet touched on the power of the wind? Free, free, free. haha! My power bill last year was in the negative numbers -- that means I can sell it back to the city or county or my neighbors. Or not. Living life on this plant is all about making choices, and hacking, if you will, how you want things to be. If you chose to be limited by what you see in front of your face, so be it. I hope I am relatively free of those assumptions.

Stay shiny!

V

[valkyrie]

Oh, and just as a personal aside. I think Wipedia sucks.

[astcell]

Oh, and just as a personal aside. I think Wipedia sucks.

That's because it is done by normal people and most normal people suck.

[valkyrie]

That's because it is done by normal people and most normal people suck.

do they suck hard?

:-)

[Deviant Ollam]

do they suck hard?

only if they're really committed to getting the job done.

personally, i find wikipedia to be a mixed bag. so much depends on the dedication and knowledge of the person authoring the particular article. in all, i like the idea of wikipedia... a public-knowledge forum. it's gotten better now that there are some rudimentary fucktard protections like the "i dispute the validity of this" button and the "let's talk it over more in this forum" sort of areas.