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April 5, 2006 LPCON Update

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  • April 5, 2006 LPCON Update

    I wanted to summarize all the suggestions and get some final feedback (and make comments and answer questions). Thanks all for the suggestions and now is the time to make any final suggestions.

    First off, my handle is Doc, but it was already taken on the forums, so I am Doc-LPCON. I am in no way associated with the "DOC". I am in no way responsible for Deviant's branding.

    The old stuff
    1) Do I have the old gear - Yes, I have shit loads of old stuff. Some of it will be reused, some will be trashed pending the final configuration.
    2) Do I have the electronic timer - Yes, thanks to Kai I have that as well. It will obviously used for the timed competition.
    3) Where is the LPCON Rules for 2006 - I'm working on that, it will be posted under www.securitytribe.com/~doc/lpcon4/
    4) Anti-Earthquake tables - as Kai said, we understand the problem. If we can get something better from the new hotel we will. Or if I can build something that will work better, will try to make that happen too. The problem is transportation of all the stuff that has to go to Vegas.
    5) We have enough gear that what I would like to do is have the really really easy locks in round one and more difficult locks as the contest proceeds. The tower would still be involved in the finals, but maybe only for the final 4.

    Obstacle Course
    1) Lockpicking Village suggestion is awesome. It comes down to having time to build something. We are also going to be limited (as usual) on space, so we have to make sure we can fit. The other challenge is swag. Does anybody work for an organization that might be willing to donate some prizes/money in return for recognition?
    2) Labels on difficulty are a great idea. Who develops the rating system? haha

    Demos and Lectures
    1) I am open to other groups bringing in Lockboards or other challenges that would not officially be part of the contest, but might give some exposure to different stuff. Just know that they may have to store the stuff someplace else when we are not actually in the area. I am trying to get details of the space, but don't beleive DEFCON organizers have made final decisions on it yet.
    2) I would like to organize some LP " lectures" around the competition. If you are willing to give a demo and talk about Lockpicking, please let me know for sure, and what you would be able to talk about. Newbie talks would come first, them maybe some advanced talks as the contest proceeds.

    Tshirts
    - I have a shitload of last years t-shirts and hats (thanks again kai). They can be given away as prizes and sold (cheap). Anybody have ideas for a t-shirt design for LPCON 4 at DEFCON 14? I am not very artistic and need help here.

    Picking a Slot Machine
    - Not going there!!!!

    LPCON Future
    - I am looking for someone that would be interested in taking over the LPCON planning after this year. That doesn't mean myself or Kai wouldn't be involved, but new blood/ideas are going to be needed. Think about it, let me know.

    Did I miss anything?

    Doc

  • #2
    a question i have at the moment pertains to physical logistics... the "lockpick village" (and btw i'm thrilled that so many people like this idea, lots of us in Toool-USA are looking forward to running it, offering frequent talks, guiding people in hands-on demos with tools available, etc) has been proposed as one of the possible uses for a skybox. we really like that idea, but so far i've not heard a definite on whether or not that is a guarantee. looks like Grifter's in charge of the selection process, so i'll i'll coordinate with him on this after we finalize a couple things in this thread.

    as far as the competitions go, what are your thoughts on their location? it seems like you forsee the obstacle course / prize lockers as being in the lockpick village... that makes sense to me since those of us running the village can keep an eye out to make sure that no frustrated persons try to brute force the hardware (or the lockers themselves) and we can also repopulate the lockers with additional prizes (since the easiest ones will be popped open frequently, i'd imagine)

    as far as the timed competition... would that also be taking place in the lockpick skybox or would that be in another area? (will there be an official contest room again this year? or will there just be an info booth directing people to various other locations?)

    many of us who have given picking talks in the past are looking forward to offering them again. we like your idea of scheduling them around the competitions to draw larger crowds, generate interest, and explain what's going on to newbies. we'll make up a schedule regarding who will offer what talks once we know more about the speaking tracks (since many of us will try to attend certain sessions) but expect there to be at least two novice level lectures each day and at least one advanced type talk each day of con. (perhaps a sign-up sheet or voting system whereby those who are interested can tell us when the best time would be for, say, a demo exclusively concerning handcuffs or tubular picking or whatever)

    our vision for the lockpick village is a skybox that you would also have access to... one in which we place some large, highly secure containers that can store all the picks, hardware, timers, etc etc etc. during evening hours (we'll provide a few military S&G 830 series padlocks to ensure that no one messes with the gear, short of taking the entire cases out of the room)

    during evening hours the skybox could be used for any other events that need space... perhaps the forum meet or another minibosses concert.
    "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
    - Trent Reznor

    Comment


    • #3
      I'm definatly up for helping give talks at the LP village. Pick a topic and I'm sure Deviant, myself or any other Toool-USA member can cover it.

      It would make sense to me to have everything happening up in a skybox since the training, practice and comp tend to be non-linear and should be away from the talks.

      I like the idea of the obstacle course, however I think it needs to be re-thought. Rather than time trials, I prefer the idea of lockers or something containing the prize. That way it becomes self-serve and minimizes people having to sit there with stopwatch.
      Never drink anything larger than your head!





      Comment


      • #4
        let me know if you need any help. im more than willing to sit thier for 3-4 hours a day to refill prizes and to give help with talks and the like.

        Edit: and as an after thought i think i might me able to think up a way to do short tables for the lockers or the boxes that get used. ill need pics and dimensions of the boxes thought
        Soulidium (So-li-de-um) The place within us that contains the mystical spirit and soul of our creative artistry. A place where the fabric of our lives and experiences are transformed into their artistic equivalents; A housing for the very voice of our souls...

        Comment


        • #5
          I know I am new here, and my opinions don't quite count yet.

          However here is a idea you might like.

          Before the defcon. Record a short movie you can play on a couple tv's. Showing how to pick locks, Explain what each tool does and how it does it. Newbies can just hang out trying to pick simple to middle class locks. Maybe just have one person standby for questions.

          This way you can just loop the movie and newbies can practice at all times.

          Most people learn by trail and error. Also when you have several people around learning by trail and error, they can share there experience with the person next to them. This will in my opinion increase the learning curve for most people.

          I would call my self a newbie when it comes to lock picking. I bought a 40$ lock picking kit. So far I can only pick my door lock 1/3 of the time. *LUCK* I think a movie explaining everything to me would be helpfully.
          The only thing that burns in Hell is the part of you that won't let go of life, your memories, your attachments.
          They burn them all away. But they're not punishing you, he said. They're freeing your soul. So, if you're frightened of dying and... and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by INIT_6
            Record a short movie you can play on a couple tv's. Showing how to pick locks, Explain what each tool does and how it does it. Newbies can just hang out trying to pick simple to middle class locks. Maybe just have one person standby for questions.
            i do not think that is a bad idea at all. in fact, i wanted to try to put together something like that, but doubt i'd have time... i wanted to have like a flash-powered "information kiosk" that would offer people the opportunity to click on a variety of topics, then show videos, text, diagrams, etc... then return to the main menu.

            my flash isn't up to snuff, however... and since i'm writing two thesis papers at once right now i doubt i'd have something like that ready before defcon.
            "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
            - Trent Reznor

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Deviant Ollam
              a question i have at the moment pertains to physical logistics... the "lockpick village" (and btw i'm thrilled that so many people like this idea, lots of us in Toool-USA are looking forward to running it, offering frequent talks, guiding people in hands-on demos with tools available, etc) has been proposed as one of the possible uses for a skybox. we really like that idea, but so far i've not heard a definite on whether or not that is a guarantee. looks like Grifter's in charge of the selection process, so i'll i'll coordinate with him on this after we finalize a couple things in this thread.
              We do not have any official space yet. If you can naildown a skybox for LP village, that would be a great staging area. The timed competition will likely be in the competition space during specific times. The LP village could run continuously. I talked with Russ and yes, Grifter is the skybox guy. Russ is the contest guy.

              as far as the competitions go, what are your thoughts on their location? it seems like you forsee the obstacle course / prize lockers as being in the lockpick village... that makes sense to me since those of us running the village can keep an eye out to make sure that no frustrated persons try to brute force the hardware (or the lockers themselves) and we can also repopulate the lockers with additional prizes (since the easiest ones will be popped open frequently, i'd imagine)
              Agreed!!

              as far as the timed competition... would that also be taking place in the lockpick skybox or would that be in another area? (will there be an official contest room again this year? or will there just be an info booth directing people to various other locations?)
              The skybox would be too small for this, so it would need to be in the competition space. Yes directions would be good.

              many of us who have given picking talks in the past are looking forward to offering them again. we like your idea of scheduling them around the competitions to draw larger crowds, generate interest, and explain what's going on to newbies. we'll make up a schedule regarding who will offer what talks once we know more about the speaking tracks (since many of us will try to attend certain sessions) but expect there to be at least two novice level lectures each day and at least one advanced type talk each day of con. (perhaps a sign-up sheet or voting system whereby those who are interested can tell us when the best time would be for, say, a demo exclusively concerning handcuffs or tubular picking or whatever)
              Awesome, I am hopeful we will have an actual competition schedule very soon. That would also help. It would be nice if we could give a short talk at the beginning of the timed competion too, in the competition space, so that everybody got a chance to hear something useful.

              our vision for the lockpick village is a skybox that you would also have access to... one in which we place some large, highly secure containers that can store all the picks, hardware, timers, etc etc etc. during evening hours (we'll provide a few military S&G 830 series padlocks to ensure that no one messes with the gear, short of taking the entire cases out of the room)

              during evening hours the skybox could be used for any other events that need space... perhaps the forum meet or another minibosses concert.
              Thank you!!

              Originally posted by renderman
              I'm definatly up for helping give talks at the LP village. Pick a topic and I'm sure Deviant, myself or any other Toool-USA member can cover it.

              It would make sense to me to have everything happening up in a skybox since the training, practice and comp tend to be non-linear and should be away from the talks.

              I like the idea of the obstacle course, however I think it needs to be re-thought. Rather than time trials, I prefer the idea of lockers or something containing the prize. That way it becomes self-serve and minimizes people having to sit there with stopwatch.
              The more we talk about it, the more I am leaning away from the timed obstacle course too. We will need to work out the logistics.

              Originally posted by INIT_6
              I know I am new here, and my opinions don't quite count yet.

              However here is a idea you might like.

              Before the defcon. Record a short movie you can play on a couple tv's. Showing how to pick locks, Explain what each tool does and how it does it. Newbies can just hang out trying to pick simple to middle class locks. Maybe just have one person standby for questions.

              This way you can just loop the movie and newbies can practice at all times.

              Most people learn by trail and error. Also when you have several people around learning by trail and error, they can share there experience with the person next to them. This will in my opinion increase the learning curve for most people.

              I would call my self a newbie when it comes to lock picking. I bought a 40$ lock picking kit. So far I can only pick my door lock 1/3 of the time. *LUCK* I think a movie explaining everything to me would be helpfully.
              That is a great idea INIT_6. Now the hard part, HOW?? haha

              Renderman -- in another post you identified this video. Can we get permission to us some of his stuff? Is there enough to work with?

              Renderman wrote: ""You could always do like my fellow locksport international chapter president and have a catagory for most outragous tool/picking method:

              In this video he picks a lock with a Bananna!

              http://www.youtube.com/w/Pick-a-lock...?v=TbOajWDg_Ts""


              It would educational and entertaining
              Last edited by TheCotMan; April 6, 2006, 14:32. Reason: 3 posts in less than 15 minutes merged into one post.

              Comment


              • #8
                jnekrep@locksport.com - I'm sure that he'd give permission.

                I don't think that a talk before each round of comp makes much sense. Pushing the fact that we'll be up in the skybox if they are interested does make sense.
                Never drink anything larger than your head!





                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by renderman
                  jnekrep@locksport.com - I'm sure that he'd give permission.

                  I don't think that a talk before each round of comp makes much sense. Pushing the fact that we'll be up in the skybox if they are interested does make sense.
                  Thanks. I'll get in contact with him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So it will or won't fit in a skybox?
                    PGP key: dtangent@defcon.org valid 2020 Jan 15, to 2024 Jan 01 Fingerprint: BC5B CD9A C609 1B6B CD81 9636 D7C6 E96C FE66 156A

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dark Tangent
                      So it will or won't fit in a skybox?
                      i think Doc is saying that everything except for the timed competition event will fit in the skybox. as for the timed competition, i doubt that the concern for space stems from the tables and the five participants but rather the crowd that it tends to draw.
                      "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
                      - Trent Reznor

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        How bout we make it interesting. Dangle the 5 participants off the skybox by thier feet and make them pick a lock below them Mission Impossible Style!

                        Yes I do need to stop drinking and posting.

                        I think as a prep/training/hangout/village the skybox will do well with the timed contest taking place in a larger venue.
                        Never drink anything larger than your head!





                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Sure would be cool to have a lockpicking village. Any chance the gang from LockSport International could find some space in there? We'd like to promote Lock sports and especially starting clubs, etc.


                          Edit: Btw, I formally apologize for the difficulty of the locks last year.
                          Picking locks since '96.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Varjeal
                            Sure would be cool to have a lockpicking village. Any chance the gang from LockSport International could find some space in there? We'd like to promote Lock sports and especially starting clubs, etc.
                            oh, i certainly think that would be possible, given the space that those boxes will have.
                            "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
                            - Trent Reznor

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              what about my offer?
                              Soulidium (So-li-de-um) The place within us that contains the mystical spirit and soul of our creative artistry. A place where the fabric of our lives and experiences are transformed into their artistic equivalents; A housing for the very voice of our souls...

                              Comment

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