My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

[bascule]

...was that the environment had totally changed (duh). The AP was a great place for chance encounters, and most people could be found by simply wandering around the pools.

This year: not so. Plans I had arranged with people, who I had even met at one event or another, never happened because I never encountered those people the rest of con and didn't have their phone numbers. There were several people who had wanted to meet up with me later at con who I ran into at TBBQ (CotMan, Rubyman, Crash, Goathead) but never saw the entire rest of con, except at the tail end.

So what's the solution in the new environment? Should I just ask everyone for their phone numbers before con?

As things stood, I ended up spending a lot more time wandering around the strip than I did the Riviera... it just seemed much harder to find anyone, and the capacity to have totally random encounters with people totally vanished due to a lack of a central area in which to congregate.

Anyone else feel similarly?

[latras]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

I think that a message board in the chill-out/contest room would be a good idea. That's where I went if I wasn't doing anything....that and the defcon bar.

but trading cell #'s beforehand worked for me...and text messaging too...

[jedi]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

Just having a feel for the layout and understanding where the different conf rooms are will make a huge difference next year. Between the air conditioning and not having to wait in line for a talk, it was a much more mellow con.

But I agree. At the riviera, it didn't feel like there was one location where you could chill at night and encounter any number of folks. At least at the AP, the pools tended to be the central points of congregation for people looking to hang out and talk.

[BlackOrchid]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

I agree with the lack of centralization of the pool congregation. This was my major complaint during the con. But I'd like to add that even if we would have wanted to gather there:

1. We weren't allowed to bring in a cooler.

2. There was a lack of regular chairs and tables.

3. ONLY TWO umbrellas so there was a serious lack of shade.

4. NON-Con people at the pool, which removed that 'comfortability' (regarding body size, shape etc).

5. No music/DJ allowed

6. The POOL area was closed too early!

7. Where were the Jack Daniels, Heineken, booze and trinkets peddling chics? In otherwords, I missed the poolside entertainment/games...etc.

With these lacks, it seemed as if we were divided in to our already existing friendships and didn't have a great ability to meet and bond with others. The environment didn't aid in unification or communication.

[jedi]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

and I can't disagree with any of the points you've expanded on. it builds an accurate assessment of the situation. The question is, how do we solve the problem of ad-hoc socialization and entertainment without organizing?

Granted, with as mellow as the con was this year rules will be more relaxed next year. But that won't be the same as the environment that the AP allowed us to create. This could be another one of those "Evolve or die" situations, if we want to be melodramatic about it.

[noid]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

I had a very similar feeling this year. With things so spread out, and a lot of parties occuring off-site, it was hard to find people. I saw quite a few folks, but in more than a few cases I got a minute or two to catch up with them and then never saw them again. Some sort of message board would probably do the trick, or maybe a centralized, internal, Jabber server. Would be nice to hop on a local network and IM folks to find their locations and dinner plans.

[mfreeck]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

and I can't disagree with any of the points you've expanded on. it builds an accurate assessment of the situation. The question is, how do we solve the problem of ad-hoc socialization and entertainment without organizing?

How about an analog message board? Not everyone is able/wants to connect to the defcon network... sometimes analog is the best tool for the job. The problem is we're not allowed to have a big poster on the wall, but if there were some kinda sheet that was easy to browse, people could leave a msg. There will always be that person at the con that you don't have a number for, or like jackalope, you need to let people know you left your phone or somesuch. I guess if you wanted to get techy, you could do it with a database, depending on how crowded it got around the computer, since people would have to take turns at the keys.

[converge]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

Some sort of message board would probably do the trick, or maybe a centralized, internal, Jabber server.

Forums might not be the best for this, since not real time and could compromise login credentials for future use. Why not just an IRC channel of some kind? SMS really didn't do so well ..

The other difference in feel was the vast open pool/lobby area .. being crunched down into smaller hallways. Unless you roamed the main hallways at all hours of the day, you were likely to only find a specific groups with similar interests .. ie the same talks you went to, or the contest area, etc..

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

How about an analog message board? Not everyone is able/wants to connect to the defcon network... sometimes analog is the best tool for the job. The problem is we're not allowed to have a big poster on the wall, but if there were some kinda sheet that was easy to browse, people could leave a msg.

what about an old overhead projector or two? leave a bucket of erasable markers next to them and there you go... instant public noteboard.

[TheCotMan]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

Forums might not be the best for this, since not real time and could compromise login credentials for future use.

Forums support https, allowing the observant to mitigate MiM SSL-based credential gathering attacks.

Forums could work well with https, but the biggest problem with forums is the lack of computers-- many people not competing in an event requiring a computer, don't bring computers.

Why not just an IRC channel of some kind? SMS really didn't do so well ..

SMS did better than other forums, but the very unicast nature of "sessions" between people made multi-party communications increase in complexity by O(n²) time as the number of people included increased.

As for paper-based BBS, this was possible. Butcher paper, and lay a table on its side, up against the wall. Attach the paper to the face of the table, and *bam* you have a BBS that include paper not attached to the walls. Need something taller? 2 tables side-by-side leaned vertically against the wall with paper attached to their face. Things not allowed to touch the wall at all? then a single table on its side with the legs extended for support can still work.

WWMD? or WWWCD?
(What would MacGeyver Do? or What would Weslesy Crusher Do?)

The other difference in feel was the vast open pool/lobby area .. being crunched down into smaller hallways. Unless you roamed the main hallways at all hours of the day, you were likely to only find a specific groups with similar interests .. ie the same talks you went to, or the contest area, etc..

An open public space is needed. The pool is central, but afflicted with "norms" and restricted by hours. Perhaps, once we get the whole hotel or large parts of it, we can take over the tennis courts? They don't have that dangerous water that seems to concern people so much that a lifeguard is required. (I can understand the light issue, but lights *can* be trucked in to shine onto the pool.)

[lil_freak]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

WWMD? or WWWCD?
(What would MacGeyver Do? or What would Weslesy Crusher Do?)

Um, go out and get a 3M Post-It Easel and Easel Pads. They are a good size (2.5 feet by 2.08 feet) and work well for office meetings, so I think they would work great at Defcon.

Besides Cot, it would be less of a hassle to do this than move/arrange tables and what not.

[TheCotMan]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

Um, go out and get a 3M Post-It Easel and Easel Pads. They are a good size (2.5 feet by 2.08 feet) and work well for office meetings, so I think they would work great at Defcon.

Besides Cot, it would be less of a hassle to do this than move/arrange tables and what not.

But those solutions cost money. :-) 1 or 2 tables dedicated to this purpose could be setup on Friday morning and torn down on Sunday.

Setup and break-down of tables is really easy and does not require a trip to the store.

Also, the Dart people had an Easel in the hallway and that thing was kicked over a few times. (Heavy objects tend to "stay-put" while light-weight object seem to walk-off on their own, or get smashed at Defcon.)

[jedi]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

Low tech is one way to solve this. But I imagine it'll be difficult to manage finding the data you need when there's tons of messages on whatever easel/whiteboard/butcher paper we would choose.

What about trying a different solution. For example, we could set up a set of stations specifically connected to a closed network (or possibly isolated from the dc network but with outside connectivity)? We could have it occupy one of the sky boxes and setup a series of terminals with the local net for folks to use to leave messages for each other. We could localize communication to say a forum board that's only setup for the con. The we only have one room and a small set of machines to monitor.

[BlackOrchid]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

Not meaning to insult/offend all of these ideas put forth, but so far we're still not coming up with anything nearly as personable as direct contact.

I'm still meditating on ths personal contact dilemma. But digitalizing is something we could have done at home and thus absolutely no need for defcon.

How can we shape the areas we have to better centralize and socialize real people? There needs to be some area that the majority pass through on their way to a conference area that isn't being totally controlled by guard dogs.

OR

I've entertained the idea opening the top pool area to being exclusive to defcon attendees ONLY for day and all night 'raves'. Why can't the hotel give us a little more liberty given our recent history of relative calm and control with the help of our goons. Make the upstairs pool exclusive to coolers, music, and our regular mayhem. (I'm sure there is insider information regarding the inability to do this but I'd like to at least hear a reason against it. Thanks)

Just throwing out some ideas for real human interaction as opposed to isolation of digitalization.

[Abby_Normal]

Re: My #1 biggest problem with DEFCON this year...

I've entertained the idea opening the top pool area to being exclusive to defcon attendees ONLY for day and all night 'raves'. Why can't the hotel give us a little more liberty given our recent history of relative calm and control with the help of our goons. Make the upstairs pool exclusive to coolers, music, and our regular mayhem. (I'm sure there is insider information regarding the inability to do this but I'd like to at least hear a reason against it. Thanks)

Just throwing out some ideas for real human interaction as opposed to isolation of digitalization.

The roof pool would be great, but at the moment it leaks. Do we bring in enough $ that it would be worth it to the Riv to repair and open it?