Regarding smoking at Defcon

[renderman]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

I'm of the non-smoking camp, and I do agree it's your choice, but I'm not one to encourage or endorse it in any way.

After umpteen Defcons and other cons, it's never really been an issue. I can see having talks non-smoking since everyone is in close proximity and I'm sure speakers want to see thier audience and not a cloud.

In the halls and common areas, You have the choice to move away from smokers, in a talk, you don't. I have left parties because of smoke, and I certainly don't like it when people light up in non smoking areas.

The only time I can remember me commenting about smoking at a con was Shmoocon 05 where I already had a cold and the smoke was causing problems. I asked to switch places with the smoker so I was upwind.

I'm not particularly sensitive to smoke and I don't seem to suffer the 'black stuff' problem of others, so maybe my perspectives are skewed, but I don't see it as a huge problem. The space is big enough that smokers and non smokers can seek shelter from each other and not cause each other problems.

Just my ranting $0.02 on the topic

[mfreeck]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

I am also in the no-smoking-in-tracks camp. I also think the hall that leads to the tracks (at least the one hall that led to just the two tracks) should be smoke-free, because I remember it being a bit of a closed in area and only the track doors were open. While a lot of people go to defcon for social reasons these days, the "meat" of defcon is still the talks. If you do nothing else at defcon, you can get a lot out of the talks. People who are super-sensitive to smoke can opt to hang out in their rooms (with or without friends) or outside instead of smoke filled chill out rooms and parties, but have no other way of attending the talks. Trips to the vendor area are likely to be short. I might also suggest that enclosed "working" areas such as lockpick village be smoke-free during operation for the same reason (smoking on balconey with closed doors optional). Smokers can have the vendor area, chill out room, major hallways, parties and all the rest of vegas.

[Sidyin]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

My first post, my first defcon.

My opinion:

First opinion... It's a casino. The last haven for smokers. The non-smoking camp has gotten too many consessions towards their cause to date.

Second opinion.... I attempted to be respectful where I smoked. I did not smoke during the tracks, nor did I smoke in the vendor area, nor the locksmith camp (where they politely put a sign up that said no-smoking).

Short of that, just about everywhere else within reason was fair game, hallways, etc. Although I did avoid standing in the busy corridor where the dartmatch was also being held, kinda impeded traffic. I usually wandered off outdoors, or to the main enterance area, or the food/wall-of-sheep whatever the hell you want to call it, and by the Internet Boothes.

Just my 2CP, I know some people aren't as polite as I, but /shrug.

[BlackOrchid]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

Chris & jur1st... I'll concede! I think yall can smoke in your vendor area.. and punch anyone on the nuts who harms or dirties your materials!.. I have no problem with punching uncouth arses!

However, I'll stand firm on the tracks being non smoking primarily because that is the root of what defcon is all about and no one should be forced out. Not to mention, most of the talks are so crowded and I'd fear hitting someone with a cig. (yes, it has happened!) However, if a speaker is a smoker.. let them smoke.. they have free reign do whatever they want!

In the immortal words of William Wallace (as portrayed by Mel Gibson): FREEDOOOMMMM!~!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I went to defcon to live deliberately! (adaptation on Henry David Theoreau)

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

nor did I smoke in ... the locksmith camp (where they politely put a sign up that said no-smoking).

actually, i think that sign was put up in order to prevent people from smoking out on the balcony. why this was i am not certain, since when organizing the village i envisioned from the start that it would be a chillout area where people could learn at their own pace... and be free to smoke or drink however they wished. maybe there was some "no smoking on the balcony" regulation of which i wasn't aware. next year, if we're back in the skyboxes again, i'd like that to be the smoking section of the lockpick village.

However, I'll stand firm on the tracks being non smoking primarily because that is the root of what defcon is all about and no one should be forced out.

i'm a non-smoker with no desire to start the habit and no desire to have my clothes smell of tobacco... but my comfort doesn't trump others' freedom. much in the same way that people have the right to drink alcohol or read pornography or wear perfume or sport an unconventional haircut in public, my freedoms are perfectly safe and protected as long as i have the ability to walk away from them should i not like any of those life choices (i have no problems with any of them, by the way).

people have choice... the choice to tolerate a mild annoyance which makes a temporary intrusion into their sense perimeter versus getting up and walking somewhere else. it's when you do not have freedom of movement (plane flights, sitting at a dining table, movie theater, etc.) that smoking becomes a problem. in most of those instances, smoking is either banned outright or consigned to a particular section. i really feel like this should be the main deciding factor with the defcon smoking question... whether people can roam freely or are stuck where they're seated for the duration of an event. speaking tracks are the only places where i think people are ever really "stuck" to a chair at defcon (except for maybe the CtF teams... but isn't there a wide berth between them and spectators?) and therefore the only place that i think smoking would be a problem.

however, i haven't really heard anyone make a convincing argument as to why a portion of the room couldn't serve effectively as a smoking section. i know there were smokers in the talks this year and i never even noticed, since i wasn't sitting within 10' or so of them and the smoke just rose up and never entered my space.

just my $1.42

[tequilastrapple]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

Apparently someone already rigged the poll.

It wouldn’t be a proper Defcon Forum poll without some good-natured vote-rigging.

Thanks, all, for the continued genial humor in addressing such a touchy subject. I am really enjoying the thoughtful discussions. My chuckles have been plentiful.

If it were up to me, all buildings would have such badass air-filtration systems that smokers could do as they please without inhibiting the actions of non-smoking pussies like myself.

Since that’s not going to happen anytime soon, I have just placed an order for a carbon-filter mask that is supposed to reduce exposure to cigarette smoke and a bunch of other “pollutants” by “as much as 95%.” We shall see. I’m skeptical, but looking forward to testing it between beer swigs at one of Philly’s defiantly smoke-filled bars – fitting, as for some reason, this town is called the “birthplace of freedom.”

I found the mask here:
http://www.alerg.com/page/A/PROD/11MSK/MSK2005
The company that makes them, “I Can Breathe!®,” (okay, how lame is that?) says they come in tan, white, and grey, as well as a beige lace version. Hoping they come out with a black lace version soon…

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

a carbon-filter mask that is supposed to reduce exposure to cigarette smoke and a bunch of other “pollutants” by “as much as 95%.”

i'd wager that it also boasts the miraculous ability to reduce your exposure to potential dates and new friends by about the same percentage...

sorry, not trying to make a knock directly at you or anything... but life is getting a little bit extreme if people start ordering or wearing these en masse. it's like we're in the SARS epidemic fear again or something. good lord, people, if your body can't handle even casual second-hand smoke contact then the universe is just trying to tell you to socialize outside. (repeat: not making fun of you... just making fun of a ridiculous looking product that's not really suited to social situations)

[litsuka]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

well here is my opinions as lowly as they are..
i'm a non-smoker with no desire to start the habit and no desire to have my clothes smell of tobacco... but my comfort doesn't trump others' freedom. much in the same way that people have the right to drink alcohol or read pornography or wear perfume or sport an unconventional haircut in public, my freedoms are perfectly safe and protected as long as i have the ability to walk away from them should i not like any of those life choices (i have no problems with any of them, by the way). as long as you have the ability its fine to me, problem is if everywhere is full of smoke where can you go?

to me as long as the smokers are polite and it isnt so bad you cant breathe i dont really care ( polite i mean as not blowing it my face ) I think its not right to ban smoking all together but limiting what people can and cant do by smoking ( and you are doing that by both non smoking rules and allowing smoking) is what sucks. I am highly allergic to smoking I can barely stand near someone who smokes, and generally I just stay a few steps away from them if I can help it. I think smoking in areas where you can wander around in is ok becouse I can go look at something else or do something else as long as I can come back later, however events and speaking that are limited in times someone can attend I think should be restricted simply becouse smokers can go without smoking for a while, while some people cannot be around it for more then a few minutes, its not restricting their freedom to smoke its giving non smokers the freedom to attend events they want to without dying and having to leave.
there ya go 2 cents from lowly old me.

[eris]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

just making fun of a ridiculous looking product that's not really suited to social situations)

I totally agree, chiming in only about the esthetics of this solution. The solution itself is pretty good as an adaptation to the smoke-filled environment of Defcon at a Vegas casino, but wow, that is guaranteed to never allow sexual contact between the wearer and ANYONE.

How about something like this instead?

http://www.betterbreathers.com/

http://nosefilters.com/prod01.htm

[tequilastrapple]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

Thanks for the nasal filter suggestions, eris. I had found them already. I will be test-driving some of these at a smoke-filled Philly bar, as well.

Regarding the aesthetics and social appropriateness of the mask:

1. I don’t think that you all have considered the creative possibilities that this blank canvas affords. I'm sure I can come up with a way to take this mask from bland to grand.
Here is an example of my über mask-design skills – built of veriform and latex paint for a theatrical production in 2004.



2. I do not go to Defcon looking for “sexual contact” or “potential dates.” While the overall attitude toward women at DC has changed for the better over the 5 years that I have been attending, I inevitably encounter assholes who assume that, because I’m a woman, that’s why I’m there. The concept that my brain may be even more interesting than my body does not occur to them. If you think that wearing a mask such as this would discourage unwelcome come-ons from these kinds of people, why shouldn’t I wear it? If “potential dates” are turned off by the assumptions that they make about me if I am wearing one of these, then the mask is doing me a favor, filtering out annoying people in addition to annoying particles.

[alklloyd]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

1.)I think the rules will be set by the RIVERIA as to where we can smoke.
1b.) It's a CASINO.
2.) You are in LAS VEGAS, where you can smoke in a TAXICAB.
3.) If your health is so fragile, what are you DOING in VEGAS?

Your doctor would tell you to stay home.

Al K. Lloyd

PS: All my best to Chris

[sammo]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

1.)I think the rules will be set by the RIVERIA as to where we can smoke.
1b.) It's a CASINO.
2.) You are in LAS VEGAS, where you can smoke in a TAXICAB.

This is changing though... many of the higher class card rooms like the Bellagio and the Wynn don't allow smoking and the WSOP at the Rio doesn't allow smoking.

[alklloyd]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

This is changing though... many of the higher class card rooms like the Bellagio and the Wynn don't allow smoking and the WSOP at the Rio doesn't allow smoking.

This is true, I remember people at the Rio bitching about the hallway smoke.
It may happen (or not), but don't hold your breath (:>) for Vegas casinos to go completely smoke-free. It is Sin City, you know.

Al

[Abby_Normal]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

2. I do not go to Defcon looking for “sexual contact” or “potential dates.”

Having seen what the average Defon attendee looks(and smells) like, one would wonder where a person would get the idea that a woman would go to con in search of sexual partners.

It's not like it's hard to get laid in the real world anyway. All you need is to own a vagina, or something close. :-)

[latras]

Re: Regarding smoking at Defcon

Having seen what the average Defon attendee looks(and smells) like, one would wonder where a person would get the idea that a woman would go to con in search of sexual partners.

I don't see how hard it is to shower every day, If you really need to hurry, you can get a decent shower in about 5-10 minutes...and then you bring more than a backpacks worth of clothes...with the heat, you might need to change your clothes again during the day..and even maybe hop in the shower again.....

it's not hard to look and smell good at defcon :) well, except for those CTF players....