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  • Riviera may be sold by years end

    Riv may come under new management

    I didn't see this posted anywhere else in forums, sorry for repeat if already brought up.
    "Never Underestimate the Power of Stupid People in Large Groups"

  • #2
    Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

    Wow, DT can buy it with the goon's beer budget and fire all the guards.

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    • #3
      Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

      Originally posted by hackajar View Post
      Riv may come under new management

      I didn't see this posted anywhere else in forums, sorry for repeat if already brought up.
      Hopefully by someone who knows what "professional" means.
      "There are no failed experiments, only more data"

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      • #4
        Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

        so does that mean that if the riv gets sold, those banned from the premise may be allowed back?
        ======================================
        DJ Jackalope
        dopest dj in the galaxy. *mwah!*

        send in the drop bears!
        ======================================

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

          I suspect that either way, they're not going to remember J. Random Hacker.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

            Originally posted by BonzoESC View Post
            I suspect that either way, they're not going to remember J. Random Hacker.
            Don't bet on it. First, casinos maintain databases on those people who ave been banned, so punching in the name at check-in would certainly alert the registration desk. Second, casinos are places where a lot of money is being moved. The casinos attract people who are not exactly scrupulous in making some of that money move into their pockets. Due to that, casinos are well known users of facial recognition technologies. (Google: casinos face recognition) If someone is banned, whether for gambling infractions or some other grounds, their face is probably added to the facial database of a given establishment. Using an assumed name may not be a valid work-around.
            Thorn
            "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

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            • #7
              Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

              It would be easy enough to defeat facial recognition software at Defcon, Mardi Gras, Haloween, or New Year's Eve Parties, using obvious techniques.

              Staying with other people at the riv, or in other hotels, could allow people to bypass the ID/CreditCard checks, but doing this may put the person that rented the room at risk for being banned.

              Some blacklists are shared between casinos, though this is probably more common between hotel/casinos that have the same owner, just different casino names.

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              • #8
                Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

                Originally posted by Thorn View Post
                Don't bet on it. First, casinos maintain databases on those people who ave been banned, so punching in the name at check-in would certainly alert the registration desk. Second, casinos are places where a lot of money is being moved. The casinos attract people who are not exactly scrupulous in making some of that money move into their pockets. Due to that, casinos are well known users of facial recognition technologies. (Google: casinos face recognition) If someone is banned, whether for gambling infractions or some other grounds, their face is probably added to the facial database of a given establishment. Using an assumed name may not be a valid work-around.
                Sliced and diced from a post of mine on DC-Stuff.org

                Biometrica is one of the industry leaders in this technology and they are local to Las Vegas, one of their original products is called SIN or Surveillance Information Network.

                The SIN shares (sending and receiving) real-time information and alert notifications with a broad network of over 150 casino surveillance operators located in the U.S. and around the world.

                The cameras generally stashed in locations where people are looking straight ahead, so the hallways in and around the convention space would be ideal, and not suprising if there were a few cameras looking out for troublemakers.
                Nonnumquam cupido magnas partes Interretis vincendi me corripit

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                • #9
                  Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

                  Yea! More change!
                  PGP key: dtangent@defcon.org valid 2020 Jan 15, to 2024 Jan 01 Fingerprint: BC5B CD9A C609 1B6B CD81 9636 D7C6 E96C FE66 156A

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                  • #10
                    Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

                    Originally posted by Thorn View Post
                    Don't bet on it. First, casinos maintain databases on those people who ave been banned, so punching in the name at check-in would certainly alert the registration desk.
                    That was along the lines I was thinking about... I was just playing the different owners, different rules game. (mainly, just being hopefull.)
                    ======================================
                    DJ Jackalope
                    dopest dj in the galaxy. *mwah!*

                    send in the drop bears!
                    ======================================

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

                      Originally posted by DJ Jackalope View Post
                      That was along the lines I was thinking about... I was just playing the different owners, different rules game. (mainly, just being hopefull.)
                      Understood, but I'd think that all databases would be considered part of the business assets and would be sold right along with the physical plant. For example, a customer mailing list db would be probably worth quite a bit of money by itself. I'd estimate that the "banned" list would be almost as important, for the simple reason that most of the people who are banned probably represent casino losses.
                      Thorn
                      "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

                        Originally posted by Thorn View Post
                        Understood, but I'd think that all databases would be considered part of the business assets and would be sold right along with the physical plant. For example, a customer mailing list db would be probably worth quite a bit of money by itself. I'd estimate that the "banned" list would be almost as important, for the simple reason that most of the people who are banned probably represent casino losses.
                        That may be true, but I assume they care far more about people trying to cheat at the tables or steal from the clients that a few people who got a little too drunk or made a mess.

                        That said I hope the change will be for the best. I can think of a few members of the Riv staff who really deserve to be out of a job!
                        "There are no failed experiments, only more data"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

                          Originally posted by Abby_Normal View Post
                          That may be true, but I assume they care far more about people trying to cheat at the tables or steal from the clients that a few people who got a little too drunk or made a mess.
                          While I understand and agree, I have my doubts as to whether they differentiate. Otherwise they would be spending time making value judgments about past behavior on a case by case basis. The amount of money that would be gained from allowing re-entry under from such judgments would be minuscule and wouldn't offset the time and money needed to make the determination or to set up the review procedures in the first place.

                          It would be much easier from their standpoint to divide the potential customers into groups of "Banned" or "Not Banned" and once someone is in the "banned" group never to deal with them again.
                          Thorn
                          "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

                            Wouldn't clearing marginal entries from a banlist allow for applying fewer resources (such as man-hours, technology, and other overhead) to search for and deal with people banned from their site?

                            With each person banned, the observation, identification and action system is encumbered. As the burden becomes too great, one of two things happens:
                            1) The quality of one or more of the three items (observation, identification or action) is decreased.
                            2) More resources are added to handle the new workload.

                            On the other hand, what legal risk might the hotel/casino have in unbanning peple?
                            If these once-banned people ever did something to harm another casino/hotel guest or employee, would this increase the chance the casino could lose a lawsuit?
                            The hotel/casino identified a problem, banned someone, then unbanned that person, who then came back and caused problems. Is unbanning that person a statement that the hotel/casino doesn't view the unbanned person as a threat? In making this decision, are they partially responsible for any problems caused by this person on their site after the unban?

                            More? When a single person is banned, is there consideration of revenue lost when this person doesn't return and family/friends traveling to Las Vegas don't visit the hotel/casino when traveling with the banned person?

                            This is more complicated than I originally thought it was.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Riviera may be sold by years end

                              The larger casinos Venetian, Bellagio use a software called "Griffen Gold" for security & facial recognition.
                              The software snaps photos, uses a formula based on measurements of the eyes nose and chin, and then compares
                              them to a local or internet database.

                              Griffin is actually a private investigation firm that casinos can hire, they were the investigation firm that was used
                              in catching the MIT Blackjack card counting team. From what I've seen and read, the casino has to actually suspect
                              a player before action is taken. The system is not automated.

                              I read Griffin has about 100 casinos as its customers, and Biometrica (SIN) has another 175+ casinos as its customers.
                              Stratosphere is reportedly using Biometrica.

                              But it does make me wonder on a property type ban, what do they use to enforce that? Systems like those
                              were speaking of are to protect casinos against fraud. A property ban on the other hand isn't necessarily something
                              shared between casinos, possibly locations owned by the same company but not likely a shared database like Biometrica or Griffin.
                              Last edited by [Syntax]; December 15, 2006, 03:29.

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