Def Con 14 Location Discussion

[Dark Tangent]

So to start the rumor mill going, we will not be back at the AP next year.

We have a new home, and I am working on an announcement that will cover most of the questions people will have reguarding the move.

Basically it means that the con will have to change to adapt to the new environment. Some things will grow, some will shrink, but on the whole it lets DEF CON expand. There will be more space, and the room grow. The future is now open, where at the AP we outgrew the place and could not explore hands-on classes, mini sessions, seating for more people, more sessions, or whatever.

Our options became limited, and it was time to look for a new place. It took about two years, but we found one.

No hard feeling with the Alexis Park, but we just needed a larger home.

[Deviant Ollam]

thanks, DT, for making DefCon what it is, for keeping it going, and for always rolling with what comes along. the AP was a real mixed bag, especially this most recent year under the new management... for all the things that aggravated some of us, there are certain nostalgic aspects over which i will shed a tear or so when we move to our new space.

two things i will miss a lot about the AP are...

1. ability to jack into the TV network for feeds, movie channel, etc.

2. sprawl nature of the grounds that allowed for casual socializing, DJ action poolside, and roaming parties at sundown

... care to reassure us at all with indications that our new hotel may offer similar features?

thanks again for everything,

- dev

[Tacitus]

It would be great if at the new hotel a "convention rate" on the hotel rooms meant lower prices than normal- not (near) double the normal rate.

[Dark Tangent]

It would be great if at the new hotel a "convention rate" on the hotel rooms meant lower prices than normal- not (near) double the normal rate.

Well, I believe the rates are like $89 or so. I'll go look at the contract, but it is quite a bit cheaper than the AP. On the other hand We will have to charge more for DC next year, and current thinking is $100.

In the end the food is quite a bit cheaper and better, as well as the rooms being cheaper. It should end up saving the attendees much more than the price we have to charge.

[astcell]

The only place I have ever been for Defcon is the Alexis Park. I wonder what the feelings were the first year we were at the AP, was it more welcomed than its predecessor?

[TheCotMan]

The only place I have ever been for Defcon is the Alexis Park. I wonder what the feelings were the first year we were at the AP, was it more welcomed than its predecessor?

Some of my thoughts after having been to other DefCon hotels when looking at the AP/V the first time before it officially started:
Where are we going to get food?
Dang, that is a long way to walk.
I hope the AC works.
The rooms have to be better than the other DefCon Hotels.
It's so far away from the strip.
Parking sucks. (Full spaces near room => longer walks or waiting.)
It will be easier to get stuff to our room without carting it through the lobby, and risk inspection by many eyes.

We had other thoughts after it was over.

[big chopper]

I was impressed the first time I saw Alexis Park (was it DC7?). After awhile, however, DEF CON started to assume the personality of Alexis Park--which wasn't totally a bad thing.

Any move will help restore the unique qualities of DEF CON.
--BC,

[astcell]

There is one thing that any other hotel will NOT have that we will NOT miss:

Alexis Park Security!

[Tacitus]

There is one thing that any other hotel will NOT have that we will NOT miss:

Alexis Park Security!


Yes- now we get diffrent security- and depending on the hotel- security that is concerned with protecting gaming devices and monies therein

[TheCotMan]

Yes- now we get diffrent security- and depending on the hotel- security that is concerned with protecting gaming devices and monies therein

Oh yeah... Casino Security is quite different from the AP Security. Though I am not the kind of person who would be overly cruel to AP Security, I don't think I would even consider playing around with Casino security.
Police departments have Internal Affairs to investigate complaints against officers, but casinos only have lots of money.

[renderman]

Police departments have Internal Affairs to investigate complaints against officers, but casinos only have lots of money.

And they know where the camera's are'nt!

I'm hoping that the con area is away from the Casino, thereby creating a 'insanity allowed here' zone. Otherwise, this could get messy.

Hmm, if it's not at the AP, then that means no pool 2 girl

[TheCotMan]

Hmm, if it's not at the AP, then that means no pool 2 girl

Yay!
Oh. I mean, that is such a terrible loss.

heh-heh

[Siviak]

I will miss the grounds and social availability that is gave us. I guess we're back to private parties and staying within our circles.... other than that I can only say that moving from the AP is like moving from an old shitty house... sure you hate it, sure it has issues, but it has been home for so long..... alas. but on the up side now we can torch the fucking place without having to worry about where we will drink.

[renderman]

I will miss the grounds and social availability that is gave us. I guess we're back to private parties and staying within our circles.... other than that I can only say that moving from the AP is like moving from an old shitty house... sure you hate it, sure it has issues, but it has been home for so long..... alas. but on the up side now we can torch the fucking place without having to worry about where we will drink.


And just think of all the new hotel staff we can traumatise

[TheCotMan]

I will miss the grounds and social availability that is gave us. I guess we're back to private parties and staying within our circles.... .

During DefCon 5, it was easy enough to find parties in the hotel. All you had to do was visit a few floors, and you'd find someone with a sign on their door that welcomed you to visit.

It kind of sucked later, because hotel security started cracking down on parties by ordering people not registered to a room, out of rooms with "too many people." The took down signs and generally harassed the people in any room that was "loud."

I think there were more pranks back then, than there are now.

Let's see, elevators forced open on specific floors,
Power failure to the hotel,
security cameras molested,
lots of room damage,
silly people recording their trespassing on video including lock picking,
Theft of telephone service (one room stealing their neighbors phone service to make many phone calls),
Trips to the roof/basement/office space/maintenance spaces,
People thinking stealing lineman set made them phreakers,
something about duct tape, and a person hanging out a window (or was this the AP?),
Hotel "payphone" that went missing,
Something about a sat. dish gone missing...
um. and lots more that I have forgotten.

I do not recall so many bad things at the AP... Maybe they were just different, maybe I just did not see them,
Kicked out path-lights,
Stolen golf cart used to demonstrate momentum and intertia,
Dye in water/fountains,
Two adult males getting naked in the chill-out room and dancing with each other while making funny noises,

Perhaps the forums will become more popular as a method to arrange events.

Maybe we are all assuming the new place is a tall building/hotel and not something like the AP, only different?

[hackajar]

It's still going to be in Vegas right? (obvious?)

[ripshy]

It's still going to be in Vegas right? (obvious?)

Well, if it isnt...ROAD TRIP.

Im going to miss the AP, its all i've known defcon to be since I first started going 3 years ago. I think its safe to say that everything that needs to be considered has been considered with the new place. After all, Defcon isnt just the conference that makes it the "experience" it is, its everything else; from missing phones and purple pools to drunken idiots and the parties/contests/etc.

Anyways, I trust DT and everyone invloved in the selection of the new place, I have faith it will work out.

[TheCotMan]

/me wears his asshat...
Hmm. Time to make a brand new rumor. ]:>

It won't be at the Alexis Park... it will be at the Alexis Villas!

/me ducks and runs for cover.

[big chopper]

It's still going to be in Vegas right? (obvious?)

Black Hat 2006 is scheduled for Caesars Palace. So if DEF CON continues to follow BlackHat, my prediction is that DEF CON 14 will also be in Las Vegas. But, I'm still curious exactly where DC14 will be.

DT indicated that room rates should be around $90. That price on a weekend indicates a non-casino/resort. But that doesn't add-up because space is one of the reasons for moving. And while AP has 40,000 sq feet of convention space--which is small by Las Vegas standards, it is large for non-gaming venues. So, if DEF CON needs more space, I suspect we'll be back in a casino in 2006. The problem with that logic is that there are no casinos with weekend rooms at the target price outside of Downtown, and the largest downtown convention venues are about half the size of AP.

This all leads me to think that DC14 will either be held downtown with meeting rooms in multiple locations -- OR -- DC14 will be held midweek (before BlackHat?) at an older strip property.

I'm probably wrong, but it's fun to speculate.
--BC,

[[Syntax]]

Cotman forgot cement in the toilets and in house tv channels being hacked.
I wasnt even around for those. But saw many of the others listed.

Im just wondering how "friendly" this new location is gonna be. Will they have
a police van waiting outside before con even starts?

[TheCotMan]

This all leads me to think that DC14 will either be held downtown with meeting rooms in multiple locations -- OR -- DC14 will be held midweek (before BlackHat?) at an older strip property.

That makes sense. DC pre-AP were held at hotels that were so old/damaged that they remodeled shortly after DC or demolished them to make way for a new hotel.

Perhaps there are plans to demolish another hotel on the strip?

]] Cotman forgot cement in the toilets and in house tv channels being hacked.
I wasnt even around for those.
Ah yes. There are so many things that happens, it is easy to forget some. Hotel Internet access was another one, or was that at BH where that happened?

[big chopper]

Perhaps there are plans to demolish another hotel on the strip?


The New Fronteir & Boardwalk are both scheduled for demolition in 2006.
--BC,

[Vyrus]

as long as we can still buy out the whole thing for con. because if we cant do that then we canthave the obsenely loud partys and not have SOMBODY complain. and well lets face it, other than geeks on laptops amongst mind altering substances and strippers, what is defcon ?

[alklloyd]

Black Hat 2006 is scheduled for Caesars Palace.
Wouldn't it make sense to have DC there as well?

Al

[alklloyd]

I will miss the grounds and social availability that is gave us. I guess we're back to private parties and staying within our circles.... other than that I can only say that moving from the AP is like moving from an old shitty house... sure you hate it, sure it has issues, but it has been home for so long..... alas. but on the up side now we can torch the fucking place without having to worry about where we will drink.
You know, I think you hit the nail on the head with that one.

Al

[che]

I will miss the grounds and social availability that is gave us. I guess we're back to private parties and staying within our circles.... other than that I can only say that moving from the AP is like moving from an old shitty house... sure you hate it, sure it has issues, but it has been home for so long..... alas. but on the up side now we can torch the fucking place without having to worry about where we will drink.

That is what the Toxic BBQ is for.. everyone can still show up and socialize there.. It was a great time. There was also Sushicon and the EFF summit party.. all did well for folks meeting up. Circles and parties are not private unless they are made that way.. and as long as folks stay inviting as they have been in the past all should be good.

Heh.. we could always have it at the Hotel Siviak.. ;)

[Tacitus]

DT indicated that room rates should be around $90. That price on a weekend indicates a non-casino/resort. But that doesn't add-up because space is one of the reasons for moving.


This does not account for the concept that a large block of room buys (i.e. for a convention) should result in a discount on room price, not an increase in price like we got at the AP/AV when we guarantee them 100% occupancy

[big chopper]

This does not account for the concept that a large block of room buys (i.e. for a convention) should result in a discount on room price, not an increase in price like we got at the AP/AV when we guarantee them 100% occupancy

You are very right about AP, but I think it works differently for hotels with casinos. In Las Vegas, casinos enjoy an occupancy rate of 97% and up on weekends--even in the middle of the summer. I cannot imagine getting much of a discount with a block purchase of rooms. They'll fill them regardless. Midweek rooms are a different story because the occupancy rates are nowhere near weekend levels.

But you're right, what you said is a valid complaint of AP.
--BC,

[klepto]

Wouldn't it make sense to have DC there as well?

Al

Have you seen the room rates for Caesar's?

[alklloyd]

Have you seen the room rates for Caesar's?
Woops...my bad,so much for that idea.
http://www.caesars.com/Reservations/main.aspx?HotelId=14&StepId=1hot
"Hot Deals" range from $140 (midweek) to $500 (weekend). I'd hate to see the ones that were not "deals".

Al

[erehwon]

The New Fronteir & Boardwalk are both scheduled for demolition in 2006.
--BC,

Scratch both of those venues off the list, they both have less than a quarter of the meeting space the Alexis Park have. I would figure any new space would have to have at least 60,000 to 120,000 square feet to allow Defcon to grow into for a multi-year contract.

Hotel wise there is...

Aladdin Resort and Casino 75,000 sq ft.
Bally's Las Vegas 175,000 sq ft
Bellagio 200,000 sq ft
Caesars Palace 240,000 sq ft
Flamingo Las Vegas 73,000 sq ft
Hard Rock Hotel & Casino 60,000 sq ft
JW Marriott Las Vegas Resort, Spa & Golf 65,734 sq ft
Las Vegas Hilton 200,000 sq ft
Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino 1,663,697 sq ft
MGM Grand Hotel and Casino 501,000 sq ft
Mirage 171,959 sq ft
Paris Las Vegas 140,000 sq ft
Red Rock Resort Spa & Casino 94,000 sq ft
Rio All-Suite Hotel and Casino 160,000 sq ft
Riviera Hotel Casino 160,000 sq ft
South Coast Casino 150,000 sq ft
Stardust Resort and Casino 65,500 sq ft
Tropicana Resort and Casino 106,903 sq ft
Venetian Resort - Hotel - Casino 345,917 sq ft
Wynn Las Vegas 200,000 sq ft

I would be willing to bet a little something on the Flamingo Las Vegas as its across the street from Caesers Palace and having Defcon across the street from Blackhat would make command and control that much easier. :wink:

[big chopper]

<snip>I would be willing to bet a little something on the Flamingo Las Vegas as its across the street from Caesers Palace and having Defcon across the street from Blackhat would make command and control that much easier. :wink:


Nice piece of research!
I'm going to keep a copy of hotels & available convention space.
--BC,

[allentrace]

Scratch both of those venues off the list, they both have less than a quarter of the meeting space the Alexis Park have. I would figure any new space would have to have at least 60,000 to 120,000 square feet to allow Defcon to grow into for a multi-year contract.

Hotel wise there is...

Aladdin Resort and Casino 75,000 sq ft.
Bally's Las Vegas 175,000 sq ft
Bellagio 200,000 sq ft
Caesars Palace 240,000 sq ft
Flamingo Las Vegas 73,000 sq ft
Hard Rock Hotel & Casino 60,000 sq ft
JW Marriott Las Vegas Resort, Spa & Golf 65,734 sq ft
Las Vegas Hilton 200,000 sq ft
Mandalay Bay Resort & Casino 1,663,697 sq ft
MGM Grand Hotel and Casino 501,000 sq ft
Mirage 171,959 sq ft
Paris Las Vegas 140,000 sq ft
Red Rock Resort Spa & Casino 94,000 sq ft
Rio All-Suite Hotel and Casino 160,000 sq ft
Riviera Hotel Casino 160,000 sq ft
South Coast Casino 150,000 sq ft
Stardust Resort and Casino 65,500 sq ft
Tropicana Resort and Casino 106,903 sq ft
Venetian Resort - Hotel - Casino 345,917 sq ft
Wynn Las Vegas 200,000 sq ft

I would be willing to bet a little something on the Flamingo Las Vegas as its across the street from Caesers Palace and having Defcon across the street from Blackhat would make command and control that much easier. :wink:

I vote for Caesars I get free rooms there tx to my mothers friend who is a high roller there

[astcell]

Wynn is brand spanking new. It'd be great to go there.

[renderman]

Wynn is brand spanking new. It'd be great to go there.

Take a bit of the shine off the place as it were.

I wonder if many of us would be able afford rooms there. I don't really care about the quality of the rooms, I just need a place for the 4 S's. Sleep, Shit, Shower and Shave. Even then, most of those are optional.

[Vyrus]

Take a bit of the shine off the place as it were.

I wonder if many of us would be able afford rooms there. I don't really care about the quality of the rooms, I just need a place for the 4 S's. Sleep, Shit, Shower and Shave. Even then, most of those are optional.

agreed. besides with most of those hotells there big enough to where we probobly would not be able to buy the whole thing out for con. meaning we would have to "blend in" with the rest of the vacation crowd.

[TheCotMan]

agreed. besides with most of those hotells there big enough to where we probobly would not be able to buy the whole thing out for con. meaning we would have to "blend in" with the rest of the vacation crowd.

With a medium-sized a convention like DefCon, I am sure arrangements can be made to reserve entire floors in sequence for a given range. If floors started at the 2nd floor, then they could pre-allocate floors 2 through 26 (or whatever) and have the 26th floor be fore goons, guests, speakers, or others as a "buffer-zone" for noise to higher floors.

[Siviak]

JW Marriott Las Vegas Resort, Spa & Golf 65,734 sq ft

well this place got my vote more than a year ago... it has grounds just like the AP.. FUCKING great rooms, casino attached but sepratly owned (meaning 18+ for a room) it has a metric shit ton of restaraunts, the hotel is small enough that we can buy it out entierly but big enough to accomidate ALL of us (figuring around 7,000-10,000).... I think it is the perfect place. I hope we go there... HUGE pools too :biggrin:

[octalpus]

You know, I didn't think moving was such a bad idea, but y'all should stop speculating. With all this build-up, there's no doubt you're all going to be disappointed!

[CP99]

I would not mind at all if the next con(s) were held at the Tropicana, I have stayed there a few times, and its very nice, and reasonably priced as far as Vegas hotels go, Also they have a realy great pool with a huge waterfall thing. Good times. :cool:

[Dark Tangent]

I wanted to revel this in the big post, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to post it here. Then I will monitor the conversation and use some of the questions that come up in the announcement.

Now before you get carried away, we DO NOT HAVE ALL THE SPACE for 2006 or 2007. It increases year by year depending on how much we use, with the first chance to take over the entire hotel in 2008.

If you find a map of the place, we have the side with the sky boxes plus some other space to the left of the right hand box. I'll detail it all out in the official announcement.

The management has been very very cool so far, and they have all kinds of strange convenetions there from Tatoo and fetish shows to English dart throwing groups. They are happy to work with us, and they are not trying to get rich off of food prices. They actually have a food court with Taco Bell, McD, and others at normal prices.

And the location is.. the Riveria.

We still are thinking aobut how to lay out the space, and once I post the layout of the space we do have for 2006 I would be good if you guys could think it through as well.

[guile]

Here's the map of the convention center

http://www.rivierahotel.com/images/conventionmap.jpg

I think it would be a good move

[erehwon]

I wanted to revel this in the big post, but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to post it here. Then I will monitor the conversation and use some of the questions that come up in the announcement.

Now before you get carried away, we DO NOT HAVE ALL THE SPACE for 2006 or 2007. It increases year by year depending on how much we use, with the first chance to take over the entire hotel in 2008.

If you find a map of the place, we have the side with the sky boxes plus some other space to the left of the right hand box. I'll detail it all out in the official announcement.

The management has been very very cool so far, and they have all kinds of strange convenetions there from Tatoo and fetish shows to English dart throwing groups. They are happy to work with us, and they are not trying to get rich off of food prices. They actually have a food court with Taco Bell, McD, and others at normal prices.

And the location is.. the Riveria.

Riveria Hotel and Casino convention map! (http://www.rivierahotel.com/images/conventionmap.jpg) :biggrin:

[Adrenaline]

im gonna go ahead and bring this up now, as I'm sure a hundred other people will bring it up at some point, but be sure to address the concerns of any of the 'under 21' crowd. :-)

[Denny2000]

When and where can we make the reservations? Is it too early to make them now?

Are we going to have DefConTV still?
Does the Rivera have high-speed Internet in room? If so, how much?

I think thats all the questions for now.
Denny

[pr0zac0x2a]

im gonna go ahead and bring this up now, as I'm sure a hundred other people will bring it up at some point, but be sure to address the concerns of any of the 'under 21' crowd. :-)

Thank god I turned 21 this year. Perfect timing on my part I must say.

Any other details as far as reserving deals/rooms set aside for con goers?

-zac

[astcell]

At the new hotel you have to be 22. :-)

[AlxRogan]

It looks like there are a good number of smaller meeting rooms. I think it would be very cool if we could get the "breakout" rooms going in those. That way if someone shows up with some good material, they could find a decent spot to talk and discuss. I figure if someone's being an asshat, the crowd would just leave or get someone else up there.

[Xodia]

With Defcon being at the Riviera this opens up alot more possibilities for cheap rooms right next to the con (not that it is an issue with rooms AT the con being so cheap now). Being part of the under 21 crowd I may have to readjust some plans a bit, but overall I see the change as something that is going to make Defcon a whole lot better.

Not to mention getting back from Quarks is easy as pie now.

[astcell]

Can we make reservations now?

[allentrace]

Can we make reservations now?

just tried if you go by their online site if gives you number to cal if you go by vegas.com it says the rooms are booked up. guess I will give the phone a try

[pr0zac0x2a]

At the new hotel you have to be 22. :-)

Well good thing I'll be 22 by con time next year huh? :-P

-zac

[allentrace]

Well good thing I'll be 22 by con time next year huh? :-P

-zac

well I cannot wait to turn 21 so I can gamble my life away.....cool bean just got a room quote of basically $100 for a 5 night stay which I think I will go ahead and do though I will wait to make my reservations till the first of the year.

[Deviant Ollam]

it has grounds just like the AP ... HUGE pools too :biggrin:that is what would matter a great deal to me, grounds that are spread out and flowing as opposed to a high-rise building hotel style design. at defcon i've met probably ten times the number of people that i meet at events like HOPE or (no offense to the crew) ShmooCon. not any of those orgainizers' fault... east coast cities don't generally have large, spread out grounds for their resorts. when in vegas, however, i'm all about going for such a scene since it's far and away better than being stuck in corridors and behind closed doors.

[big chopper]

<snip>And the location is.. the Riveria.<snip>


COOL!
--bc,

[GodMinusOne]

This would be a cool idea:

http://www.rivierahotel.com/gaming_chips.asp

Defcon 14 Gaming Chips

[alklloyd]

Riviara...hmm doesn't sound too bad. My question: are discounted rates a possibility?

Al

[CP99]

This would be a cool idea:

http://www.rivierahotel.com/gaming_chips.asp

Defcon 14 Gaming Chips

Thats an intriguing idea, like a DC14 giveaway, collect all 30,000!

[GodMinusOne]

Riviara...hmm doesn't sound too bad. My question: are discounted rates a possibility?

Al

Said by DT himself in this exact same thread:

Well, I believe the rates are like $89 or so. I'll go look at the contract, but it is quite a bit cheaper than the AP.

[astcell]

You're thinking of the Riviera. The Riveria is $8/night and you need to bring your own sheets.

[alklloyd]

Oh yeah, forgot... posted after I checked the rates on their website. That would be a big discount.

Al

[allentrace]

This would be a cool idea:

http://www.rivierahotel.com/gaming_chips.asp

Defcon 14 Gaming Chips

I am hoping to get PokerCon (http://forum.defcon.org/showthread.php?t=4764&highlight=Pokercon) off and running with DC14 and if priniting up personal chips seems like the way to go as we get closer to Con time that will probably be the best option

[TheCotMan]

We DO NOT HAVE ALL THE SPACE for 2006 or 2007.
What will be done to ensure parties can go on for hours without Non-DC Guests complaining?
What can be done to help ensure "party rooms" are placed near each other and "we only want to sleep" rooms are placed together? (The AP, spread-out nature allowed louder parties with fewer people annoyed.)

If you find a map of the place, we have the side with the sky boxes plus some other space to the left of the right hand box. I'll detail it all out in the official announcement.
Here is a PDF of the hotel with rooms that people can download and resize well enough to read the text. [2324497 bytes] (http://www.rivierahotel.com/hotelmap.pdf)
When citing space use, having the same page will help make relative location description make more sense, and ensure we are all on the same page. (heh heh)

They are happy to work with us, and they are not trying to get rich off of food prices. They actually have a food court with Taco Bell, McD, and others at normal prices.
Excellent. They are also closer to "The Strip" which means access access to high availabbility public transport.
PDF of All CAT (Bus) routes on a map (http://www.rtcsouthernnevada.com/cat/sysmap/systemmap5-05.pdf), and Route number list (http://www.rtcsouthernnevada.com/cat/routes/allroutes.htm) and PHP Script to find schedule per route (http://www.rtcsouthernnevada.com/cat/routes/index.php).

And the location is.. the Riveria (map (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=2901+Las+Vegas+Blvd.+South,++Las+Vegas,+NV&spn=0.029106,0.055610&hl=en))

We still are thinking aobut how to lay out the space, and once I post the layout of the space we do have for 2006 I would be good if you guys could think it through as well.
Questions about on-site locations for unofficial meetings and events (Forum Meet, Summit (if hosted again, but at the con), QC, DJ Events, etc. Will these be included in planning?

Pool space. How extensively is it monitored? Will music be allowed in that space? Will we be able to take over "The CourtYard" that appears to be located next to the pool to allow DJ to spin "by the pool" ? Will the pools be closed during DefCon? What is the policy on Alcohol? Containers (glass, etc) bringing kegs, and bottles of hard liquor to rooms, drinking on the premisis, on the way to rooms, near the convention space, in the convention space? Is food allowed in the convention space? Everywhere?

Information gathered about the area:

Quoted (http://www.rivierahotel.com/conventions.html):
"The hotel also offers valet and complimentary self-parking in an enclosed 1,600-space covered parking garage."
Rockin. Parking won't be like it was at the AP when it took an hour to find a spot in the middle of the day. (~4 years ago.)

Park search for TBBQ or other off-site events:
Using the quadralateral created with (East/west Streets) E. Desert Inn Rd. and W. Sahara Ave., along with (North/South streets) Paradise Rd. and S. Las Vegas Blvd. and This Map (http://www.co.clark.nv.us/Parks/Park_Locations.htm) giives us "parks" [3],[36],[41],[31],[6],[2] which yeilds park names with lookup table (http://www.co.clark.nv.us/Parks/Cross_Street_Information.htm) 3) Cambridge Recreation Center, 36) Molasky Park, 41) Orr School Park, 31) Lynwood Park, 6) Cannon Aviation Museum, 2) Clark County Amphitheater ( Clark County Parks are open daily from 6: 00 a. m. - 11: 00 p. m.)

The above parks are probably small, and may not have BBQ Grills or not allow BBQ. Larger parks (http://www.co.clark.nv.us/Parks/Picnic_Areas.htm):
* 7.1 miles to Sunset Park (http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=2901+S+Las+Vegas+Blvd,Las+Vegas,+NV&daddr=2700+E+Sunset+Rd,Las+Vegas,+NV&hl=en) (Site of TBBQ 1 and TBBQ 2)
* 5.0 miles to West Flamingo Park (http://maps.google.com/maps?spn=0.058222,0.111219&saddr=2901+S+Las+Vegas+Blvd,Las+Vegas,+NV&daddr=6255+W.+Flamingo+Road,Las+Vegas,+NV&hl=en)
* 5.4 miles from hotel to Paradise Park (http://maps.google.com/maps?spn=0.058226,0.111219&saddr=2901+S+Las+Vegas+Blvd,Las+Vegas,+NV&daddr=4775+McLeod+Drive,Las+Vegas,+NV&hl=en)
* 8.2 miles to Whitney Park (http://maps.google.com/maps?spn=0.058228,0.111219&saddr=2901+S+Las+Vegas+Blvd,Las+Vegas,+NV&daddr=5712+Missouri+Ave,+Las+Vegas,+NV+89122&hl=en)
* 16 .6 miles to Mountain Crest Park (http://maps.google.com/maps?spn=0.116349,0.222439&saddr=2901+S+Las+Vegas+Blvd,Las+Vegas,+NV&daddr=4445+N+Jensen+St,+Las+Vegas,+NV+89129&hl=en)

Thinking about a DefCon shoot this year? Consider:
*** New Shooting Park is being planned (http://www.co.clark.nv.us/Parks/Shooting_Park.htm) (If DC Shoot is planned) (May not be ready by Con. I don't see an opening date. Can't find Decator and Buffallo intersecting Moccasin Rd. GUESS for location: ~20.6 miles from Hotel (http://maps.google.com/maps?spn=0.239924,0.445530&t=h&saddr=2901+S+Las+Vegas+Blvd+,Las+Vegas,+NV&daddr=Moccasin+Road,+Las+Vegas,+NV&hl=en)

Amusing info:
The Hotel has duct tape (http://www.rivierahotel.com/conventions_audiovisual.html) available from their AV Support. :-)
They have Printable Coupons (http://www.rivierahotel.com/gaming_coupons.html). Oooo! Free hat. Heh.
3 Different rooms (http://www.rivierahotel.com/roomsreservations_roomdetails.html) Heh. Different lense filters too.

[Deviant Ollam]

a question that i haven't seen discussed as of yet with respect to the Riviera... what of the TV feeds? will we be able to feed the talks to the rooms? what about the movie channel? most likely it's too soon to know, but if there are any rumors one way or the other, well let them fly and start a whole storm of speculation. :biggrin:

[big chopper]

will we be able to feed the talks to the rooms?

In my opinion, the main reason for feeding talks to rooms was that we couldn't cruise the con--walling from talk to talk, looking for an interesting topic. That and the fact that the lines, waiting to get into talks, became unbearable.

Hopefully, we will be able to attend DEFCON the way we did a few years ago without violating fire code, which greatly dictated the process at AP.

THE RIV IS A GREAT CHOICE!
--BC,

[h3adrush]

In-room computer data port: Yes.
Minimum age to reserve a room: 18 years.
Convention rooms: Yes, 150,000-square-foot convention center.

according to vegas.com

[CP99]

In-room computer data port: Yes.
Minimum age to reserve a room: 18 years.
Convention rooms: Yes, 150,000-square-foot convention center.

according to vegas.com


Sounds good to me, Especially the Minimum age to reserve a room. Me thinks that I shall be able to attend this year.

[Siviak]

will we have acccess to the sky boxes? if so I would like to reserve one now :biggrin:

[Mata Hari]

Woops...my bad,so much for that idea.
http://www.caesars.com/Reservations/main.aspx?HotelId=14&StepId=1hot
"Hot Deals" range from $140 (midweek) to $500 (weekend). I'd hate to see the ones that were not "deals".

Al


I must say, as a Vegas native, you have some really raunchy, horrific, true blue vegas locations- case and point with the El Cortez. HAHAHAH! Just moments away from the prestigious Fremont Street Experience, and while you're staying at the El Cortez, feel free to indulge in the delicious selections of STD's- crabs, herpes, syphilis, you name it, El Cortez has it! HAHAHAH http://www.vegas.com/resorts/elcortez/index.html?vc1=2&vc2=lhtl_lnk_cort_1

Seriously, though, The Stardust does get some props, and your best bet is to stray away from anything directly located on the strip (because, believe me, they know their location and charge for it, even if it is a shitty place), or a nicer venue that is near/on the strip, but has faded somewhat from the media'sl eyes(Harrahs could be an idea, and there is always the Ellis Island)-

I will drive around this evening and look for some possible areas. Tread lightly- many places are tourist traps, and if you don't have someone who knows the locale, you'll get screwed. Then again, Im certain that you are aware of this monstrosity, lol!


-Walsh

[Mata Hari]

Wow- Riviera is good- disregard my previous comments- But I do still suggest that you visit Ellis Island (Siviak and the DC702/2600 group know what I mean)I must say, as a Vegas native, you have some really raunchy, horrific, true blue vegas locations- case and point with the El Cortez. HAHAHAH! Just moments away from the prestigious Fremont Street Experience, and while you're staying at the El Cortez, feel free to indulge in the delicious selections of STD's- crabs, herpes, syphilis, you name it, El Cortez has it! HAHAHAH http://www.vegas.com/resorts/elcortez/index.html?vc1=2&vc2=lhtl_lnk_cort_1

Seriously, though, The Stardust does get some props, and your best bet is to stray away from anything directly located on the strip (because, believe me, they know their location and charge for it, even if it is a shitty place), or a nicer venue that is near/on the strip, but has faded somewhat from the media'sl eyes(Harrahs could be an idea, and there is always the Ellis Island)-

I will drive around this evening and look for some possible areas. Tread lightly- many places are tourist traps, and if you don't have someone who knows the locale, you'll get screwed. Then again, Im certain that you are aware of this monstrosity, lol!


-Walsh

[Siviak]

Tread lightly- many places are tourist traps, and if you don't have someone who knows the locale, you'll get screwed...

and if you're lucky you'll only pay half price for the screwing ... I agree with Mata Hari, you guys need some cool local cat on the ground here that can check things out and do stuff.... that would be cool

[jur1st]

The above parks are probably small, and may not have BBQ Grills or not allow BBQ

Not allow BBQ?? Lunacy. This is supposed to be America!

[renderman]

and if you're lucky you'll only pay half price for the screwing ... I agree with Mata Hari, you guys need some cool local cat on the ground here that can check things out and do stuff.... that would be cool

Sounds like you just volunteered :)

Photo's would be nice :)

Also, the budget suites in behind the stardust is'nt bad for the budget concious attendee. $250/week and they are'nt bad rooms and only a half mile or so from the riviera

[Deviant Ollam]

Photo's would be nice :)i agree wholeheartedly. the riviera's web site is just sad. with clickable popups, etc, you can "view the rooms" that they offer... all i got after temporarily disabling a bunch of browser security were three photos of beds that looked almost exactly the same, save for being different colors. yeah, thanks... that's a real big help in determining what style of room i want. =)

http://www.rivierahotel.com/images/roompicture_standard.jpg

http://www.rivierahotel.com/images/roompicture_deluxe.jpg

http://www.rivierahotel.com/images/roompicture_superior.jpg

heh, quick... can you tell which one is the "standard" which is the "superior" and which is the "deluxe" ?

maybe we could get a locla to give us some exterior photos... or something that gives people a general idea of the grounds as a whole (where the rooms are, the convention space, the pools and chill areas, etc) i'd take even a rough hand drawing that went through a scanner.

as for rooms, i miss how fully-featured the descriptions were on the alexis web site... with floorplans and all. does the riviera have something like that which i'm just not seeing?

[astcell]

I will be there this weekend and can take plenty of pictures. Let me know what you are looking for and I'll get it!


The middle picture with the robe is a little disturbing. Do you get a free robe with the room? or is there a girl in the shower? Or is the photographer nekkid?

[renderman]

I will be there this weekend and can take plenty of pictures. Let me know what you are looking for and I'll get it!


The middle picture with the robe is a little disturbing. Do you get a free robe with the room? or is there a girl in the shower? Or is the photographer nekkid?


Recon would be nice. You know what we're looking for. Gotta plan early where to put the inflatable pub (http://www.airquee.co.uk/pub/)

It's amazing how being at the same locale for so many years, we get used to things (i.e. automatic party at pool 2, dj action, etc.). Should be interesting to see what new traditions occur at the new location

[TheCotMan]

I will be there this weekend and can take plenty of pictures. Let me know what you are looking for and I'll get it!
Some suggestions for recon pictures:
Pictures of the pool and courtyard to show space that might be available for any kind of pool party.
Pictures of large open spaces for people to gather and "hang out."
Notes on businesses of interest nearby and their location. (resteraunts, 7-11, closest grocery stores) [If we have the names, we can google for locations.]
Pictures of the front of the Riviera from Las Vegas Blvd, and from Riviera Blvd.
Maybe a picture of the Menu from "Kady's Coffee Shop"
Pictures of the Buffet, and your opinion of what it looks like.
Picture of the Mardi Gras Food Court (showing names of places to eat)

Looks like "Monaco Tower" is closest to the convention space, with "the "Monte Carlo Tower" coming in second and "Mediteranian Tower" (South and north) coming in third and fourth and "San Remo Tower" coming in last. Is this what you see?

The middle picture with the robe is a little disturbing. Do you get a free robe with the room? or is there a girl in the shower? Or is the photographer nekkid?
My vote is for naked photographer.

[Voltage Spike]

My vote is for naked photographer.

Everything else in your post was a suggestion for what astcell should do this weekend. Should I assume this comment was made with the same intent?

[astcell]

The third photo shows a robe too, near the wine bottle. The TV is on in the pictures that show the TV.

I will ask if I can take a picture of the rooms too.

[Siviak]

YAY... recon for the masses... this should be fun. I feel sure that we can get lots of good pictures .... some of them might be of the hotel as well :biggrin:

[TheCotMan]

Everything else in your post was a suggestion for what astcell should do this weekend. Should I assume this comment was made with the same intent?
No, you should assume (u removed) so you can make an ass out of me. ;-)


The third photo shows a robe too, near the wine bottle. The TV is on in the pictures that show the TV.
I have another guess... The room was occupied by vampires, but the flash from the camera was like sunlight to them, and they combusted on the spot. Maybe vampires can be fuel for alternative fuel source engines? They only need sunlight to combust. That is like Solar power, eh?

I will ask if I can take a picture of the rooms too.
If you make it up to the room spaces, could you also photograph the hallways so we can see what kind of difficulties will exist in finding room parties that are public? (I am guessing it will be tough, since multiple towers and multiple floors will make searching for parties time consuming-- you can't just walk towards the noise. This also, probably means there are different levels of "newness" to rooms based on tower location.
Also shots of the bathroom, shower, sink(s) as well as closet (what kind of hangers and hanging system) for luggage, Back/Front of TV (where cables are connected), phones for various data/network jacks, and outlets (to know if they are grounded or "old fashioned" non-grounded plugs, and so we have an idea what space and resources will be available.

Your opinion on how helpful they are compared to AP employees would also be good.

Now I think I'll owe you a 4 pack of Guiness. Since you won't be there this year, I can try to make arrangements to snail-mail something to you (if your new location permits this) or just keep the IOU around until the next time we meet.

[renderman]

DIA = Defcon Intelligence agency

[Xodia]

I was just thinking, What if another convention is using the rest of the convention space during Defcon? Will the Riviera not let that happen or is it possible? I would hate to think that Defcon could possibly have to share convention space with the Gentle Christian Mothers of America.

I imagine security will be alot more staunch about badges this time around too. Given the flow of people in and out of the Riviera they are going to have to keep a good eye on who has a badge and who doesn't in Convention areas.

The party situation is interesting. There are going to be alot of people staying at the Riviera looking to have a good time in Vegas who don't know Defcon is there. I can see that leading to a whole lot more crashing of parties by people who have absolutely no reason to be there. Not to mention it could potentially lead to a sudden influx of stupid teens looking to get a drink while their parents are asleep.

Bouncers, Get your thug faces ready.

[Mata Hari]

and if you're lucky you'll only pay half price for the screwing ... I agree with Mata Hari, you guys need some cool local cat on the ground here that can check things out and do stuff.... that would be cool


Indeed, Siviak, Indeed. I am definitely not a cool cat, but if you are seeking a protege, I will accompany you to show these fine young tourists (I mean that in the most repectable way, mind you) around town....

ASTCell- if you are in Vegas this weekend, and need/want a chauffeur, feel free to contact me.

-Walsh

PS- Deviant, yes, there are issues with Riviera, but have no fear- they have one of the oldest topless shows, Splash, and the national billiards competition is held there sometimes. Great location, and it is very vintage/old school (as much as Vegas can be with regard to the strip). Yes, there are some ghetto features, but it merely adds character. If you want to stay at other places, you know my # darling :wink:

Notorious Canadian Hacker (You know it, hahahah)- Budget Suites is an interesting suggestion- be careful with them though - however you make a very valid point- also, you have Crazy Horse II strip club down the street, and the infamous Elvis museum hahahah! In addtion, Riviera is conveniently situated near Strip Club Drive (pick and choose adult superstores and cabarets at your liesure, but again, be weary, hehehehh)

Im going to cruise by there tonight and feel it out a little bit more (no pun intended!!!)

[Siviak]

Bouncers, Get your thug faces ready.

BAH! we learned years ago not to go with second rate bouncers or thugs. What we learned is that our budget was only big enough to get fourth rate goons... but they seem to have done ok.

[TheCotMan]

I was just thinking, What if another convention is using the rest of the convention space during Defcon? Will the Riviera not let that happen or is it possible? I would hate to think that Defcon could possibly have to share convention space with the Gentle Christian Mothers of America.

I imagine security will be alot more staunch about badges this time around too. Given the flow of people in and out of the Riviera they are going to have to keep a good eye on who has a badge and who doesn't in Convention areas.
If it will be like DC when it was at hotels with Casinos, then badges are only checked at the specific locations where presentations take place. Though DefCon is getting bigger every year, I doubt that they will close the building (Casino/Hotel/Resteraunts/bars) to anyone but DefCon attendees. :-)

Since it appears as though much of the convention area has a constraint on ways-into-and-out-of-the-convention-area, it is more likely that badges will be checked in those locations. (Educated guess)

The party situation is interesting. There are going to be alot of people staying at the Riviera looking to have a good time in Vegas who don't know Defcon is there. I can see that leading to a whole lot more crashing of parties by people who have absolutely no reason to be there. Not to mention it could potentially lead to a sudden influx of stupid teens looking to get a drink while their parents are asleep.
Part of this can be arbitrated through bouncing based on possession of a DefCon pass-- but that does not help for Post BH, Pre DC parties.

If people who register with "DefCon" as they checking/reserve a room, then DefCon could be granted ranges of floors. Some modern casino/hotel have room-key requirements to call elevators. Some elevators allow for coded-access, where selection of a floor also required keying a "code" using floor numbers to gain access to specific floors, and other use special "Security keys" to get to restricted locations (roof, basement, etc.) Things like these could also be used to raise the bar-- of course, this are mostly based on shared secrets, or are easily beat by things like tailgating / SE.

I have no idea what restrictions the Riveira has in place, and what security features they can enable on their elevators.

[astcell]

...oldest topless shows? You mean granny pr0n? :P

I wonder if the Goons will be approached by tourists looking for restrooms and the like. Maybe this is a good year to write their shirts in Swahili. :>

Defcon Intelligence Agency .... now that ought to be the Goon rank for the con! Luvit!

[renderman]

Budget Suites is an interesting suggestion- be careful with them though - however you make a very valid point- also, you have Crazy Horse II strip club down the street, and the infamous Elvis museum hahahah! In addtion, Riviera is conveniently situated near Strip Club Drive (pick and choose adult superstores and cabarets at your liesure, but again, be weary, hehehehh)

Location, location, location...

I stayed there for DC 8-10 (it was cheap). Was'nt bad, but certianly nothing compared to the HRH or other hotels I've stayed at since. Just presenting it as an off site, cheap, tolerable choice for the inevitably budget constrained. Though I'll probobly be crashing in Deviants bathtub at the rate my budget it going :)

My major concern is that having had the run of the AP for so many years and having the outdoor 'leisure' area's to party in we've been spoiled (as a 5000 person group), things might get ugly being indoors.

Keep in mind it's been a long time since DC was at an 'indoor' hotel (DC6 I think) and the crowd that has joined since then seems to get more and more immature. To suddenly try to contain that energy and attitude indoors and with more 'rules', sounds like a recipie for several disasters, big and small.

Not to speculate too much, but hopefully aggrements can be struck to allow access to pool/courtyards, etc after hours (with badge maybe) to allow that energy out.

I usually assume the worst and find myself pleasently surprised when it does'nt happen. Hopefully the goons/orginizers are covering these thoughts and disaster can be avoided. Remeber, it's been a while since they had to blow up a hotel after we were there :)

I was just thinking, What if another convention is using the rest of the convention space during Defcon? Will the Riviera not let that happen or is it possible? I would hate to think that Defcon could possibly have to share convention space with the Gentle Christian Mothers of America.

hehehe, It was alot of fun when that happened at shmoocon. GM1 has better stories than I do, but to explain: There was some interfaith conference going on at the same time as shmoocon (lotsa nuns running around).

I for one would love the entertainment value of such a conference sharing space with us :)

p.s was'nt there some religious revival leaving the AP one year just as we were arriving?

[noid]

I was at the new location a while back. Lets just say our overcrowding problems will be a thing of the past.

There will definately be some culture shock to the attendees. Particularly the ones that only attended Defcon when it was at the AP and have never experienced it in a Casino/Hotel environment. I think the first year or so there will be an 'adjustment' period with the hotel and the attendees. All I ask is that if you check out the location ahead of time (I guess some of you are going this weekend), please be on your best behaviour. The last thing we need is Defcon attendees showing up in October of 2005 and saying 'we're totally gonna destroy this place next year'. Its going to be crazy enough when DC finally happens there next year, lets not get them worked up ahead of time.

[erehwon]

As far as on the ground local hotel intelligence for Lost Wages, I have used Cheapo Vegas (http://www.cheapovegas.com) in the past as the basis for learning the ups and downs of where to stay in Vegas nearby the Alexis Park.

Highlight reel of Cheapo Vegas' review of the Riviera (http://www.cheapovegas.com/vegas_casino_full.php?hotel_id=1042)

Less than twenty years ago, this was the biggest casino in the world, and one of the brightest jewels in Las Vegas' crown. Then in the 1990's, the town went really nuts with huge resorts, and the poor li'l Riv got left in the dust. It's still an okay hotel, but lacks the luxury of the newer places. The casino used to be a lot of fun, with tons of live gaming, but nowadays you see a lot more slots and the crowd tends to be a little older and quieter.

The Hotel

Room Quality: There are four towers, all built during different expansions. The nicest and newest rooms are in the Monaco and Monte Carlo towers. They are larger and many have refrigerators (Monaco also has floor safes for an extra fee). They also cost a bit more, unless you can sweet-talk the front desk clerk. The cheapest rooms are the oldest, and they are in the shorter Mediterranean and San Remo towers. The Mediterranean rooms are right over the casino, if you like a short walk. The San Remo rooms overlook the pool. They are from a time when overlooking the pool was best, because there wasn't much to see on the Strip.

Service Quality: Fair. This is an older hotel for moderate incomes. If you can take care of yourself and only need a decent room for sleeping, it's okay. If you want someone to clip your toenails for you, go to the Bellagio. Be warned, this place will nickel and dime you on phone calls and other unexpected costs.

Clientele: Middle-aged to senior citizens of middle-class stature. This used to be one of the nicest places on the Strip, but it's been overtaken by everything built since the late 1980s and has gone down-market in response. It's a fine hotel, just not glitzy enough for some people.

How's the Pool? Okay. The pool doesn't have any theme except for a giant tile "R" built into its floor. It's a good place to sun or swim, but not to find hardbodies or be seen.

[...]


Given the good recommendation from the above mentioned website (http://www.cheapovegas.com), I'll be looking forward to this weekend's imagery intelligence of the battlefi.. err, convention space. :biggrin:

[Dutch]

The third photo shows a robe too, near the wine bottle. The TV is on in the pictures that show the TV.

I will ask if I can take a picture of the rooms too.

Skip any potential Pool2girl pics please.. :wink: Have to show<Rumpole> she who must be obeyed</Rumpole> the reconphotos to persuade her that we should go to the US next year in time for DC.

Dutch

[astcell]

Looks like me Riviera Recon will have to wait for another weekend. My hands will be full in Vegas this trip.

[Deviant Ollam]

Looks like me Riviera Recon will have to wait for another weekend. My hands will be full in Vegas this trip.no problem at all, man. we thank you for even being willing to do this for those of us who have never seen the new place. all that you do is always appreciated! :biggrin:

[TheCotMan]

Looks like me Riviera Recon will have to wait for another weekend. My hands will be full in Vegas this trip.

Tis ok man. I'll still get you a beer.

[astcell]

Then again anytime you wanna pay for my gas I am there.

[Mata Hari]

Have no fear with the pool situation, gentlemen (and ladies)... I have a wonderful social engineering tactic taight to me by a colleague with Thai mafia "contacts"... it is absolutely brilliant, and will get you into any pool in Vegas (Belaggio, Hard Rock, Wynn, any of them!!!)


Curious, you say? Feel free to private message me (you'll thank me for this one, of this I assure you, hahahah), and you can actually pull it off well, because you are not entirely bullshitting your way into the pool. I have done it several times, and have experienced sheer bliss! Best part, it costs you no money, and no sexual favors-


ASTCell- Granny porn? HEHEHE- nah, sweetheart, that is at Larrys Villa (the gutter of crackwhore strip joints, I mean, we're talking serious infiltration of trailer park status, biker crank, and stretch marks- a side of Vegas that you dont want to see! HAHAHAH!) Even if you are shitfaced beyond the point of no return, you will still have a very difficult time watching these chicks pole dance- I dare say more, lest I lose my lunch!

Render- No, youre right, location, location, location... It is very nice, and if Budget Suites does not suit your fancy, there is always Blair House Suites, which is down the street just a bit further, and damn near right on the strip. Better to be Budget Suites behond Riviera than Budget Suites on Boulder Highway- I'll leave that story for another time.

As for the Deviant/tub thing, I will supply a tub for you and Grey, and Deviant and I can always share the shower- oops, did I say that aloud? hahahahah just kidding! :wink:

cheapovegas.com, Ive never heard of that one. Interesting...

[allentrace]

Have no fear with the pool situation, gentlemen (and ladies)... I have a wonderful social engineering tactic taight to me by a colleague with Thai mafia "contacts"... it is absolutely brilliant, and will get you into any pool in Vegas (Belaggio, Hard Rock, Wynn, any of them!!!)

I doubt it for some reason Casinos are really cracking down on non guests using their pools and are not shy about telling someone to leave.

[Mata Hari]

I doubt it for some reason Casinos are really cracking down on non guests using their pools and are not shy about telling someone to leave.

I understand your doubt, but with all do respect, I have been here my whole life, and it can be pulled off. Youd be surprised how stringent security can be here (it also depends on what time of day you go, etc etc.). It does not work for everyone, certainly, because not everyone can pull it off. But speaking from personal experience and from others, it can be done, many times over. If you are pressed on it, then you simply go to another casino. You have to play the part in order to win the accolades. Perception is a powerful tool.

[Mata Hari]

I understand your doubt, but with all do respect, I have been here my whole life, and it can be pulled off. Youd be surprised how stringent security can be here (it also depends on what time of day you go, etc etc.). It does not work for everyone, certainly, because not everyone can pull it off. But speaking from personal experience and from others, it can be done, many times over. If you are pressed on it, then you simply go to another casino. You have to play the part in order to win the accolades. Perception is a powerful tool.

Bah, I meant stingy- you are taking the stringent stance, I am arguing stingy- mea culpa, mea culpa- neural transmitters must have gotten crossed, and/or Im a real dumbass today. Probably both, hehehe

[allentrace]

Bah, I meant stingy- you are taking the stringent stance, I am arguing stingy- mea culpa, mea culpa- neural transmitters must have gotten crossed, and/or Im a real dumbass today. Probably both, hehehe

Next Defcon I will have to look you up. Alas my knowledge comes from hearsay and not actual experience so I will take your word for it.

[[Syntax]]

I've been inside the casino area of Riviera many a time, but never been to the back part of the building where the convention areas and hotel rooms are. Im interested to see if I want to stay there or across the street at Circus Circus.

The major pluses I can see is the foodcourt in Riviera and the food across the street. The other plus is plenty rooms, between Westward Ho, Circus & Riviera
everyone should be able to stay within walking distance. Even Stardust is pretty close.

Westward Ho & Slots of Fun has really cheap food specials. The 1/2lb & 3/4lb hotdog with chili for $1.29, and a breakfast special, sausage biscuits, country gravy, scrambled eggs, and bacon for $2.50.

Riviera recently changed out resturaunts so Im not sure whats there aside from chinese food. I think the burger king is gone, but there is a Mcdonalds inside Circus Circus. So deffinately some cheap sources of food nearby.

So between the con admission going up, the hotels price going down, and the fact people are going to be walking thru a casino. The total cost is going to break even. Plus everyone who wants to can stay nearby.

[alklloyd]

Westward Ho & Slots of Fun has really cheap food specials. The 1/2lb & 3/4lb hotdog with chili for $1.29, and a breakfast special, sausage biscuits, country gravy, scrambled eggs, and bacon for $2.50.
Would have been nice but...
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/travel/articles/0925lasvegas0925.html

Al

[big chopper]

']...Im interested to see if I want to stay there or across the street at Circus Circus.

...between Westward Ho, Circus & Riviera
everyone should be able to stay within walking distance. Even Stardust is pretty close.

I've been going to to Las Vegas 2-3 times a year for the last ten years, and Circus Circus is ONE PLACE I will NEVER stay. I'd stay at other dumps (I'm a big fan of downtown), but NEVER CIRCUS CIRCUS!

Hunter S. Thompson said it best in "Fear and loathing in las vegas", where he wrote:
"The Circus-Circus is what the whole hep world would be doing Saturday night if the Nazis had won the war. This is the sixth Reich."

Circus Circus is absolutely creepy (and filled with unsupervised kids).

And, like another poster said, The 'Ho is closing for demolition in November.
No more $1.99 Mega Dogs, $0.05 Coffee or $1.00 Margaritas.
--BC,

[Mata Hari]

Next Defcon I will have to look you up. Alas my knowledge comes from hearsay and not actual experience so I will take your word for it.
Most definitely, Allentrace- Im certain we will cross paths at the next Con... be it staggering or sober, haha. Good times in many pools to come! Perhaps we will go and party with some crazy Vegas Libertarians, heheh.

Your knowledge is worth more than you may think :wink:

Syntax- About the Westward Ho, true, it is cheap and being torn down, but the Klondike casino is also worth checking out for cheap coffee, food, and an overall dingy cheap Vegas feel. It is a bit further than Ho, (across from Mandalay Bay to be exact), but you cant beat the "blue collar" environment- I use that phrase to its extremity.

I wholeheartedly agree, Circus Circus is a cesspool of whiny, obnoxious children, adults, and clowns. Horrible, horrible clowns <<shudders>> Thompson was so right on on many things...

Beware of the Boardwalk Hotel/Casino- unless, of course, you really want to see one of the best Prince cover bands in Las Vegas- it is more surreal than a Dali painting- or, at the very least, damn close....

[[Syntax]]

I always seen people griping about rooms, I mean I really dont understand it..
Its just a room. When Im in Vegas Im only in the room to sleep for like 6 hours. The most broken down room I've stayed in was at Binions downtown.. but it was $25 a night. I cant see spending $130 or more to stay in a room.

I've never stayed at Riviera, because Id rather be in a hotel with some children, (Ive never seen the hoard of them all of you refer too) than Riviera where its full of the opposite.

Im wondering if the hotel will adapt to the con, or the con will adapt to the hotel. Seeing how this hotel is a casino, and the hotel is popular with the retired senior citizens crowd.


Anyhow.. While looking around I found this VR view of a convention room there.

VR View of a Convention Room at Riviera (http://www.rivierahotel.com/vrtours/vrtours_convention_capri.html)

Also found this information.
Riviera has 2,100 rooms, 158 directly adjacent to the convention floor.
Circus Circus has 3,774. Directly across the street from Riviera ($40-$65)
Stardust has 1,500 rooms. About a half block walk. (about $80)

And yeah I found that info about Westward HO being blown to bits soon. Defcon only missed being held in a demolished hotel by about 700 feet.

[renderman]

']

Anyhow.. While looking around I found this VR view of a convention room there.

VR View of a Convention Room at Riviera (http://www.rivierahotel.com/vrtours/vrtours_convention_capri.html)

Looks a bit small, but that does appear to be an airwall on the right, might make it big enough for a small talk, but I hope there's something bigger.

']
Im wondering if the hotel will adapt to the con, or the con will adapt to the hotel.

And that's the $64K question. I hope that things are mutual and that both sides cut slack

[[Syntax]]

yeah the convention floor is divided up with those false walls they showed that on the previous post of the convention floor..

[kruptos]

Dates for Defcon?

Hey all I see alot of great discussion about the place, but have dates been released yet for DefCon 14? I am thinking of reserving a time share and need to try to reserve it as far out as I can :-)

Thanks for any info!

[allentrace]

Dates for Defcon?

Hey all I see alot of great discussion about the place, but have dates been released yet for DefCon 14? I am thinking of reserving a time share and need to try to reserve it as far out as I can :-)

Thanks for any info!

You know this could be stretching things a bit but I imagine DC14 will be somewhere in early August maybe within the span of 3 days, that is if it is not cancelled which has been known to happen.

[DisneyFreak96]

damn. That convention room VR reminds me of the Marriot in Ventura. Now that was a hell hole of an experience. :evil:

[kruptos]

OK I found it on one of the pages. It is scheduled between August 1 - 3 in Las Vegas.

I hope they dont cancel it I am gonna set up my time share for that week :-)

Thanks!!

[TheCotMan]

OK I found it on one of the pages. It is scheduled between August 1 - 3 in Las Vegas.

I hope they dont cancel it I am gonna set up my time share for that week :-)

Thanks!!

Hm. I do not think you have the right dates. Aug 1-3, 2006 is Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday.
2006:

July August
Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
1 1 2 3 4 5
2 3 4 5 6 7 8 6 7 8 9 10 11 12
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
16 17 18 19 20 21 22 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
23 24 25 26 27 28 29 27 28 29 30 31
30 31

It is more likely to be July 28, 29, 30, but this is just an educated guess, not an informed one.
Added Content:
Looks like I am wrong. See the post below with a link to the published date.

[Denny2000]

OK I found it on one of the pages. It is scheduled between August 1 - 3 in Las Vegas.

Defcon 14 is August 4-6.
Here is the link (http://www.defcon.org/html/links/other-conventions.html)
Unless it isn't cancelled already. :shock:

[big chopper]

I was looking at Expedia to compare the room rates at AP post DEFCON. Looks like they'll miss us.

DEFCON 13 Rates
$139.00 $139.00 $139.00

Proposed rates for same room during DEFCON 14 (but wiithout DEFCON)
$102.00 $102.00 $71.00

Assuming they sell out all 500 rooms--which was a lock with DEFCON--the difference is $71,000.00. Since the Expedia rates include a commission, the true difference is more than that.

PLUS, we drank like fish,
--BC,

[Mata Hari]

Syntax-

My apologies. I must not have been very clear as to what I meant to say. Riviera doesnt have many children(or maybe it does, but I havent seen many of them when I went there, with the possible exception of the arcade right next to the food court), but Circus Circus does, and I was actually referring to Circus Circus- especially near the Adventure Dome...

Binions for $25? When was that?!?! Binions isnt that bad, compared to some other very shady hotels around downtown.

[big chopper]

Syntax-
Binions for $25? When was that?!?! Binions isnt that bad, compared to some other very shady hotels around downtown.

During the summer, it's easy to find a midweek downtown room for under $30/night. And unlike AP, The Riviera is an easy bus ride from downtown. Just take a 301 or 302 (express).

BTW: The downtown hotels on or just off Fremont are just fine, however, you might stay clear of :
The Western (don't stay there),
The El Cortez (nice in the daytime), or
The Gold Spike (a heck of a lot of fun and my home for DEFCON 10)

--BC,

[alklloyd]

BTW: The downtown hotels on or just off Fremont are just fine, however, you might stay clear of :
The Western (don't stay there),
The El Cortez (nice in the daytime), or
The Gold Spike (a heck of a lot of fun and my home for DEFCON 10)

--BC,

Umm, why are you saying to stay clear of a hotel you liked?
Just curious,

Al

[Voltage Spike]

Umm, why are you saying to stay clear of a hotel you liked?

Because big chopper obviously wants the opportunity to escape us "Defcon types" while sleeping. :smile:

[alklloyd]

You know this could be stretching things a bit but I imagine DC14 will be somewhere in early August maybe within the span of 3 days, that is if it is not cancelled which has been known to happen.
Wow...how did you figure that out? You must be psychic. BTW, I agree with Dropkick Murphys, Queen, and Misfits...although that last tour felt like a good Misfits cover band...

Al

[allentrace]

Wow...how did you figure that out? You must be psychic. BTW, I agree with Dropkick Murphys, Queen, and Misfits...although that last tour felt like a good Misfits cover band...

Al

I completely agree except for the dates that danzig played with them although I did not get to see them then. I almost went up for the save CGBG Misfit concert in August but I just could not let myself blow a bunch of cash for it. Heh Agent of Orange, R.E.M. has a good song about that, now if I could only remember who else sang about Agent Orange (obviously besides Agent Orange the band) ...I guess I could use wikipedia to find out but that would take the fun out of it. This is gonna bug me all night.

[alklloyd]

I completely agree except for the dates that danzig played with them although I did not get to see them then. I almost went up for the save CGBG Misfit concert in August but I just could not let myself blow a bunch of cash for it. Heh Agent of Orange, R.E.M. has a good song about that, now if I could only remember who else sang about Agent Orange (obviously besides Agent Orange the band) ...I guess I could use wikipedia to find out but that would take the fun out of it. This is gonna bug me all night.
Jerry was with Deedee...and that other dude. Danzig wasn't there. Terminus City opened with Agent Orange and the New Misfits at the Masquerade in Atlanta.
The song your're thinking about is Bowling for Soup: "She loves the Godsmack and I love Agent Orange". Best guess.

Al

PS: REM was "Orange Crush". Glad to help.

[allentrace]

Jerry was with Deedee...and that other dude. Danzig wasn't there. Terminus City opened with Agent Orange and the New Misfits at the Masquerade in Atlanta.
The song your're thinking about is Bowling for Soup: "She loves the Godsmack and I love Agent Orange". Best guess.

Al

PS: REM was "Orange Crush". Glad to help.

got it no I was thinking of Depeche Mode's song about it, just heard it the other day on XM..

Glenn Danzig has announced the dates for the 2005 Blackest of the Black Tour. The tour will include headliners Danzig, as well as hardcore and black metal acts including Chimaira, Behemoth, Himsa, Mortiis (ex-Emperor), and The Agony Scene. Of some note is that each stop on the tour will feature a 30-minute Misfits set with Doyle von Frankenstein, Doyle previously joined Glenn for similar sets last fall.…

you were right I was thinking of last fall but still this years tour sounds interesting

[[Syntax]]

Syntax-
but Circus Circus does, and I was actually referring to Circus Circus- especially near the Adventure Dome...

Binions for $25? When was that?!?! Binions isnt that bad, compared to some other very shady hotels around downtown.

No No.. I was referring to Circus Circus.. aside from the adventure dome the casino itself usually dosent have much child traffic. Hotel security its pretty tight there about kids. The last time I was there I watched them force a family to get moving because the mother and 3 kids was waiting for dad to use the ATM.

But Im also a late night person, I sit and gamble in the middle of the night and dont tend to see children running around at that hour.

As for Binions.. it was a summer special, you had to mention a password when you called.. and they knocked like $10-15 off the room. However 1 of our rooms had no balcony.. but did have a door to the non existant balcony.. so you could basically open a door and jump off the 8th floor.. the next room over from us had no bathroom door.. not to mention the crazy design of the building, which is a maze of hallways that appear to be service passages, with only 1 elevator.

I've yet to stay anywhere as cheap both money wise and accomodation wise in vegas, or anywhere else for that matter.. you must have got a room in the newer part of the building.. Guess thats why is was only 25 bucks. I cant imagine the people who come for the Poker Tournament would stay in rooms like the one I had.

[eta]

']No No.. I was referring to Circus Circus.. aside from the adventure dome the casino itself usually dosent have much child traffic. Hotel security its pretty tight there about kids. The last time I was there I watched them force a family to get moving because the mother and 3 kids was waiting for dad to use the ATM.

But Im also a late night person, I sit and gamble in the middle of the night and dont tend to see children running around at that hour.

As for Binions.. it was a summer special, you had to mention a password when you called.. and they knocked like $10-15 off the room. However 1 of our rooms had no balcony.. but did have a door to the non existant balcony.. so you could basically open a door and jump off the 8th floor.. the next room over from us had no bathroom door.. not to mention the crazy design of the building, which is a maze of hallways that appear to be service passages, with only 1 elevator.

I've yet to stay anywhere as cheap both money wise and accomodation wise in vegas, or anywhere else for that matter.. you must have got a room in the newer part of the building.. Guess thats why is was only 25 bucks. I cant imagine the people who come for the Poker Tournament would stay in rooms like the one I had.

Finally some on topic, Vegas related comments.

Moderator, moderator were stuck talking about rock bands. Help!!

[alklloyd]

Finally some on topic, Vegas related comments.

Moderator, moderator were stuck talking about rock bands. Help!!
Well, excuse us .
Allentrace: bad!
Let's get back on track.
Most of the downtown hotels are POSs and the locals here will confirm that. If your expectations are low you may not mind them.

Al

[allentrace]

Well, excuse us .
Allentrace: bad!
Let's get back on track.
Most of the downtown hotels are POSs and the locals here will confirm that. If your expectations are low you may not mind them.

Al

Consider myself reprimanded :biggrin:
On track: the only reason Binions and other hotels on freemont street are staying in business is because they have amazing deals on food 24/7 and there coupon freebies for gambling are usually better than there upscale competitors.

[Quiet]

Most of the downtown hotels are POSs and the locals here will confirm that. If your expectations are low you may not mind them.

I concur with this. I've stayed at a few of the hotel/casinos in downtown Vegas and they are all pretty much run down. Don't expect much from them. But, for $25-35 a night, you do get a room with a bed and the door locks that are adequate enough to keep the undesirables out. So, if you are on a shoestring budget, they may be a good option for you.

BTW: The downtown hotels on or just off Fremont are just fine, however, you might stay clear of :
The Western (don't stay there),
The El Cortez (nice in the daytime), or
The Gold Spike (a heck of a lot of fun and my home for DEFCON 10)

After the first time I stayed at the El Cortez, I went and got a Nevada CCW permit.

[astcell]

Don't forget the High Hat. It's a rip off at $12/night.

Clean sheets are extra.

[Xodia]

Don't forget the High Hat. It's a rip off at $12/night.

Clean sheets are extra.

Hotels have ho's in the hallways and motels have mojo on the sheets. Thats always a good thing to remember before considering a motel. Trade offs have to be made somewhere.

300 posts.

[[Syntax]]

Finally some on topic, Vegas related comments.
Well my whole point was If I dont get a room at Riviera for one reason or another.. I won't be terribly dissapointed if I end up across the street and saving money. However some people here seem they would rather die or ride a bus 2 miles before they stayed at Circus.. seems rather ridiculous to me.

Im ready for the change though.. for better or worse.
Should be interesting to see how everything gets rearranged.

I've never been to a Defcon outside the AP.

[allentrace]

']Well my whole point was If I dont get a room at Riviera for one reason or another.. I won't be terribly dissapointed if I end up across the street and saving money. However some people here seem they would rather die or ride a bus 2 miles before they stayed at Circus.. seems rather ridiculous to me.

Im ready for the change though.. for better or worse.
Should be interesting to see how everything gets rearranged.

I've never been to a Defcon outside the AP.

Circus is fine do not believe all the shit you hear about them plus they have a great buffet and gaming incentives it is not all kiddy land.

[kallahar]

Remember that scene in Vegas Vacation where they go to the buffet and order food by color? Yeah, that's the circus circus buffet.

The acrobats in the gaming area were kinda cool though.

[noid]

Roughly 14 years ago at Defcon 1 I had something akin to a mental breakdown at the Circus Circus. Never been back. It was the environment of that place that pushed my head over the edge.

[enigma]

Anybody know the exact room rates at the Riviera for DefCon? The site doesn't let you see that far in advance.

[TheCotMan]

Anybody know the exact room rates at the Riviera for DefCon? The site doesn't let you see that far in advance.

I used this "old skool technique" called them on this thing they call the telephone, and dialed the 1-800 number for reservations on this page (http://www.rivierahotel.com/contactus.html) to find out.

These are the rooms that are available:
Standard Room-1 King Bed
Standard Room-2 Double Beds
Superior Room-1 King Bed
Superior Room-2 Double Beds
Deluxe Room-1 King Bed
Deluxe Room-2 Double Beds

When you say you are attending with DefCon, it seems you get a flat rate for rooms depending on number of occupants:
$92 1 or 2 people (All taxes included as of today: $100.28)
$112 3 or 4 people (All taxes included as of today $122.08)

When you say you are with DefCon, they will give "Deluxe Rooms" first (while supplies last- heh.)

The rates above are the same for weekday as they are for weekend.

While talking with the reservations person on the phone, it sounded like they had other room rates if you call and do not say you are with DefCon. These rates may allow you to get the "cheaper rooms." (Obviously, since I said I was with DefCon, I could not convincingly say I wasn't, so I could find out the non-con rates for weekdat and weekends.)

Someone else can do that recon.

[astcell]

I wonder if they are going to piul the same cancellatioin stunts as the AP did. I could reserve tomorrow, cancel the next day, and the AP would still keep a day's charge.

[allentrace]

I wonder if they are going to piul the same cancellatioin stunts as the AP did. I could reserve tomorrow, cancel the next day, and the AP would still keep a day's charge.

I think the AP did that because they were a small ass hotel that was rapidly losing patronage and therefore used any excuse to get money I do not think the current one will be like it.

[Tacitus]

Remember that scene in Vegas Vacation where they go to the buffet and order food by color? Yeah, that's the circus circus buffet.

The acrobats in the gaming area were kinda cool though.


And the secne where Mr. Papageorgio gets his fake ID outside of the Riviera- seems like it is apropos for defcon...

[Deviant Ollam]

I used this "old skool technique" called them on this thing they call the telephone, and dialed the 1-800 number for reservations on this page (http://www.rivierahotel.com/contactus.html) to find out.

These are the rooms that are available:
Standard Room-1 King Bed
Standard Room-2 Double Beds
Superior Room-1 King Bed
Superior Room-2 Double Beds
Deluxe Room-1 King Bed
Deluxe Room-2 Double Beds

When you say you are attending with DefCon, it seems you get a flat rate for rooms depending on number of occupants:
$92 1 or 2 people (All taxes included as of today: $100.28)
$112 3 or 4 people (All taxes included as of today $122.08)

<...>

Someone else can do that recon.well, i tried some recon of my own just now but to no avail. i called 800-634-6753, the room reservations number and spoke to "Helga" who was very polite but wholly unable to help me in any way with a reservation or rate info.

i explained the dates that i wanted and mentioned that it was part of a convention. she asked the name and couldn't find DefCon anywhere. she asked the dates again and said "hmm... i think i see something... is this the national something-or-other producer's convention?" or something like that. needless to say, it was not.

"perhaps they're still in negotiations and it's not finalized yet" she suggested. i mentioned that as far as i'm aware, there are already rates quoted and people may have already started booking. "do you know the names of anyone who may have booked already?" in lieu of calling out a bunch of hacker handles, i said no. she inquired what rates i had heard, i told her the ones CotMan mentioned above.

still unable to find anything in her system about DefCon, etc etc., she was forced to admit that there was nothing she could do for me in the way of reservations. maybe others will have better luck.

[TheCotMan]

well, i tried some recon of my own just now but to no avail. i called 800-634-6753, the room reservations number and spoke to "Helga" who was very polite but wholly unable to help me in any way with a reservation or rate info.
Maybe you called earlier.

I called the number ((800) 634-6753) after reading the post above, for which you quoted my response.

i explained the dates that i wanted and mentioned that it was part of a convention. she asked the name and couldn't find DefCon anywhere. she asked the dates again and said "hmm... i think i see something... is this the national something-or-other producer's convention?" or something like that. needless to say, it was not.

"perhaps they're still in negotiations and it's not finalized yet" she suggested. i mentioned that as far as i'm aware, there are already rates quoted and people may have already started booking. "do you know the names of anyone who may have booked already?" in lieu of calling out a bunch of hacker handles, i said no. she inquired what rates i had heard, i told her the ones CotMan mentioned above.
Funny. When she asked about the convention, I first said "a computer security convention." She then said I am not sure I see it. When I said "DefCon" she said, "hmmm," and when I spelled it "defcon" she said, "Oh, here it is. I did not think they had it that far in advance."

(I spent about 10 minutes on the phone for this.)

still unable to find anything in her system about DefCon, etc etc., she was forced to admit that there was nothing she could do for me in the way of reservations. maybe others will have better luck.
Not sure why I had success. Maybe try calling again and get someone with more information or the same person I spoke to last time.

If you don't have success again, I can try calling again next week or something, and pretend I am not with DefCon.

[Denny2000]

After reading Cotman's post I called up the 800 # and made my reservation.
The woman I talked to was very nice and the whole process only took about 10 min.
She did know that Defcon was being held there and knew the rates, so that was no problem.
I was told the cancelation fee is $14 and of course I had to pay for the first night upfront ($100.28).
I think that is all I can remember. Hope it helps. Denny

[TheCotMan]

After reading Cotman's post I called up the 800 # and made my reservation.
The woman I talked to was very nice and the whole process only took about 10 min.
She did know that Defcon was being held there and knew the rates, so that was no problem.
I was told the cancelation fee is $14 and of course I had to pay for the first night upfront ($100.28).
I think that is all I can remember. Hope it helps. Denny

Cool deal. Thanks man. Maybe you got the same person I did. :-)

[[Syntax]]

still unable to find anything in her system about DefCon, etc etc., she was forced to admit that there was nothing she could do for me in the way of reservations. maybe others will have better luck.

I called and spoke with Helga. She asked if I had called earlier.. , I assume she thought this was a small convention. So I informed her there would be about 5000 people calling at one point or another..

She said she appologized to whomever had called earlier, that she was unable to assist them, (she said they hung up). She told me this before she knew it was several thousand people.. I guess since she thought it was small, perhaps I knew the other person who called.

She laughed at first, and then said something like "oh my gosh".. anyhow.. she said the event shows up on the hotel calender as End of July because they schedule room bookings a few days before conventions usually. However they said they could not give me a number on how many rooms were blocked off for the convention (due to policy) but did say plenty.. and "quite a few"

Anyhow..
$92+9%tax for Deluxe Suites in the convention area for occupancy (2)
$112+9%tax for Deluxe Suites with extra charge for occupancy (3-4)

500' rooms available.. (I forgot the prices) but they are 1 king size
800' rooms available.. (I forgot the prices) 2 bedrooms
King rooms available for $350 rooms hold up to 6 people.


So there you go.. and Deviant Ollam, theres your apology..

[TheCotMan]

I am hoping to get PokerCon (http://forum.defcon.org/showthread.php?t=4764&highlight=Pokercon) off and running with DC14 and if priniting up personal chips seems like the way to go as we get closer to Con time that will probably be the best option

If you or someone else is genuine about this idea, get an ok for an unofficial event from DT, and we can open up a section in the forums for unofficial events.

[Deviant Ollam]

']She said she appologized to whomever had called earlier, that she was unable to assist them, (she said they hung up).heh, well, yes i hung up because that is the common action taken by both parties when a phone call has reached its conclusion. the hanging up occurred just after an exchange of "thank you" and "sorry i couldn't be of more help" and "oh, no problem"

maybe she was confused by my use of the phrase "goodbye" immediately preceeding the disconnection. :wink:

thanks for the updated info, i'll try again to book tomorrow.

[allentrace]

If you or someone else is genuine about this idea, get an ok for an unofficial event from DT, and we can open up a section in the forums for unofficial events.

Yeah I am actually serious about this and will send DT an e-mail asking for the permission to use the name Defcon PokerCon as an unofficial event that is as soon as I run out of papers to do for college :doubt: And I hope to get a site up and running shortly after that.
You plan on buying in CotMan? I would welcome the challenge.

[alklloyd]

Yeah I am actually serious about this and will send DT an e-mail asking for the permission to use the name Defcon PokerCon as an unofficial event that is as soon as I run out of papers to do for college :doubt: And I hope to get a site up and running shortly after that.
Sounds cool to me, but finding a time for it will probably be the hardest part...there are so many official/unofficial events...

Al

PS: Sunshine Highway rocks dude! (just to piss off mr-off-topic)

[TheCotMan]

You plan on buying in CotMan? I would welcome the challenge.

Nope. I generally limit my plans at DefCon to only a few events as "must-see" and the rest of the experiences I let happen through feeling and opportunity.

[allentrace]

Sounds cool to me, but finding a time for it will probably be the hardest part...there are so many official/unofficial events...

Al

PS: Sunshine Highway rocks dude! (just to piss off mr-off-topic)

Yeah the day will be the hardest and it will most def. have to be planned around Toxic BBQ, Forum Meet, Sushi Con, and the other big events...but have no fear I will figure it out.


Take another ride on the sunshine highway
Take another ride try to turn it around
Take another ride down the sunshine highway
Take another ride try to turn it around tonight

Nope. I generally limit my plans at DefCon to only a few events as "must-see" and the rest of the experiences I let happen through feeling and opportunity.
Well in that case I hope you will let me buy you a drink come Con time.

[xwred1]

I've only been to DC12 and DC13, but I really liked the way the AP had a kind of open layout so you could just wander around and see people doing stuff in public areas. I hope there is still some of that going at the Riviera.

[allentrace]

I've only been to DC12 and DC13, but I really liked the way the AP had a kind of open layout so you could just wander around and see people doing stuff in public areas. I hope there is still some of that going at the Riviera.

Nope. Consider yourself in the concrete jungle that is the strip in Las Vegas

[TheCotMan]

I've only been to DC12 and DC13, but I really liked the way the AP had a kind of open layout so you could just wander around and see people doing stuff in public areas. I hope there is still some of that going at the Riviera.

When DC moved to the AP, the purpose of the "Chillout Room" moved to the outside. It seems the "outside space" at the Riviera is much more limited.

Though it seems the site is down, http://www.rivierahotel.com/ has a map (mentioned earlier) that shows a small pool area. We'd probably need a larger "inside" chill-out space at the Riviera than we have had at the AP.

[warken]

site is down probably due to one of the defcon members doing a DoS ... :)

[enigma]

site is down probably due to one of the defcon members doing a DoS ... :)

I wonder if the hotel is thinking along the same lines....

[TheCotMan]

Most outages (IMO) are caused by poor tech support.

I'm guessing that they are in the process of migrating from an exposed MS Windows 2003 Server running IIS 6 to use a filter/proxy made by Symantec called "Enterprise Firewall / Raptor Firewall" and botched the process, or are just taking their time.

However, being the site of the next DefCon probably had something to do with that decision. ;-)

[big chopper]

http://virtualtim.com/vegas/riviera_pool.JPG
--BC,

[allentrace]

http://virtualtim.com/vegas/riviera_pool.JPG
--BC,

Nice picture you notice how the area is enclosed by buildings on all fours sides. Perfect for surveillance, now they do not have to use Black Helicopters.

[TheCotMan]

Image quoted from above (http://virtualtim.com/vegas/riviera_pool.JPG)

Nice picture. What is does well, is to show what kinds of space is available near the pool.
* It is larger than I expected.
* It appears to border on hotel rooms that overlook the pool

If we do not take up all of the hotel rooms, then:
* it seems likely that we may have problems taking over the whole pool area
* Late-night loud music around the pool seems unlikely.

Other issues:
How late is the pool area open?
EFF Dunk Tank/location
Drinks/containers near pools and encorfement by hotel security (glass/plastic)
Locations for Forum Meet, TBBQ, "Summit", LPCON, B&W Ball, QC, (and others) being on-site or off-site and where. (With assumtion for listed event happening again.)

[enigma]

I agree, the pool area would not be as bad as first thought.....if we had ALL of it. I forsee issues with the non-DefCon guests...

[big chopper]

I agree, the pool area would not be as bad as first thought.....if we had ALL of it. I forsee issues with the non-DefCon guests...

Let's not forget that there were always other people at AP too.
I remember at least one wedding party at AP during DEFCON.

Outsiders are part of the fun.
--BC,

[Voltage Spike]

Let's not forget that there were always other people at AP too.

Yes but it has been three years since we had to deal with a situation like that. Also note that Defcon 9 also happened to be amongst the worst with respect to noise, destruction, and general rowdiness.

I don't know if we have enough room coverage, but perhaps the Riviera could be warned and all the rooms facing the pool would be Defcon rooms? Of course it sounds as if our rooms are already locked in by contract...

[kallahar]

We'd probably need a larger "inside" chill-out space at the Riviera than we have had at the AP.

We just toured the Riv this weekend and took lots of pictures. Of *everywhere* ;) The convention area is huge, so I figure there will be a substantial chill area there. The pool/courtyard is tiny, the pool is about the size of pool1, and there will be a lot of non-con goers there. Basically, figure on no music or parties by the pool.

[lil_freak]

We just toured the Riv this weekend and took lots of pictures. Of *everywhere* ;)

<nudge, nudge>So, when can we plan on viewing these pictures?</nudge>

[Xodia]

Other issues:
How late is the pool area open?
EFF Dunk Tank/location
Drinks/containers near pools and encorfement by hotel security (glass/plastic)
Locations for Forum Meet, TBBQ, "Summit", LPCON, B&W Ball, QC, (and others) being on-site or off-site and where. (With assumtion for listed event happening again.)

I stayed at the Westward Ho right before con (its right across the street from the Riviera) and its not too bad of a drive to Sunset Park from there. It took about 15 minutes.

So for people going to the Toxic BBQ with their own car or riding with someone they know it wouldn't be too bad. For people without a car who would need a taxi it would be pretty harsh if they were coming alone. The cab ride would cost about $19 plus a tip.

A change in location might be a good idea depending on the ratio of people who come alone in cabs. I don't think thats a high margin though because most of the folks at the TBBQ are people who know most everyone anyway.

[TheCotMan]

Of course it sounds as if our rooms are already locked in by contract...

If I am remembering this correctly, the "Deluxe" rooms are closest to the convention space, and most of the rooms overlooking the pool are not deluxe rooms.

There is light at the end of the tunnel (http://forum.defcon.org/showthread.php?t=6356&page=2&pp=40#post69930):
Now before you get carried away, we DO NOT HAVE ALL THE SPACE for 2006 or 2007. It increases year by year depending on how much we use, with the first chance to take over the entire hotel in 2008.

We just toured the Riv this weekend and took lots of pictures. Of *everywhere* ;)
Excellent! Pictures, soon?

The convention area is huge, so I figure there will be a substantial chill area there. The pool/courtyard is tiny, the pool is about the size of pool1, and there will be a lot of non-con goers there. Basically, figure on no music or parties by the pool.
Thanks for answering some of the questions I had.

A change in location [for the TBBQ} might be a good idea depending on the ratio of people who come alone in cabs. I don't think thats a high margin though because most of the folks at the TBBQ are people who know most everyone anyway.
The question becomes, will there be one? Who is going to be the organizer? Londo?

[Siviak]

As Tacitus pointed out we did EXTINSIVE recon this weekend;

Pro's;

Food court has about 8 places to munch and from what I saw the prices were reasonable.
A SHITLOAD of convention space; we should be good for years to come.
Parking is not an issue
Location is great for the people that want to go play on the strip.
Finding something to do shoudl NOT prove an issue.

Con's;

The pool area sucks, it seemd smaller than pool 1 at the AP in my view.
Hijinks might not be quite as easy to get away with
"They let us do t last year" no longer works
Unless we are all in the same tower (which is a great option for crowd contol) it is going to be a pain in the ass to walk around and find parties.


those are just the things t