Anyone hear about BP gas?

[Lowie]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

I'd be interested in seeing what the comparison is if you take out taxes. I've seen one economic columnist claim that if you do that against many European prices, it turns out that the US gas prices are the same if not more expensive. It turns out the EU nations taxes are very high percentage of the pump price.

Unable to find any direct breakdown of Gas taxation, except for a 2 year old automotive industry transport and sale cost pdf, but going on the figures I found there, including sales tax and excise, the total tax percent on pump sold Gas is approx. 42% in Australia.

So, without tax, we'd be paying approx. 0.7917 AUD / Litre.

Scary. Not sure how this compares with US Gas Tax rates though.

[Grifter]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

The thing that bugged me the most is that these people think they were getting over on the oil companies when what they were really doing was fucking the owner of the station. They were stealing whether they want to justify it or not, and that's not cool. Someone should have told them that something was wrong, and hundreds didn't.

It makes me sad to see so little integrity.

[theprez98]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

The thing that bugged me the most is that these people think they were getting over on the oil companies when what they were really doing was fucking the owner of the station. They were stealing whether they want to justify it or not, and that's not cool. Someone should have told them that something was wrong, and hundreds didn't.

It makes me sad to see so little integrity.

I agree with this. I don't think most people realize the gas station/convenience store owners make little or sometimes no profit on gasoline (especially when the crack spread is close to zero or negative), and often rely on gas as a loss leader.

[Suriyawong]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

I agree with this. I don't think most people realize the gas station/convenience store owners make little or sometimes no profit on gasoline (especially when the crack spread is close to zero or negative), and often rely on gas as a loss leader.

Thats pretty crazy... its sad that our gas can be so expensive and the gas stations aren't even making any money on it. Pretty stupid really. Gas stations... no money from gas... ugh.

42% is pretty hefty tax though, thats worse than cigarettes I think. I'd be interested to see the US tax rates for that too... Google time...


Edit: Ok, easier than I thought. According to this site, each state collects a tax (which is shit, because Montana is one of the highest) in addition to a federal tax of 18.4 cents per gallon. So, in Montana, I'm paying .184+.2775=$.46185 on each gallon... which ends up being 14% or so with our current gas rates. Though these figures are from 2005... its entirely likely that it's higher now.

[beakmyn]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

The thing that bugged me the most is that these people think they were getting over on the oil companies when what they were really doing was fucking the owner of the station. They were stealing whether they want to justify it or not, and that's not cool. Someone should have told them that something was wrong, and hundreds didn't.

It makes me sad to see so little integrity.

There was a story last year (on Paul Harvey's radio thing) where the attendent left the pumps on overnight (or similar) and the next morning when he realized what he did and got back to the station and opened the door there was all the money for people who had gotten gas. Not a single cent missing!


@Thorn how can you raise them then kill them? Easy they taste better that way.

Personally I think slaughterhouses are neat. You'd be amazed how fast Bessy goes from walking to steak.

Egg farms are cool also. Did you know chickens can't see blue? So, if one gets loose they flip a switch and all the regulars lights turn off and blue lights turn on. You can walk right up the chicken and pick it up. It can't see. On the other hand they love red and if you don't control the amount of red in their environment they will literally peck each other to death, if allowed.

[streaker69]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

Egg farms are cool also. Did you know chickens can't see blue? So, if one gets loose they flip a switch and all the regulars lights turn off and blue lights turn on. You can walk right up the chicken and pick it up. It can't see. On the other hand they love red and if you don't control the amount of red in their environment they will literally peck each other to death, if allowed.

Am I the only one that thought of a really fun game of 'Red Light/Green Light' in a hen house after reading this?

Just randomly switch the lights from Red to Blue, watch them peck then turn them off.

[Thorn]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

Am I the only one that thought of a really fun game of 'Red Light/Green Light' in a hen house after reading this?

Just randomly switch the lights from Red to Blue, watch them peck then turn them off.

You just made the "PETA's Most Wanted" list with that post.

[Suriyawong]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

Eh? People for Eating Tasty Animals? Thats all I heard...

[TheCotMan]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

The thing that bugged me the most is that these people think they were getting over on the oil companies when what they were really doing was fucking the owner of the station. They were stealing whether they want to justify it or not, and that's not cool. Someone should have told them that something was wrong, and hundreds didn't.

It makes me sad to see so little integrity.

Ooo! Goodie. A chance to play the Devil's Advocate. ]:>

A common phrase in business is, "let the buyer beware."

In the U.S., if a store advertises, or misprints an offer to sell an item at a specific price, and they do not post a retraction at all customer entrances, they are supposed to honor their offer as printed. This does something to help combat, "bait and switch," scams run by some businesses. How would display of an offer to sell gasoline at some cost per liter at a pump be different? How is the ethical customer to *know* (without doubt) that this is not actually part of an advertising campaign? I've heard about advertising campaigns run by Radio, TV, and other businesses, where they pay to rollback the cost of gasoline at some station of choice for several hours or more-- usually, after the campaign is over, because I didn't listen to that station of read the promotional advertisements. How could the consumer know that the offer to sell them cheap gas might be any different?

A Definition for ethics:

that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

Based the above definition, Is labeling an opportunist as unethical, equivalent to calling them un-good, un-right, or maybe evil or wrong? Is that the right thing to do?

A statement that a behavior, where a consumer sees a price favorable to themself, chooses to not ask, "hey, is this price correct?" would be considered unethical, seems to me to push unfair burden on consumers. Do you or other really ask, "I have a two-for-one coupon, but that really sounds too good to be true. Is this a real promotion?" and do you ask these kind of questions every time that you see an offer that could be favorable to you? When you attend conventions and they hand out "free" swag, do you ask, "wait. Free? Are you really handing this out for free?" I'm guessing the answer is, "no." If an offer is made to supply you with something, even if it is free, you probably take it without question about a lack of mistakes in the offer. Maybe you consider the context of the offer? Maybe you consider, "has this kind of thing ever happened before as a genuine offer?" and then choose to ask accordingly.

We know that promotions exist in many capitalistic societies. How is it ethical to push the burden to verify offers that appear favorable are not mistakes, while at the same time, hold the buyer as the person to blame when they didn't research the product well enough, and/or consider the total cost of ownership with the product or service they may purchase? How "good" is it to label someone as unethical because they failed to consider the interests of a retailer? If a consumer is taken advantage of, they are called, "stupid," but if they appear to take advantage of certain offers by a supplier, they are called, "unethical."

A judgment is made. Opportunist are, "okay," just so long as they don't take advantage of other people, or maybe don't take *too* much advantage of people. When suppliers of goods face a natural disaster that cuts their supply chain, they are called, "unethical," and "price gougers," if they choose to raise their prices (such as was found after the government's weather machine created that hurricane that hurt New Orleans. ;-) However, they can expect to not get re-supplied until after the supply chain is restored. They have a good or service in limited supply, and no time-line for resupply. They will soon be unable to make money at work due to lack of inventory. Is it ethical to expect them to not consider their own future to pay for food, shelter and clothing, when they are unable to work due to lack of inventory? In such a case, do we label these business owners as unethical because they are unwilling to sacrifice their future to us?

Are people responsible enough to make their own decisions and mistakes, and be accountable for the results of these in their life? In order for a symmetry of fairness to exist, wouldn't we also expect to see, "let the seller beware," too?

[Voice of Emperor Palpatine:]Let the hatred flow. Gooooood! Goooooooooooood![/voice]

[theprez98]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

Morally and ethically, I agree with Grifter. It's just not cool to rip off the station. I think most people probably knew what they were doing was wrong. Most advertising campaigns for cheap gas (as Cot mentioned) actually use advertising. This station clearly did not.

Legally, I agree with Cot's "devil's advocate" position. The particular station is SOL.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

There was a story last year (on Paul Harvey's radio thing) where the attendent left the pumps on overnight (or similar) and the next morning when he realized what he did and got back to the station and opened the door there was all the money for people who had gotten gas. Not a single cent missing!

so Paul Harvey was telling a story about something that happened in 1956?

[streaker69]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

http://www.local6.com/news/15884416/detail.html

"One of the operatives (got) out and used a computerized device to bypass the pumps so they could pump an unlimited amount of gas into the vehicles," Casselberry police Lt. Dennis Stewart said.

Anyone have an idea as to what kind of device is being used? I'm wondering if it was a Speedpass/EasyPay station and they just happen to have stolen someone else's pass.

[Suriyawong]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

Hmm... its possible, that would be the easiest way. IF they actually figured out how to hack the thing, that's pretty sweet. Except the whole illegal and hitting the cop thing... but, if it wasn't illegal, it'd be interesting to find out what they did exactly. Too bad they're dicks.

[Second]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

Thats pretty crazy... its sad that our gas can be so expensive and the gas stations aren't even making any money on it. Pretty stupid really. Gas stations... no money from gas... ugh.

42% is pretty hefty tax though, thats worse than cigarettes I think. I'd be interested to see the US tax rates for that too... Google time...


Edit: Ok, easier than I thought. According to this site, each state collects a tax (which is shit, because Montana is one of the highest) in addition to a federal tax of 18.4 cents per gallon. So, in Montana, I'm paying .184+.2775=$.46185 on each gallon... which ends up being 14% or so with our current gas rates. Though these figures are from 2005... its entirely likely that it's higher now.

I'm pretty sure at least where I am (California), the stations have stickers on each pump telling you the tax breakdown on a gallon of gas. It separates it into federal, state, and I believe "total" is the third one. I haven't pumped recently so I don't have any numbers in front of me, but theoretically you can factor out the percentage of your total that is tax WHILE you're pumping!

[theprez98]

Re: Anyone hear about BP gas?

As has previously been mentioned, the GasBuddy websites are very useful for finding gas prices. The temperature map is also a nice overview of nationwide prices. They also have historic price charts, customizable comparison charts, etc. I find these sources to be much better (and more accurate) then the published surveys of 2000 gas stations that come out a week late and are therefore overcome by events.

This site has gas taxes by state. That's on top of the 18.4 cent per gallon federal tax. Some localities may have county or other local taxes.

Finally, I thought this was interesting: it breaks down a barrel of oil by ultimate destination.