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perl -e 'print pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)' -
Re: Epic Failure: Offtopic Posts
Let me put this another way- the FIRST question I ask people who ask me questions or for help is "have you tried it? Have you actually tried what you are asking?"
Think about it.Comment
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Re: Epic Failure: Offtopic Posts
I agree, HighWiz, I don't want to be a hacker. I went to Defcon, The Last Hope, and this years Shmoocon in the last 8 months since I decided I wanted to get into computer security. I've taken 8 classes since in on Network Security. I've gotten four certs (I know and agree that Certs are NOT an excuse for experience...but my company paid for them and my boss wanted them...ergo). I've spent hundreds of dollars on books and read them all. This is certainly not to impress, especially such an august crowd. I'm merely trying to make the point that I'm not coming in here and asking to be spoon fed baby food, I have been making an effort to learn all that I could on my own.
And not one single bit of it is an excuse or substitute for experience or hands on learning. I'm getting some of that through my job. I just got a house and one room is earmarked for a place for me to get some cheap computers and fuck around. The additional room opens up all kinds of options for things like small electronics, and nerf gun mods (I love my nerf guns ><).
I would be satisfied with being a competent security professional. We all want more, but life frequently doesn't care. I never plan on stopping learning, and I never plan on settling down. I don't care if you don't think I should be at Defcon, I'll be there this year anyways with my own damn soldering gun, and a netbook. I plan on getting on the most dangerous network in the world, and I also plan on getting pwned and reinstalling every night. Such is life. My comments were not directed towards "learn me, I'm a noob!" I was trying to impress that Defcon could serve a purpose as a complimentary source of learning, and sharing my first year's experience. Maybe it's not a good idea, maybe everyone should just go the first time and be stunned by the enormous size and weight of the people. Every other industry and group has it's hazing protocol, why not this one?
M.SecretaryComment
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Re: Epic Failure: Offtopic Posts
Melesse,
There is one of two possible solutions to satiate your mind:
1. Drink more.
2. Drink less.
Advice:
When referring to the size and weight of people, I hope it has to do with their celebrity status and the authority they carry. Otherwise you may find their size and weight sitting on your legs until your feet fall off.
Defcon is one of the VERY FEW places I have been where you can say "I'm new and I'm scared" and folks will not taunt you or trade you for a pack of cigs. Find a guy in a red goon shirt and he may pair you off with someone for a few hours that you can mimmick and learn from.
Read the forums here. There are thousands of posts going back millions of light years that are your same questions that another person before you thought of. And there are some darned good answers.
Highwiz wrote a FAQ about what to expect at Defcon. It rocks. Find it. Read it.
Worst case? Find a guy wearing a shirt from DC 9 or before, walk up to him, hand him a beer and say "Tell me about (insert DC# on shirt here)." Listen.
Or if you want the pants scared off of you, find a man wearing Hush Puppy loafers, white socks, and a windbreaker or a fanny pack and ask him about Defcon and hacking.
And soldering does not involve taking notes and watching 500 hours of video on it before trying it. This isn't rocket surgery, you get do-overs. Once you get the smell of resin core solder in your nostrils, there will be no stopping you. You'll want to rewire the doorbell, solder the dog's collar, and remove every component from that old TV, one piece at a time.
Just do it.
(Of course, him may be her/them/etc. I type in brevity.)Comment
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Re: Epic Failure: Offtopic Posts - Hopefully a final comment
<snipped for brevity>
Melesse said:
Bravo! That's a start!I would be satisfied with being a competent security professional. We all want more, but life frequently doesn't care. I never plan on stopping learning, and I never plan on settling down. I don't care if you don't think I should be at Defcon, I'll be there this year anyways with my own damn soldering gun, and a netbook.
Yup! And it's lots of fun too! :-)I plan on getting on the most dangerous network in the world, and I also plan on getting pwned and reinstalling every night. Such is life.
Well, there are people here that have been molding DefCon for quite a while. And I have always experienced DefCon as a complimentary source of learning. Finally, while I personally value suggestions from others, your suggestions did not come off as helping this specific purpose, especially in light of the "stickies" that were provided. Perhaps I misunderstood you. I tend to do that on ocassion. Regardless, come out and play and perhaps share with others what you are learning.My comments were not directed towards "learn me, I'm a noob!" I was trying to impress that Defcon could serve a purpose as a complimentary source of learning, and sharing my first year's experience.
This is where I would like to attempt to correct what I believe a misconception. I don't know what your experiences have been, but my experience of this community has been that they will challenge my thinking, challenge my assumptions, challenge my abilities. If I ask, I always find someone who will assist me, providing I have done some of the "work" myself, upfront. To me Melesse, that is not hazing. That is people demonstrating how much they really do care. YMMV.Maybe it's not a good idea, maybe everyone should just go the first time and be stunned by the enormous size and weight of the people. Every other industry and group has it's hazing protocol, why not this one?
M.
__________________
Epic Fail!
Hoping for Legendary Fail soon...
Moderator, I would like this particular thread in the Lurkers Guide forum closed.
Regards,
valkyrie
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sapere audeComment
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Re: Epic Failure: Offtopic Posts - Hopefully a final comment
You, Thorn and HighWiz are all Forum Leaders/Organizers for this contest/event forum. This gives *you* controls to do exactly that. No need to ask. Just do.
Forum Leaders/Organizers can set/unset stickies, open/closed threads, and split threads up.
To do this, look at the top of the page while vieing the thread you want to manage. On the far right, below "log out" you should see:
"Thread Tools", "Search this Thread", "Rate Thread" , "Display Modes"
Click on thread tools, and choose to do what you want with this thread.
See? Self service! Empowering the people! (Really? An excuse to be lazy, so I don't have to do the work. ;-)
You feel that power? Is it corrupting you? <voice of palpatine> Let it flow... Goood. *gooooood*</voice>Comment
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Re: Epic Failure: Offtopic Posts
Why are we trying to close this thread?
I re-opened it, because I see no need for it to be closed.
Where/what is the reasoning behind it?
This thread is for all the Off-topic posts in this sub-forum. While the posts may be off-topic to DefCon 101 some of them still have valid points that should be discussed.
I have no problem with a thread being closed, but I do have a problem with it being closed without a reason.And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts, And I looked and behold: a pale horse. And his name, that sat on him, was Death. And Hell followed with him.Comment
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Re: Epic Failure: Offtopic Posts
I SMELL DISSENT IN THE RANKS!!!!
A coup is imminent!!!perl -e 'print pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'Comment
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Re: Epic Failure: Offtopic Posts
Or is it the fragrance emanating from your socks as you have your feet all propped up on your coffee table? Hrmmmm?
You wish... :-D
Regards,
valkyrie
__________________________________________________ _____
sapere audeComment
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Re: Epic Failure: Offtopic Posts
Beware of my weight!
Soldering is most definitely something learned by doing. It's like trying to explain the taste of salt to someone who has never had it trying to learn to solder from videos.
BURN PARTS. It happens. Rinse and repeat. That's how you learn.
I second, third, etc., all of the posts here (recently ASTs) about asking people- the problem isn't that people who are n00bs ask, it is HOW they ask and WHAT they ask.
This group is VERY forgiving to those making a genuine effort.Comment
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Re: Epic Failure: Offtopic Posts
Going kind of back to Melesse's comments about looking foolish, and being intimidated, and also touching on and sort of reitterating many comments that followed.
Yes, if you try something new, chances are you will fail, at least in some manner, at first. However, will you look foolish? Will you embarrass yourself? Only if you don't learn from your mistakes, which is in the end, how any of us learn anything. And quite to the contrary, making a mistake, and learning from it, in the presence of those "much much more skilled than you", no less, can have quite the opposite effect.
If you ask something of others who are more skilled than yourself at a particular discipline, will they see you as more of a noob? Will they ridicule you? Maybe. But who gives a fuck what they think, and after all, you might just have your curiosity satisfied with an answer that clears up a lot. You'll never know unless you ask.
Melesse, you mentioned in another thread that you didn't expect anyone to recognize you at this coming con. And the same is probably true of myself, granted. However, will that not change exponentially if fear, intimidation (or pure antisocial asininity in my case) are all put aside? I was in that same boat my first con, I didn't talk to anyone. Hell, it wasn't until my 4th that I actually met someone I'd call a friend. And not until this last one I shared alcohol with total strangers. My point is that whatever the hurdles, be it intimidation, social anxiety, whatever it may be, it'll probably feel alot better, and open many new doors you never even saw before to just cross that bridge.
Just take me for example, I got interested in lockpicking last con. This time last year I could barely pick my nose correctly and now I'd call myself moderately good at opening locks. Did I fuck up at first? You don't know the half of it. Did I learn from many sources? Shit, youtube taught me a lot of basics and got me moving in the right direction. Did I end up asking someone more experienced questions that might have seemed stupid? Many of them in fact. And in the end, I have a new skill.
And don't take any of the comments that followed your initial post as a deterrent, they do seem a little harsh at first read, but instead, seek those who posted them out and buy em a drink, and ask a question or two. Especially Valkyrie, because as cool as having the title of monkey butler may be... Having an army of em is just freaking awesome. But I digress, I'm rambling."You have cubed asscheeks?"... "Do you not?"Comment
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Re: Announcement: Speaker Line up for DC 101
I was under the understanding there would be no Wireless Village this year. If there is, we don't currently have plans to assign them a skybox. Can the POC please contact me offline? Thanks!
-Russ
PS - Thanks to all working on this project, btw. It's awesome!Last edited by russ; February 27, 2009, 08:48.Comment
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