Intro to Hacking - Discussions

[HighWiz]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

I've tried to combine all of the ideas for tracks in this thread for easier viewing and discussion.

http://defcon.stotan.org/brainwash/ideas.php

[valkyrie]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Well I wouldn't have much to offer with regards presenting or helping out (aside from the fact that I live an ocean away), as a general "noob" in most ares, some of the topics I think fellow noobs would like a quick into or taste of would be;

Everything Wireless
Crypyo
Programming (be it anything from C++ to Python, or even the basics of program languages and the essentials (batch processes, syntaxes, etc))
Hardware hacking (I think if Kingpin even had 10 minutes to spare, newbies would go just to see him)
Networks (TCP/IP)
Hacking and the Law (maybe one of the guys from the EFF?)

Don't shoot me down for this, I'm sure there's ALOT more could be done, but they're a few things I'm sure alot of newcomers to hacking would like to hear about before they decide on what they'll be paying special attention to during the main event.

Shoot you down? The powers that be bless you a hundred times over! As you are a self-described noob, the intent of this speed forum is supposed to be all about giving new folks a base to work from so I for one welcome your suggestions. Thank you. It sounds as if we are pretty much spot on with topics.


Regards,

valkyrie
__________________________________________________ ____________________
sapere aude

[artoir]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

Well I wouldn't have much to offer with regards presenting or helping out (aside from the fact that I live an ocean away), as a general "noob" in most ares, some of the topics I think fellow noobs would like a quick into or taste of would be;

Everything Wireless
Crypyo
Programming (be it anything from C++ to Python, or even the basics of program languages and the essentials (batch processes, syntaxes, etc))
Hardware hacking (I think if Kingpin even had 10 minutes to spare, newbies would go just to see him)
Networks (TCP/IP)
Hacking and the Law (maybe one of the guys from the EFF?)

Don't shoot me down for this, I'm sure there's ALOT more could be done, but they're a few things I'm sure alot of newcomers to hacking would like to hear about before they decide on what they'll be paying special attention to during the main event.

[valkyrie]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

i would bet that you'd get a lot of takers on an "Intro To Crypto" workshop. i know that there are so many standards out there that even i do not feel fully versed a lot of the time. what is considered outdated, what is not... which types of crypto are symettrical versus which use key pairs, why 128-bit SSL is not the same "strength" as 128-bit PGP, etc etc etc.

I am fully alright with admitting that when i was hanging around Black Hat a couple years ago I sat in on Rodney's Crypto workshop and it was one of the best uses of my time... it really cleared up three or four things for me which i did not fully understand, as far as terminology or certain algorithms are concerned.

You simply don't learn about crypto overall in one simple package. It's all either spend your life reading a mailing list or grab a 400+ page book from a library. I bet people would love to see a workshop where you go over all the basics so people know what all the algorithms mean, sorted into broad categories, then have a session where people make their own SSH tunnel into something and also setup GPG for their favorite email client.

DO, it actually seems right to do an overview of things; kind of like dangling a carrot, so folks who are truly interested in a topic get a taste and want more of it. If you all wish to put me up in the Village this year, I would be more than willing to go more in-depth on the crypto topics, (including the Enigmas) and I am sure there those here more versed than I am on particulars of that topic. Perhaps they could decide to do some BoF's on crypto or just about anything geeky and hacky.

Let's choose those topics that will give people a maximum overview and then provide them with more in-depth discussion, discovery, ranting, etc, if that floats their boat.

good idea? bad idea?

Regards,

valkyrie
__________________________________________________ __________________
sapere aude

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

i would bet that you'd get a lot of takers on an "Intro To Crypto" workshop. i know that there are so many standards out there that even i do not feel fully versed a lot of the time. what is considered outdated, what is not... which types of crypto are symettrical versus which use key pairs, why 128-bit SSL is not the same "strength" as 128-bit PGP, etc etc etc.

I am fully alright with admitting that when i was hanging around Black Hat a couple years ago I sat in on Rodney's Crypto workshop and it was one of the best uses of my time... it really cleared up three or four things for me which i did not fully understand, as far as terminology or certain algorithms are concerned.

You simply don't learn about crypto overall in one simple package. It's all either spend your life reading a mailing list or grab a 400+ page book from a library. I bet people would love to see a workshop where you go over all the basics so people know what all the algorithms mean, sorted into broad categories, then have a session where people make their own SSH tunnel into something and also setup GPG for their favorite email client.

[Thorn]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

How bout 101 level talks? Tabling the "Social introduction" to DefCon for a moment, and thinking more about Tech based talks to give "New Hackers" or "Would be Hackers" a primer or jumping off point. What kind of things would be good to cover?

I don't know about format, whether quick talks or longer discussions would be better, so it's something to be discussed. But throwing out ideas for both types is never a bad thing, they can be shrunken down/expanded depending on what's ultimately decided.

For an example, maybe Thorn and Renderman doing a primer/something on wireless. Valkyrie talking about Crypto in an intro to code breaking or something along those lines?

I'm sure some of this information is covered in the villages or can be found there. However, we/you people can be intimidating to a "Newbie" even if you're not trying to be. So a Newbie Track dealing specifically with those topics can be helpful in this format.

Let me know what you all think, whether that's the direction we want to go or rip down my ideas, it's all good...

I kinda like that idea. Sort of firehose primer on various topics for those who want to know a little about alot.

Might also help those of us who are deep into one field, but friggin clueless in others get a handle on other topics.

I could see it being about 2 hours with 6-8 presenters on a variety of topics giving a 'what the hell is this all about' talk (again, going back to the university orientation example, this would be the pre-admittance 'we want you to join our department' type of talk to try and get some of the newbies into our fields)

I don't know about you guys but I do notice that we tend to cluster around our various fields more than we should. I'm guilty of it, though not for lack of opportunity to try new things though. I think the goal should be to present all the possibilities that Defcon offers to help people become real polymats.

Thoughts?

Primers could be fun.

I'd suggest 4 per hour, at ~10 minutes each. That leaves a couple of minutes changeover time between each, and time for a stretch/bathroom break.

[renderman]

Re: Newbie Track: surviving defcon and other related items

How bout 101 level talks? Tabling the "Social introduction" to DefCon for a moment, and thinking more about Tech based talks to give "New Hackers" or "Would be Hackers" a primer or jumping off point. What kind of things would be good to cover?

I don't know about format, whether quick talks or longer discussions would be better, so it's something to be discussed. But throwing out ideas for both types is never a bad thing, they can be shrunken down/expanded depending on what's ultimately decided.

For an example, maybe Thorn and Renderman doing a primer/something on wireless. Valkyrie talking about Crypto in an intro to code breaking or something along those lines?

I'm sure some of this information is covered in the villages or can be found there. However, we/you people can be intimidating to a "Newbie" even if you're not trying to be. So a Newbie Track dealing specifically with those topics can be helpful in this format.

Let me know what you all think, whether that's the direction we want to go or rip down my ideas, it's all good...

I kinda like that idea. Sort of firehose primer on various topics for those who want to know a little about alot.

Might also help those of us who are deep into one field, but friggin clueless in others get a handle on other topics.

I could see it being about 2 hours with 6-8 presenters on a variety of topics giving a 'what the hell is this all about' talk (again, going back to the university orientation example, this would be the pre-admittance 'we want you to join our department' type of talk to try and get some of the newbies into our fields)

I don't know about you guys but I do notice that we tend to cluster around our various fields more than we should. I'm guilty of it, though not for lack of opportunity to try new things though. I think the goal should be to present all the possibilities that Defcon offers to help people become real polymats.

Thoughts?

[HighWiz]

How bout 101 level talks? Tabling the "Social introduction" to DefCon for a moment, and thinking more about Tech based talks to give "New Hackers" or "Would be Hackers" a primer or jumping off point. What kind of things would be good to cover?

I don't know about format, whether quick talks or longer discussions would be better, so it's something to be discussed. But throwing out ideas for both types is never a bad thing, they can be shrunken down/expanded depending on what's ultimately decided.

For an example, maybe Thorn and Renderman doing a primer/something on wireless. Valkyrie talking about Crypto in an intro to code breaking or something along those lines?

I'm sure some of this information is covered in the villages or can be found there. However, we/you people can be intimidating to a "Newbie" even if you're not trying to be. So a Newbie Track dealing specifically with those topics can be helpful in this format.

Let me know what you all think, whether that's the direction we want to go or rip down my ideas, it's all good...