Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Traveling with Firearms

As part of my "Flying with Firearms" research, i've gone through all of the web sites of US-based air carriers and analyzed how their worded policies conform or differ from the basic federal standard. Many of our domestic airlines have additional rules and restrictions (which in my opinion are geared towards simply slamming you with unexpected extra fees)

If you want a simple, straightforward summary of how the various air carriers stack up, check out my Airline Report Card Page. I took all the facts that i could discover and combined them with any comments of travelers (and even things stated by the companies themselves) in order to come up with a simple letter grade for all fifteen airlines.

Those attending LayerOne will have the opportunity to see this whole talk, along with any new comments and stories that i have picked up between now and then. How does your preferred carrier stack up?

[xor]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

So is the case(manufacturer) that pistol came in ok to travel with in my locked soft suitcase?

xor

Never mind found my answer on your handy dandy web page. :-) The answer is yes for my airline.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

So is the case(manufacturer) that pistol came in ok to travel with in my locked soft suitcase?

it may be allowed on some airlines, but it's a royally awful idea and opens you up to huge fucking headaches, not to mention increased risk of gun theft.

there is more the answer to this than meets the eye (and even more than is properly conveyed on my web site at the moment, i confess)

let's break it down...

1. manufacturer gun cases are often hard plastic.

2. on occasion they have small lock built-in (and it's always a super shitty combo dial or wafer lock in these rare instances) but more typically they can simply accept a padlock via some little loops of plastic. almost no manufacturer gun case is secure in the least in my opinion. the reasons are twofold...

* there exists almost no way to properly lock a small pistol case... either the little "loops" are too small to accommodate a heavy padlock or, more commonly, they can be snapped or cut right off

* the cases themselves are too flimsy to withstand rough treatment and too small to avoid being smuggled out of an airport baggage area in someone's clothing or within the small bags that most TSA screeners and luggage throwers are permitted to carry into work.

3. it is possible to use a small Pelican case or other similar hard case if you want to put better locks on something and make it resistant to opening, but i still don't trust people to not simply take the case away totally if they can get into an item of luggage.

now to address what i believe is your specific plan...

4. putting a gun inside of large luggage that is hard-sided and properly locked with a high-security padlock is the best plan. not only do you know the gun will be there when you arrive at your destination, you know the rest of your stuff hasn't been fucked with.

and now the real critical point...

5. if you are using a small gun case just to help secure and protect the firearm within your larger luggage item, i strongly recommend making certain that this small gun case cannot be locked in any way.

why is that? this avoids problems if you get a bone-headed airline agent or TSA person hassling you during check-in. on occasion, airlines will attempt (wrongly) to insist that people need to lock up only the firearm and not their main luggage item. once in a while, staff will go so far as to tell a passenger to remove their luggage's outer lock and secure it simply on the inner case (like a small, manufacturer's gun case) inside of what is now an unlocked bag.

fuck that. the reason i only fly with my handguns in soft-sided pistol cases or in totally non-lockable pistol cases is to ensure that no dirtbag in a uniform can ever attempt to order me to lock just the firearm.

so be mindful of that. if your small gun case has little padlock loops, it's best to cut them off. and arrive at the airport with that inner case not locked up at all. make sure your outer case (the luggage itself) is reliable and secure and lock it up tight... that's the best way, in my opinion.

i would strongly recommend that you reconsider the plan you expressed above. get proper luggage and lock the outer case only.

remember... the bulk of firearm thefts during air travel happen to guns in small pistol-sized cases. not necessarily because these cases are broken into (even though that surely happens a lot for the reasons i stated above) but simply because the cases are totally obvious and easy to steal in and of themselves.

[xor]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

I'm looking for a recommendation on a travel case for my 1911. I guess Pelican is the way to go but which one?

xor

Ideally I would like to get a case/safe/bag with a cable that I could stick inside and attach to my suit case frame. This would allow for inspection as well as make it difficult to separate the two items. Of course I live in possibly the worse city/airport for luggage theft(Philadelphia).

1400 series looks reasonable unless folks advise otherwise.

[noid]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

I have a 1490 for my GSG-5PK and its pretty damn slick. Would definitely be good for a 1911 and accouterments. As with all my cases I go with the unofficial DEFCON supplier Cases 4 Less. They should give us a discount with the amount of Pelican cases DT buys.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

could stick inside and attach to my suit case frame.

i find your approach innovative and think it may be just about the only way i'd trust someone with a "smaller" gun case inside of another suitcase. would i trust it for all my stuff? not really... because (a) it's still allowing people to fuck around inside your luggage and not protecting the rest of your belongings and (b) you leave yourself open to some douchebag saying that the cable lock "isn't necessary" because it's not securing the smaller case "shut".

I live in possibly the worse city/airport for luggage theft(Philadelphia).

the worst airport in the nation for gun thefts is LAX, followed closely by ORD, SEA, and MIA, PHL and EWR are among the worst up in our region, however... that is correct.

for my 1911

i compliment your excellent taste in firearms, sir.

Cases 4 Less

indeed. Zac mentioned them in my LayerOne talk and ever since then i refer people there, too. best pricing i've ever come across.

[xor]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

I have a 1490 for my GSG-5PK and its pretty damn slick. Would definitely be good for a 1911 and accouterments. As with all my cases I go with the unofficial DEFCON supplier Cases 4 Less. They should give us a discount with the amount of Pelican cases DT buys.

So keys or TSA padlocks....? The one you recommended I noticed was keyed.

xor

[noid]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

Mine is keyed, but is also capable of being sealed with padlocks. Get some of the TSA ones that Deviant recommended a while back.

Speaking of which, I was down at Cabelas today and picked up a Secure It case like CHS had at LayerOne. They were selling them for 20 bucks.

[xor]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

Mine is keyed, but is also capable of being sealed with padlocks. Get some of the TSA ones that Deviant recommended a while back.

Speaking of which, I was down at Cabelas today and picked up a Secure It case like CHS had at LayerOne. They were selling them for 20 bucks.

I want to put my 1911, ammo, & my DSLR inside the case and am also thinking about shipping the case & contents out to the Riv rather than deal with the airlines. The case inside my luggage will put me over weight anyway, so I'm going to get charged either way. I would rather deal with Fed-ex and get insurance then the airline and associated hassle and not. The only problem is how do I ship out on Sunday. I wonder if the business office is open or if the hotel will ship it out for me the following day.

The only thing I'm concerned about is the security at the Riv's business office; which didn't seem all the great last time I was there. It is a Casino so cameras every where. But a large baseball cap could easily disguise a face.

I'm going to get more information from the Riv on Monday and will post what I find out. Here is what I've been able to find so far.

xor

http://www.rivierahotel.com/_files/p...price_list.pdf

Fed-ex:

Firearms

1. FedEx Express will transport and deliver firearms as defined by the United States Gun Control Act of 1968, between areas served in the U.S., but only between:

1. Licensed importers; licensed manufacturers; licensed dealers; licensed collectors; law enforcement agencies of the U.S. or any department or agency thereof; and law enforcement agencies of any state or any department, agency or political subdivisions thereof; or

2. Where not prohibited by local, state and federal law, from individuals to licensed importers, licensed manufacturers or licensed dealers (and return of same).

2. If your shipment contains firearms, select the Direct Signature Required or Adult Signature Required Delivery Signature Option, depending on the requirements of your shipment. See the Delivery Signature Options section for details. Firearms shipments are not eligible for signature release or indirect delivery.

3. Firearms must be shipped via FedEx Priority Overnight service. FedEx Express cannot ship or deliver firearms C.O.D. Firearms shipments cannot be placed in a FedEx Express Drop Box.

4. Upon presenting the package for shipment, the person tendering the shipment to FedEx Express is required to notify FedEx Express that the package contains a firearm. The outside of the package must not be marked, labeled or otherwise identify that the package contains a firearm.

5. The shipper and recipient must be of legal age as identified by applicable law.

6. The shipper and recipient are required to comply with all applicable government regulations and laws, including those pertaining to labeling. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives can provide assistance.

7. FedEx Express will transport ammunition when packed and labeled in compliance with local, state and federal law, and the Dangerous Goods section of this Service Guide. Ammunition is an explosive and must be shipped separately as dangerous goods. You agree not to ship loaded firearms or firearms with ammunition in the same package.

[xor]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

Not looking to start a political discussion but I'm finally starting to understand why people get so insane about 2nd amendment stuff. What a cluster fuck of rules, counter rules, and regulations. You need a law degree to figure this stuff out. The companies themselves I don't think are all the sure either.

xor

[xor]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

Looks like UPS will take them person to person.

http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/res...h_phr=firearms

xor

[noid]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

Not looking to start a political discussion but I'm finally starting to understand why people get so insane about 2nd amendment stuff. What a cluster fuck of rules, counter rules, and regulations. You need a law degree to figure this stuff out. The companies themselves I don't think are all the sure either.

xor

Yup and frequently the agents of enforcement know even less..

[Melesse]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

Out of curiousity, what are the minimum measurements you would consider for a box shipping a pistol with you on an airline? Briefcase sized? Cooler sized?

M.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

Out of curiousity, what are the minimum measurements you would consider for a box shipping a pistol with you on an airline? Briefcase sized? Cooler sized?

heh, you know... no one has ever asked me so specifically before.

i would say that all matters are somewhat relative, but that it basically comes down to "what size container would you assume that even a well-thought-out thief could not smuggle out of the work area past his supervisor(s)?

most luggage item thieves take items from bags and stick them in a bag of some sort to get out of their work area. employee gym bags, backpacks, etc... these are all common sights in baggage handling zones. they are said to hold their lunches, spare clothes, etc.

i would say that if something can't be easily stuck inside of a backpack it's a safe bet that a person wouldn't try to steal it out of the airport. "cooler" sized is surely a win. "briefcase" sized may not be perfect, but it's surely better than the "typical" pistol case.

and, while security through obscurity is by no means a proper route of achieving your protection, it can certainly help to augment it as one layer. i know people who will use an ugly, stained, dirtbag looking duffel acquired at a thrift store or homeless shelter shop just for the purpose of checking their hard case luggage. guns in a small, unlocked case... this case inside of nice, heavy, locked hard luggage... hard luggage placed at the last minute inside of dirtbag hobo luggage.

unscrupulous baggage handlers often have only minutes (or maybe a half hour max) to decide what they want to attempt to steal... which bags they target have a lot to do with (a) how sturdy and secure they look and (b) how lucrative they look. often, one column can help to outweigh the other. i opt for the super-heavy duty luggage and the "fuck off" padlocks... it's clear that something of value is in there, but no one could ever get at it. some people will use less than ideal sized luggage (like smaller gun cases) but put them within "not worth stealing" type of outer bags. it's all relative.

[xor]

Re: Gun Cases (split from general interest thread)

Just ordered my 1490 from Cases4Less.

xor

Ps Great store!!! I know now where I'm getting my next Leatherman tool from. Use to paying almost double what they charge.