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  • Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

    With the recent events in the news, how would people feel about airplane bathroom cameras?

    First, no one has suggested it yet; just me, so don't search.

    Second, I'm a guy, and privacy or lack there of, in a space that I can barely fit it, doesn't bother me all that much.

    Third, I'm going to ask for a certain amount of maturity when you consider this subject. We all have bodies, we all know what they look like, we all have to use the bathroom, and know from birth what is involved in performing those acts.

    Fourth, consider the grainy nature of most security cameras; are they really going to be able to see all that much?

    If there were security cameras in the bathroom, this wouldn't have gotten as far as it did. So how do folks feel about that. I personally wouldn't care, given what I've stated above, especially on international flights. While this would hurt the mile high club, I think that is one experience that I can give up in order to ensure better security.

    xor
    Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

  • #2
    Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

    Why not just strip everyone naked and lock them in their seats? Frankly, the newest rules are just stupid, and aren't going to ensure safety, anymore than the older rules do. All these will do is further kill air travel.

    Al Queda changes the music, and the TSA dances. TSA higher-ups ought figure that out.
    Thorn
    "If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning." - Catherine Aird

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    • #3
      Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

      I'm all for it as long as the camera feed can be surreptitiously routed to the videos screens in the passenger cabin.
      A third party security audit is the IT equivalent of a colonoscopy. It's long, intrusive, very uncomfortable, and when it's done, you'll have seen things you really didn't want to see, and you'll never forget that you've had one.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

        That was too harsh. I edited it.

        Stupid idea. I am not willing to give up any more freedoms to supposedly protect me. And I think the freedom to rub one out on a cross country flight is sacrosanct.
        perl -e 'print pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10)'

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        • #5
          Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

          my primary feeling is perfectly in parallel to Romer's... giving up even more freedoms in the face of a great number of liberties crushed with little to zero return on that investment is just a bad deal to me.


          my biggest question is practical... how would it be implemented? by that i mean, who is in charge of monitoring the feeds? the flight attendants? (who have no "super private" area of their own on the plane, or it's an area that is routinely left unattended) and if so, when do they do it? they're supposed to be working the flight, although that of course has gone south more and more over the years. is it to be the pilots' duty to check out the feed? again, we have a matter of people whose job it is to do something else already. are we hiring more TSA monkeys to monitor this remotely? then you're dealing with broadcast and all kinda other shit.

          i could almost see as a partially practical solution the following... still image cameras only, viewable in the pilot's cabin... and only allowed to be accessed for a quick snapshot under specific circumstances... like an individual being in there for 5 minutes or more, with other factors that raise suspicions of the flight crew, like odd noises or smells or something. of course, that could just as easily describe my situation in the bathroom of an airplane when the in-flight meal is particularly shitty. so god knows how you'd actually make this implementable.

          and i haven't even remotely touched on the issue of data storage. without it you have some more privacy protection, but utterly no evidence if you're trying to charge someone with building a bomb or even justify the devices' existence. with data storage, however, comes all the fucking leaks and tabloid nonsense that will always happen with cameras.


          my background concern is a little blue... these cameras will, of course, catch far more people just trying to have a little fun on flights than they could ever hope to catch threats. people (both guys and gals) let off pent up sexual steam in airplane bathrooms. people (guys and gals together) get it on it airplane bathrooms. people party with controlled substances in bathrooms (smoking has gotten a lot harder, but not impossible, and while the 80s are over, coke still makes its way up to 30,000 feet with some regularity. i knew of one girl who took mushrooms on a really long flight, but i couldn't tell you what on earth would make someone think that is a good idea)

          Flight attendants, on their ever-growing power trip, will take it upon themselves to hassle all of the people who participate in such activities, in spite of the fact that they're not hurting anyone or making the flight unsafe. i have joined the mile high club on a few rather long flights and it most assuredly kept things entertaining (it even ended a particularly bad argument one time, thank god for that... since we still had about 5 hrs to go sitting next to one another) and heartily encourage all others to do the same... but good luck with that if the neckerchief-wearing nazis start getting personal peepshow feeds up in the friendly skies.
          "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
          - Trent Reznor

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          • #6
            Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

            Interesting topic, but I think it would never happen.

            It's a risk vs. reward thing. How many people's privacy will you have to violate in order to prevent no one from making bombs in the bathroom? How often are these bathrooms being used for illicit activity? If you put cameras there, it will surely be in the news and it won't be used for illegal purposes again. All you will do is take pictures of people going to the bathroom.

            Socially it's just not going to happen. We find the bathroom as a sacred place. People are often prudish about their bodily functions. It's a taboo topic, and that part of one's privacy will probably be protected above our rights to carry weapons and have free speech.

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            • #7
              Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

              Originally posted by heisenbug View Post
              Interesting topic, but I think it would never happen.

              ...

              Socially it's just not going to happen. We find the bathroom as a sacred place. People are often prudish about their bodily functions. It's a taboo topic, and that part of one's privacy will probably be protected above our rights to carry weapons and have free speech.
              Please don't say that. I have seen so many rights taken away that I would have said "can't happen" 20 years ago, that I'm very clear that Mr Orwell's imagination didn't take him far enough. Bathrooms as sacred places? Seriously? Disregarding the poor choice of words, I can tell you right now that there are PLENTY of places with cameras already in the bathrooms. Oh, yes there are.

              I spent too many years in the business. There are all sorts of cameras, from the "you're meant to see this" type to the "you have no idea something can be that small" ones. High end shopping? Please. I know they don't trust their customers, and I'm pretty sure they don't trust the employees either. Vegas? Better be careful when you're on the casino floor about what you do in those bathrooms (although with the recession, probably most of them are either turned off, or not manned at all).

              The important thing that people should take away from what happened on that flight is that whenever there's an event, it becomes a game changer. Before 9/11, we were encouraged to just cooperate with hijackers so that no one would get hurt, and we could all get on with our lives. When that quit working, passengers started fighting back. People even got burned subduing this guy.

              You want to be safe? Build a room, line it with cotton batting, and hire someone to spoon feed you baby food for the rest of your life. Just quit trying to protect ME. I don't want it.

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              • #8
                Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

                Well I guess there is a lot more going on in airplane bathrooms than I thought humanly possible. :-) Clearly I've lived a sheltered life. I guess technology isn't the answer to everything. What will most likely happen is that you will get a friendly knock on the door if you are in there longer than 5 minutes. With a friendly & caring <rolls eyes>, "are you OK" through the door. After 10 minutes they will most likely just crack open the door and peer in; again in a friendly and caring manner. I see the airlines assigning both sexes of attendants on flights. This way once the sex of the person in the bathroom is identified , on the first call, they can assign a man or woman to crack open the door on the second.

                Personally I would rather have a camera, and not be interrupted by a friendly caring human.Thus having to explain what I'm doing in there, and having everyone in the front rows hear it. Then after I'm done, having to walk past all those people. :-)

                xor

                Roamer please don't hold back.

                Actually I don't think being on THEIR airplane gives you rights to privacy. Like being on someone else's network. Though I'm most likely wrong about this.
                Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

                  Originally posted by heisenbug View Post
                  We find the bathroom as a sacred place. People are often prudish about their bodily functions. It's a taboo topic, and that part of one's privacy will probably be protected above our rights to carry weapons and have free speech.
                  Why....? I understand people don't want to see it(well at least not me), but where is it written. Keep in mind, only Americans are offended by the human body, other cultures have more naturalistic views about it.

                  xor
                  Last edited by xor; December 27, 2009, 12:11.
                  Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

                    Originally posted by xor View Post
                    With the recent events in the news, how would people feel about airplane bathroom cameras?

                    First, no one has suggested it yet; just me, so don't search.
                    Not here, but it has been suggested. You are not Mr. Gee this has not been thought of before.

                    Originally posted by xor View Post
                    Second, I'm a guy, and privacy or lack there of, in a space that I can barely fit it, doesn't bother me all that much.
                    So, you are actually saying we really don't wish to see your hairy butt and back...

                    Originally posted by xor View Post
                    Third, I'm going to ask for a certain amount of maturity when you consider this subject. We all have bodies, we all know what they look like, we all have to use the bathroom, and know from birth what is involved in performing those acts.
                    At birth I thought that my toes were the bomb, but your mileage may vary...

                    Originally posted by xor View Post
                    Fourth, consider the grainy nature of most security cameras; are they really going to be able to see all that much?
                    They can reveal so much that...oh crap, never mind.

                    Originally posted by xor View Post
                    If there were security cameras in the bathroom, this wouldn't have gotten as far as it did. So how do folks feel about that. I personally wouldn't care, given what I've stated above, especially on international flights. While this would hurt the mile high club, I think that is one experience that I can give up in order to ensure better security.

                    xor
                    Keep telling yourself that lie. It will help you sleep at night.

                    Security theater, in perpetuity.

                    Xor, you can fly, I will drive. Your idea sucks. In perpetuity.

                    The best way for us to be safe when flying is for people to fly naked and standing up. Oh, and no carry ons. Xor, while I am proud of my physicality you may wish to rethink this. Cameras in the loo? While you may have no issues with your swang, my nether regions are sacrosanct from prying eyes.

                    What a droob.

                    __________________________________________________ ___________
                    sapere aude

                    Valkyrie

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                    • #11
                      Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

                      Originally posted by valkyrie View Post
                      While you may have no issues with your swang, my nether regions are sacrosanct from prying eyes.
                      I have to agree with valkyrie on this one.

                      I can see the tshirt slogan already - "Who needs voyeurism sites when you can work for the TSA"
                      "Why is it drug addicts and computer afficionados are both called users? " - Clifford Stoll

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                      • #12
                        Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

                        Originally posted by valkyrie View Post
                        What a droob.
                        http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_561503936/droob.html

                        Attack the idea, not the person; it's unbecoming.

                        xor
                        Just because you can doesn't mean you should. This applies to making babies, hacking, and youtube videos.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

                          Originally posted by xor View Post
                          http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_561503936/droob.html

                          Attack the idea, not the person; it's unbecoming.

                          xor
                          would have been nice had you said that when I was attacked. No worries.

                          I attacked the idea, not the person. Get over your personal feelings about things.

                          Regards,

                          valkyrie
                          ________________________________________
                          sapere aude

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                          • #14
                            Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

                            Nonsense, not being able to access the overhead bin for the last hour of flight will surely keep us as safe as we can be!

                            On the subject of the thread, if I found a camera in the bathroom, I'd just start performing. I'd have myself a wack or something. Got to give the poor dumb bastards watching something to tell stories about.

                            I just heard this, and am not looking forward to it. I hear we're now supposed to be at the airport three hours early due to new and unannounced restrictions and security measures. Given that I fly at least once a month for work, looks like a couple more hours of comp time for me!

                            Mel
                            Secretary

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                            • #15
                              Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

                              Still waiting for more details to come in about specifics before drawing any firm conclusions.

                              That said, the reaction has been exactly what the bad guys could have hoped for. Should the new regs about being confined to your seat for the last hour with no personal items, electronics, or bathroom access become permanent, the effect of the public deciding that it's finally not worth the hassle will be the final nail for the airlines. When you consider the integration of airlines with commerce, the economy gets really fucked.

                              The knee-jerk reaction to even consider cameras is foolish anyways. You would need a dedicated person to watch the camera at all times. If that person is on board, that means more weight for the airlines which increases costs (unlikely to happen), or remotely which means someones going to have the TSA title of poop inspector. Due to various laws you can be sure that the lawyers will demand that the cameras existence be disclosed and that will never work for the airlines since they will get all the flack and people screwing with them (lipstick on the lens, towels, etc).

                              Should a bad guy need privacy to assemble something, what about just buying up the whole row of seats and 'sleeping' under a blanket? There is no easy answer. EDIT - Apparently that's what happened, so no blankets now?

                              Repeat after me: "I refuse to be terrorized"

                              EDIT - One more thought; how many people are going to choose to drive instead of fly and end up in traffic accidents instead? Air travel is still one of the safest forms of travel.
                              Last edited by renderman; December 27, 2009, 18:31. Reason: new details, new thought
                              Never drink anything larger than your head!





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