Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

[valkyrie]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Still waiting for more details to come in about specifics before drawing any firm conclusions

Repeat after me: "I refuse to be terrorized"

- One more thought; how many people are going to choose to drive instead of fly and end up in traffic accidents instead? Air travel is still one of the safest forms of travel.

One of the reasons I love you is because you are wise. I will choose to hitch hick or drive. Why? I have more control over the circumstances. I can get where I want to go more quickly and don't have to show creds to get there. God bless America and the truckers thereby. And yes, I carry a gun.

[xor]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Oh bloody hell, should have listened to Cotman

xor

[Chris]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Repeat after me: "I refuse to be terrorized"

Render is uber wise on this. We can only be terrorized if we allow ourselves to be afraid. I am 100% not afraid of a terrorist on my plane. Do I recognize that it's a possibility (however remote)? Yes of course. But I also recognize that I could be in a car accident on the way to the grocery store less than a mile from my house. Terrorists could target that same grocery store, primarily because there are no cameras in the bathrooms and you are allowed to walk around during your last hour there. Why the fuck do we continue to allow ourselves to be scared shitless.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to die, but retarded regulations that provide no real security but make idiots feel warm and fuzzy ("If it took me three hours to get through security then they MUST be keeping me safe") are counterproductive and just plain stupid. Stop living in fear.

I am always amazed at people that I like and respect (this isn't in reference to you xor) that are willing to bend over to allow the government to keep them "safe".

Oh yeah. as far as the 3 hour security screening...
Both this tool and the shoe bomber idiot were on international flights. We can't force airports in other countries to comply to our silly rules. When I came home from Japan I didn't even have to take my laptop out of my bag for separate xraying. Either they have xray machines that can actually see through fabric there...or we are all just lucky that the scary brown people haven't figured out that they can sneak their laptop bombs on planes by way of Japan.

[sintax_error]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

I'm going to go out on a limb and pin this one on the mass media news. I caught a news segment on the way out portraying this attempted (and failed) attack as the latest and greatest threat to be reckoned with. Some dipshit tried it 9 years ago and failed, some spoiled dipshit tries it a few days ago, and fails, and all of a sudden, it's this big new threat that we have to worry about. The vary same idiots that feel warm and fuzzy about their safety after a 3 hour checkin process are the very same idiots that get scared every time the local news spokeshole tells them to.

Haven't we learned that if a "terrorist" (or terrorist equivalent of a skiddy in this case) does something, and even if he fails, we change anything about our daily business, his goal is still accomplished? I mean seriously, what the fuck? I'm with shrdlu on this; don't try to protect me, I'm not scared. I don't get kept up all night every time the TV tells me to beware of shopping cart handles or what might be lurking in my local groundwater. Take reasonable measures to keep everyone in line, continually audit said measures, and dammit let me pack my shampoo and not have to think about if my socks are matching before I get to the airport. One fuckhead fails, we take off our shoes. Two fuckheads fail (almost a decade apart, no less) and the fucking sky as we know it is falling. Weather the morons that truly believe that these asinine regulations keep us safe know it or not, these same rules support international terrorism by forcing us to change our ways whenever some sphincter goblin decides to try something.
</rant>

[EDIT] And to add to it, as far as I know, and please correct me if I'm wrong, current screening at airport security still doesn't (at most if not all airports in the US) detect PETN, the chemical used in both displays of failure.

[charliex]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

It is safer to travel on a bus or tram than on aeroplane, by the same convention.

Hopefully our laptops won't start getting shot up like that ladies mac in Israel.

[renderman]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Haven't we learned that if a "terrorist" (or terrorist equivalent of a skiddy in this case) does something, and even if he fails, we change anything about our daily business, his goal is still accomplished?

One of the best things I've ever read (probobly by Bruce) was that the best way to combat terrorism is to remove the root of the word; the terror. If the media/politicians/feds/etc would STOP breathlessly reporting and announcing the latest foiled attacks (pick any of them) and quietly tried and convicted the perpetrators and sent them to jail instead of trying to score political, advertising, or any other sort of points. Then people wouldn't feel the like there's bad guys under every rock.

Ths stupid, it hurts..

[TheCotMan]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

With the recent events in the news, how would people feel about airplane bathroom cameras?

Not worth the cost in lost privacy, and support. Cameras do no prevent crime, they provide an implied threat of retaliation as evidence for prosecution after a crime is committed. They have been shown to relocate crime, but not prevent it. To that end, a suicide bomber mixing chemicals in a airplane bathroom, once successful with their intent, won't be around to be prosecuted.

Why not just strip everyone naked and lock them in their seats? Frankly, the newest rules are just stupid, and aren't going to ensure safety, anymore than the older rules do. All these will do is further kill air travel.

People flying naked? More vomit bags -- err -- "Air Sickness" bags will be needed.

Oh bloody hell, should have listened to Cotman

I've not participated in this thread. What are you referring to?

[heisenbug]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

The problems with airline security lie in the same as almost any security. The rules are different for those attacking vs. those defending. From the Byzantine empire to today, history shows that it is much more difficult to defend than to attack.

In defending an airline, the government must defend every plane at every airport across the US, and all planes coming from foreign countries. An attacker only needs to find a lapse in judgement in one airport, on one plane, or in one location in the security process.

The system is too complex. Any network administrator will tell you that it is much easier to "secure" a simpler network than a more complex one. The same goes with military bases, concert locations, airlines, and etc. A more secure solution would make things much simpler, slower, and much more expensive. The requirements would be too restrictive, and people would complain, but they would still fly because they had to. That is until the cost of a ticket rose to a price that excluded all but the rich from flying.

[Lowie]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Oh yeah. as far as the 3 hour security screening...
Both this tool and the shoe bomber idiot were on international flights. We can't force airports in other countries to comply to our silly rules. When I came home from Japan I didn't even have to take my laptop out of my bag for separate xraying. Either they have xray machines that can actually see through fabric there...or we are all just lucky that the scary brown people haven't figured out that they can sneak their laptop bombs on planes by way of Japan.

Actually the FAA can and does enforce regulation on international airlines flying into the United States. The security checkin / screening procedures for flights departing Australia for the USA have far more stringent security measures than any other sectors.

Of course as per standard international diplomacy procedures these standards are highly variable depending on your countries economic ties to the USA.

But this is a moot discussion in a practical sense. The actual amount of time required to plan, design and implement any type of system on a current aircraft is actually stupendous. Let alone having it approved by all the relevant Aviation authorities where the aircraft will be flying. I'd conservatively put a minimum 4 year time frame to even get close to seeing this happen. And that's after it actually got through the legal approval process.

But despite all those points, as it has been stated by more eloquent people than me, cameras in aircraft lavatories will achieve absolutely NOTHING in the way of security / safety.

[xor]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

I've not participated in this thread. What are you referring to?

If I asked you about this topic prior to posting, you might have warned me that it would go in the toilet. Dumb idea, check. While I was hoping this would have spread to loftier concepts of privacy expectations in air travel, and airplane security; it seems to have degenerated to the L.C.D of the "Psycho" shower scene, and they want to video my wee wee hole. :-) I blame no one but myself.

xor

[renderman]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

If I asked you about this topic prior to posting, you might have warned me that it would go in the toilet. Dumb idea, check. While I was hoping this would have spread to loftier concepts of privacy expectations in air travel, and airplane security; it seems to have degenerated to the L.C.D of the "Psycho" shower scene, and they want to video my wee wee hole. :-) I blame no one but myself.

xor

I think we all agree that in the current climate, there is no expectation of privacy anymore. After being all but raped getting on the plane (I guess not going as far as getting raped was what allowed this latest episode) that last little expectation of privacy is in question. Not for any sound security reasoning, but because it looks like they are doing *something*

I think that for the most part, it's a bigger version of your parents house; "My airplane, my rules" (or at least my governing bodies and relevant federal authorities rules as the airlines get little say in much of it)

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that Amtrak is looking appealing?

One of the reasons I love you is because you are wise. I will choose to hitch hick or drive. Why? I have more control over the circumstances. I can get where I want to go more quickly and don't have to show creds to get there. God bless America and the truckers thereby. And yes, I carry a gun.

Thanks Valkyrie. It's sad when I'm a voice of wisdom on anything. Just shows how far off the deep end things are getting.

[AgentDarkApple]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

One of the best things I've ever read (probobly by Bruce) was that the best way to combat terrorism is to remove the root of the word; the terror. If the media/politicians/feds/etc would STOP breathlessly reporting and announcing the latest foiled attacks (pick any of them) and quietly tried and convicted the perpetrators and sent them to jail instead of trying to score political, advertising, or any other sort of points. Then people wouldn't feel the like there's bad guys under every rock.

Ths stupid, it hurts..

I totally agree with you on this one! Does the Canadian media fly all over these stories like the American media does? It seems like the American media is the main entity to always have a field day if the word "terror" is mentioned or if any ethnicity of "brown people" are involved.

[g3k_]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that Amtrak is looking appealing?

Not at all, I'm hoping more people start using it so that the price might go down a little bit. I was considering either taking a train or flying to Shmoo, but the new regulations (no electronics in carry on, mandatory pat down) are making me reconsider taking Amtrak.

[Melesse]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Render is uber wise on this. We can only be terrorized if we allow ourselves to be afraid. I am 100% not afraid of a terrorist on my plane. Do I recognize that it's a possibility (however remote)? Yes of course. But I also recognize that I could be in a car accident on the way to the grocery store less than a mile from my house. Terrorists could target that same grocery store, primarily because there are no cameras in the bathrooms and you are allowed to walk around during your last hour there. Why the fuck do we continue to allow ourselves to be scared shitless.

THIS is something I've never understood. If terrorists really wanted to "terrorize," why not send 20 guys out with AK's and shoot up 20 different schools in 20 different states? And then next month go out and shoot up 20 different supermarkets in yet another 20 states. If Terror is the objective, then they are going about it all wrong.

If I were a Jihadist and wanted to ruin the American quality of life through fear, I would do it through random shootings and bombs in middle America. Strip malls, suburbs, supermarkets, unis. Why go for a harder target like a plane?

I understand hijacking a plane, it's difficult to retake a plane cleanly. It's impossible when it's up in the air. But planes are terror attacks? There are much easier targets.

EDIT: G3K, do you have a source for those new regs? Or are those regs for Amtrak? I'm searching through google news right now, but if you could cite something... If electronics are no longer allowed on carry on, I will be petitioning my boss for the ability to travel via Amtrak lol.

Mel

[streaker69]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

THIS is something I've never understood. If terrorists really wanted to "terrorize," why not send 20 guys out with AK's and shoot up 20 different schools in 20 different states? And then next month go out and shoot up 20 different supermarkets in yet another 20 states. If Terror is the objective, then they are going about it all wrong.


Mel

Much like what happened in DC during the sniper shootings? Everyone down there was terrified of a white van being nearby, and then it turns out they were in a dark blue sedan. After driving down in that area just a few weeks ago, I couldn't help but notice the number of white vans everywhere.