Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

[renderman]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Haven't we learned that if a "terrorist" (or terrorist equivalent of a skiddy in this case) does something, and even if he fails, we change anything about our daily business, his goal is still accomplished?

One of the best things I've ever read (probobly by Bruce) was that the best way to combat terrorism is to remove the root of the word; the terror. If the media/politicians/feds/etc would STOP breathlessly reporting and announcing the latest foiled attacks (pick any of them) and quietly tried and convicted the perpetrators and sent them to jail instead of trying to score political, advertising, or any other sort of points. Then people wouldn't feel the like there's bad guys under every rock.

Ths stupid, it hurts..

[charliex]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

It is safer to travel on a bus or tram than on aeroplane, by the same convention.

Hopefully our laptops won't start getting shot up like that ladies mac in Israel.

[sintax_error]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

I'm going to go out on a limb and pin this one on the mass media news. I caught a news segment on the way out portraying this attempted (and failed) attack as the latest and greatest threat to be reckoned with. Some dipshit tried it 9 years ago and failed, some spoiled dipshit tries it a few days ago, and fails, and all of a sudden, it's this big new threat that we have to worry about. The vary same idiots that feel warm and fuzzy about their safety after a 3 hour checkin process are the very same idiots that get scared every time the local news spokeshole tells them to.

Haven't we learned that if a "terrorist" (or terrorist equivalent of a skiddy in this case) does something, and even if he fails, we change anything about our daily business, his goal is still accomplished? I mean seriously, what the fuck? I'm with shrdlu on this; don't try to protect me, I'm not scared. I don't get kept up all night every time the TV tells me to beware of shopping cart handles or what might be lurking in my local groundwater. Take reasonable measures to keep everyone in line, continually audit said measures, and dammit let me pack my shampoo and not have to think about if my socks are matching before I get to the airport. One fuckhead fails, we take off our shoes. Two fuckheads fail (almost a decade apart, no less) and the fucking sky as we know it is falling. Weather the morons that truly believe that these asinine regulations keep us safe know it or not, these same rules support international terrorism by forcing us to change our ways whenever some sphincter goblin decides to try something.
</rant>

[EDIT] And to add to it, as far as I know, and please correct me if I'm wrong, current screening at airport security still doesn't (at most if not all airports in the US) detect PETN, the chemical used in both displays of failure.

[Chris]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Repeat after me: "I refuse to be terrorized"

Render is uber wise on this. We can only be terrorized if we allow ourselves to be afraid. I am 100% not afraid of a terrorist on my plane. Do I recognize that it's a possibility (however remote)? Yes of course. But I also recognize that I could be in a car accident on the way to the grocery store less than a mile from my house. Terrorists could target that same grocery store, primarily because there are no cameras in the bathrooms and you are allowed to walk around during your last hour there. Why the fuck do we continue to allow ourselves to be scared shitless.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to die, but retarded regulations that provide no real security but make idiots feel warm and fuzzy ("If it took me three hours to get through security then they MUST be keeping me safe") are counterproductive and just plain stupid. Stop living in fear.

I am always amazed at people that I like and respect (this isn't in reference to you xor) that are willing to bend over to allow the government to keep them "safe".

Oh yeah. as far as the 3 hour security screening...
Both this tool and the shoe bomber idiot were on international flights. We can't force airports in other countries to comply to our silly rules. When I came home from Japan I didn't even have to take my laptop out of my bag for separate xraying. Either they have xray machines that can actually see through fabric there...or we are all just lucky that the scary brown people haven't figured out that they can sneak their laptop bombs on planes by way of Japan.

[xor]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Oh bloody hell, should have listened to Cotman

xor

[valkyrie]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Still waiting for more details to come in about specifics before drawing any firm conclusions

Repeat after me: "I refuse to be terrorized"

- One more thought; how many people are going to choose to drive instead of fly and end up in traffic accidents instead? Air travel is still one of the safest forms of travel.

One of the reasons I love you is because you are wise. I will choose to hitch hick or drive. Why? I have more control over the circumstances. I can get where I want to go more quickly and don't have to show creds to get there. God bless America and the truckers thereby. And yes, I carry a gun.

[renderman]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Still waiting for more details to come in about specifics before drawing any firm conclusions.

That said, the reaction has been exactly what the bad guys could have hoped for. Should the new regs about being confined to your seat for the last hour with no personal items, electronics, or bathroom access become permanent, the effect of the public deciding that it's finally not worth the hassle will be the final nail for the airlines. When you consider the integration of airlines with commerce, the economy gets really fucked.

The knee-jerk reaction to even consider cameras is foolish anyways. You would need a dedicated person to watch the camera at all times. If that person is on board, that means more weight for the airlines which increases costs (unlikely to happen), or remotely which means someones going to have the TSA title of poop inspector. Due to various laws you can be sure that the lawyers will demand that the cameras existence be disclosed and that will never work for the airlines since they will get all the flack and people screwing with them (lipstick on the lens, towels, etc).

Should a bad guy need privacy to assemble something, what about just buying up the whole row of seats and 'sleeping' under a blanket? There is no easy answer. EDIT - Apparently that's what happened, so no blankets now?

Repeat after me: "I refuse to be terrorized"

EDIT - One more thought; how many people are going to choose to drive instead of fly and end up in traffic accidents instead? Air travel is still one of the safest forms of travel.

[Melesse]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Nonsense, not being able to access the overhead bin for the last hour of flight will surely keep us as safe as we can be!

On the subject of the thread, if I found a camera in the bathroom, I'd just start performing. I'd have myself a wack or something. Got to give the poor dumb bastards watching something to tell stories about.

I just heard this, and am not looking forward to it. I hear we're now supposed to be at the airport three hours early due to new and unannounced restrictions and security measures. Given that I fly at least once a month for work, looks like a couple more hours of comp time for me!

Mel

[valkyrie]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_561503936/droob.html

Attack the idea, not the person; it's unbecoming.

xor

would have been nice had you said that when I was attacked. No worries.

I attacked the idea, not the person. Get over your personal feelings about things.

Regards,

valkyrie
________________________________________
sapere aude

[xor]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

What a droob.

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_561503936/droob.html

Attack the idea, not the person; it's unbecoming.

xor

[AgentDarkApple]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

While you may have no issues with your swang, my nether regions are sacrosanct from prying eyes.

I have to agree with valkyrie on this one.

I can see the tshirt slogan already - "Who needs voyeurism sites when you can work for the TSA"

[valkyrie]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

With the recent events in the news, how would people feel about airplane bathroom cameras?

First, no one has suggested it yet; just me, so don't search.

Not here, but it has been suggested. You are not Mr. Gee this has not been thought of before.

Second, I'm a guy, and privacy or lack there of, in a space that I can barely fit it, doesn't bother me all that much.

So, you are actually saying we really don't wish to see your hairy butt and back...

Third, I'm going to ask for a certain amount of maturity when you consider this subject. We all have bodies, we all know what they look like, we all have to use the bathroom, and know from birth what is involved in performing those acts.

At birth I thought that my toes were the bomb, but your mileage may vary...

Fourth, consider the grainy nature of most security cameras; are they really going to be able to see all that much?

They can reveal so much that...oh crap, never mind.

If there were security cameras in the bathroom, this wouldn't have gotten as far as it did. So how do folks feel about that. I personally wouldn't care, given what I've stated above, especially on international flights. While this would hurt the mile high club, I think that is one experience that I can give up in order to ensure better security.

xor

Keep telling yourself that lie. It will help you sleep at night.

Security theater, in perpetuity.

Xor, you can fly, I will drive. Your idea sucks. In perpetuity.

The best way for us to be safe when flying is for people to fly naked and standing up. Oh, and no carry ons. Xor, while I am proud of my physicality you may wish to rethink this. Cameras in the loo? While you may have no issues with your swang, my nether regions are sacrosanct from prying eyes.

What a droob.

__________________________________________________ ___________
sapere aude

Valkyrie

[xor]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

We find the bathroom as a sacred place. People are often prudish about their bodily functions. It's a taboo topic, and that part of one's privacy will probably be protected above our rights to carry weapons and have free speech.

Why....? I understand people don't want to see it(well at least not me), but where is it written. Keep in mind, only Americans are offended by the human body, other cultures have more naturalistic views about it.

xor

[xor]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Well I guess there is a lot more going on in airplane bathrooms than I thought humanly possible. :-) Clearly I've lived a sheltered life. I guess technology isn't the answer to everything. What will most likely happen is that you will get a friendly knock on the door if you are in there longer than 5 minutes. With a friendly & caring <rolls eyes>, "are you OK" through the door. After 10 minutes they will most likely just crack open the door and peer in; again in a friendly and caring manner. I see the airlines assigning both sexes of attendants on flights. This way once the sex of the person in the bathroom is identified , on the first call, they can assign a man or woman to crack open the door on the second.

Personally I would rather have a camera, and not be interrupted by a friendly caring human.Thus having to explain what I'm doing in there, and having everyone in the front rows hear it. Then after I'm done, having to walk past all those people. :-)

xor

Roamer please don't hold back.

Actually I don't think being on THEIR airplane gives you rights to privacy. Like being on someone else's network. Though I'm most likely wrong about this.

[shrdlu]

Re: Recent Events - Airplane Bathroom Cameras

Interesting topic, but I think it would never happen.

...

Socially it's just not going to happen. We find the bathroom as a sacred place. People are often prudish about their bodily functions. It's a taboo topic, and that part of one's privacy will probably be protected above our rights to carry weapons and have free speech.

Please don't say that. I have seen so many rights taken away that I would have said "can't happen" 20 years ago, that I'm very clear that Mr Orwell's imagination didn't take him far enough. Bathrooms as sacred places? Seriously? Disregarding the poor choice of words, I can tell you right now that there are PLENTY of places with cameras already in the bathrooms. Oh, yes there are.

I spent too many years in the business. There are all sorts of cameras, from the "you're meant to see this" type to the "you have no idea something can be that small" ones. High end shopping? Please. I know they don't trust their customers, and I'm pretty sure they don't trust the employees either. Vegas? Better be careful when you're on the casino floor about what you do in those bathrooms (although with the recession, probably most of them are either turned off, or not manned at all).

The important thing that people should take away from what happened on that flight is that whenever there's an event, it becomes a game changer. Before 9/11, we were encouraged to just cooperate with hijackers so that no one would get hurt, and we could all get on with our lives. When that quit working, passengers started fighting back. People even got burned subduing this guy.

You want to be safe? Build a room, line it with cotton batting, and hire someone to spoon feed you baby food for the rest of your life. Just quit trying to protect ME. I don't want it.