I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

[renderman]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

Rather than a legal issue, it's one of respect. There are people who prefer to not be photographed for whatever reason. Grey and I are very diligent about asking to take photo's of people, even of friends.

Press and professional photographers taking shots is cool, however there needs to be some code of conduct established:

1. Long shots, like from a skybox, where if you are in the crowd, your basically an unrecognizable bunch of pixels are cool.

2. When framing a shot, cover only the people and things that have given permission, be aware of backgrounds and avoid covering beyond the 'permission area'

3. Related to #2 is for interviews, don't stand them in a hallway with people milling bout behind, find a corner where you wont have people accidentally covered.

4. If your on stage, your fair game. Speakers, and contests that are on stage are fair game in my opinion. Smaller events, that can be determined by organizers.

5. Events, contest tables specifically should have the option of an official 'No photography period' or a 'No press' sign that press are made aware of to respect. Nothing worse than being in a contest and having some reporter distract you to ask questions.

6. Given the size of professional quality video cameras is now bordering on the nano size, I'll reiterate something I posted years ago. Make press wear bright orange prison issue jumpsuits. If your in a room, it would be really helpful to know who's press at a glance and make your choice then. Sadly, this may end up being a scarlet letter, but some sort of larger identification than an easily obscured badge would help alot.

We have a weird relationship with the press. They want stories, and hackers are great for that. We also need them to send out a message that we are not the threat people think we are. With a few exceptions (*Cough* dateline *Cough*) there haven't been many 'hit pieces' over the years in the grand scheme. What has been an issue is people not realizing they were talking to a reporter and saying something stupid or out of context. Given that the crowd has gone more polo shirt and khaki lately, I can understand this being an issue.

Back to the point, it's about a balance of respect. The press has a right to be there, but they need to respect that some people dont want to deal with them and should have the option of avoiding them. I think that everyone can win if we agree on a code of conduct.

Thoughts?

[streaker69]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

Why not use screen view angle reducing film?

Or make it a rule that everyone that participates in CTF has to use a Braille Display Matrix.

[hexjunkie]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

I agree with this 100%. I respect the desire to prevent "screenshots" (would it even help?) but CTF is no different from everyone else. Same rules for everyone...

Why not use screen view angle reducing film?

[theprez98]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

I am 99.8% cool with the new photography rules. the .2% comes from this:

Why is CTF different? It is supposedly THE premiere contest/event at DEF CON and everything you said above (and I snipped out) applies. What's good for Joe Attendee is good for CTF. If you are so uber 1337 and awesome that you don't want your picture taken you're probably going to win, and then you'll get your picture taken at closing so what's the difference?

I say if we are going to make it ok to photo the staff/attendees/speakers/every other contest participant then we need to make CTF play by the same rules.

I agree with this 100%. I respect the desire to prevent "screenshots" (would it even help?) but CTF is no different from everyone else. Same rules for everyone...

[Nikita]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

Nah, here's the perfect solution. Anyone that doesn't want photographed can wear this:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/u...nown-comic.jpg

Now, you kids, get off my lawn!

Haha. That reminds me, there was a guy at con with a skull bandanna over his face. He was wearing it as if he was an Anarchist at WTO or a super leet hacker the face of the underground trying to hide. It was a bit overkill and EVERYTIME I saw him I cringed and WANTED to take his picture at the same time. It's like he's trying to say YES I HAVE SOMETHING TO FEAR LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME. Really dude, you are not that special, no one cares, you are not a special snowflake and all you are doing is drawing attention to yourself. Plus...you are intentionally hiding your face in Las Vegas....say hello to every camera watching you and every act you do suspect. Neil put it best....Ever hear of Hiding in plain sight.

But...I'm a twat and I don't like people.

[russ]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

kallahar,

I'm curious as to the issue with you ending up in a commercial. Chances are, people that know you will recognize you. If I were to see it, I probably wouldn't know you from Paris Hilton.

Most people watching it are just going to see anonymous people in black tshirts leaving a convention and never give it a second thought.

I'd like to go on record that I can certainly tell the difference between Kallahar and Paris Hilton. Just so that's clear.

-Russ

[Chris]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

Both Russ and Chris are right and on to something. The reason why CTF was excluded this year is we simply didn't give them enough advance notice that it didn't seem right. There has been a longstanding unwritten rule NO pictures in the CTF room. It's been a do it and hope you don't get caught attitude in every other area of con, but in the CTF room they watch you like hawks, confrontations are far more likely and people get really *really* pissed if you film them in any capacity playing CTF. This has just been how it was all the way back and how they expect it to be. I know when I played in CTF at the AP, you'd hear it yelled once an hour NO PICTURES! People are afraid of loosing their jobs if they are seen participating in the worlds toughes hacker (oooh scary) competition.

Ctf is the 1337 contest, it's the CTF that all other CTF's model after and frankly put our CTF is the mothertrucking shiznit. BUT...it didn't seem fair, without giving them heads up and to allow feedback from the CTF organizers to throw this policy on them last minute. All the other departments, honestly, they are used to people taking pictures. Around the contest area has always had camera phones and people snapping pics and it was a way easier policy change for contests to deal with ( and enforce per the rules below on case-by case) than to throw it onto CTF, who would have never seen it coming. Frankly, they have always lived in a sheltered room with their privacy being held pretty tight. PLUS. Press loves the crap out of CTF, they ALWAYS want to go in there and we've always told them no unless we work it out for them with strict conditions being met. To open it up all willy nilly, would be exactly as you said, flashes and a big ass camera in your face when you are trying to work.

As for the policy moving forward, we've had no complaints thus far, and feedback like Kallhars is totally welcome some things we can fix, others we cant. CTF photography is tricky, but like you said, should be made available within reasonable limits. Cooperation with the CTF organizers and giving them a heads up for next year should also be a part of that plan. :-) Let me know what you think guys.

Seems fair to me. My name is Chris and I approve of this post.

[streaker69]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

kallahar,

I'm curious as to the issue with you ending up in a commercial. Chances are, people that know you will recognize you. If I were to see it, I probably wouldn't know you from Paris Hilton.

Most people watching it are just going to see anonymous people in black tshirts leaving a convention and never give it a second thought.

[Nikita]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

Both Russ and Chris are right and on to something. The reason why CTF was excluded this year is we simply didn't give them enough advance notice that it didn't seem right. There has been a longstanding unwritten rule NO pictures in the CTF room. It's been a do it and hope you don't get caught attitude in every other area of con, but in the CTF room they watch you like hawks, confrontations are far more likely and people get really *really* pissed if you film them in any capacity playing CTF. This has just been how it was all the way back and how they expect it to be. I know when I played in CTF at the AP, you'd hear it yelled once an hour NO PICTURES! People are afraid of loosing their jobs if they are seen participating in the worlds toughes hacker (oooh scary) competition.

Ctf is the 1337 contest, it's the CTF that all other CTF's model after and frankly put our CTF is the mothertrucking shiznit. BUT...it didn't seem fair, without giving them heads up and to allow feedback from the CTF organizers to throw this policy on them last minute. All the other departments, honestly, they are used to people taking pictures. Around the contest area has always had camera phones and people snapping pics and it was a way easier policy change for contests to deal with ( and enforce per the rules below on case-by case) than to throw it onto CTF, who would have never seen it coming. Frankly, they have always lived in a sheltered room with their privacy being held pretty tight. PLUS. Press loves the crap out of CTF, they ALWAYS want to go in there and we've always told them no unless we work it out for them with strict conditions being met. To open it up all willy nilly, would be exactly as you said, flashes and a big ass camera in your face when you are trying to work.

As for the policy moving forward, we've had no complaints thus far, and feedback like Kallhars is totally welcome some things we can fix, others we cant. CTF photography is tricky, but like you said, should be made available within reasonable limits. Cooperation with the CTF organizers and giving them a heads up for next year should also be a part of that plan. :-) Let me know what you think guys.

[WiK]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

Make it the new badge! :-)

I don't think I have been around long enough to weigh in on this, however I don't understand why this is such an issue. It seems as simple as "Please do not take pictures of electronic screens" and then CTF and anyone else using an ipad or competing in oCTF would be covered. The few pictures I did take, I made an attempt to make it known so that those not wanting in the shot could move out of the way, and not once did anyone have a problem.

[streaker69]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

Make it the new badge! :-)

Nah, here's the perfect solution. Anyone that doesn't want photographed can wear this:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/u...nown-comic.jpg

Now, you kids, get off my lawn!

[russ]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

If we do that, can we let the attendees wear a big ass "Don't take pictures of me" sign? And enforce it? Because wouldn't we also have to enforce it in the CTF room?

Make it the new badge! :-)

[Chris]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

Is it the players in CTF that don't want their picture taken? Or the organizers? I tend to agree that players should be willing to be photographed if everyone else at Defcon is held to that.

But, I suppose if someone is using camera flashes in my face while I'm trying to compete/think in that dark room, it would get distracting. Do you think it's too much to let the teams decide for themselves? Maybe they get a "No Photography" sign that they put up on the table when they don't want to be photographed? Then teams that want the spotlight can get some pics?

-Russ

If we do that, can we let the attendees wear a big ass "Don't take pictures of me" sign? And enforce it? Because wouldn't we also have to enforce it in the CTF room?

[Chris]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

Speaking as a CTFer, (ACME PHARM) it is to stop people from taking pictures of screens ie having a fake camera crew analyzing what exploit your team is working on etc... or so I guess.

But then why not oCTF? Or any other contest at defcon where people use a computer with some form of display?

[russ]

Re: I'm on TV! (commercial filming at defcon)

Is it the players in CTF that don't want their picture taken? Or the organizers? I tend to agree that players should be willing to be photographed if everyone else at Defcon is held to that.

But, I suppose if someone is using camera flashes in my face while I'm trying to compete/think in that dark room, it would get distracting. Do you think it's too much to let the teams decide for themselves? Maybe they get a "No Photography" sign that they put up on the table when they don't want to be photographed? Then teams that want the spotlight can get some pics?

-Russ