Defcon Kids in the news.

[chs]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

DefCon Kids will be held in their own separate conference rooms and without parent/guardian status of said kid you will not be allowed to enter the room nor will a kid be able to register for the event if said parent/guardian is not present and fill's out a lawyer produced sign-in/waiver form. Yes that means real name's must be used and contact info in case of an emergency.

Nothing in the past has ever prevented anyone, goon or human, from bringing their children to defcon and allowing them to participate in anything and everything defcon-related up to maybe the age-restricted parties. We've never asked for so much as a name, let alone ID and signing of lawerly forms, so why are we doing this for two little rooms during the con?

[StealHead]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

If we are over capacity they would have to line up in the hallways, as DT mentioned the Rio's hallways are much bigger.

Also, I doubt that a parent/kid will actually line up, they probably will go do something else. These are children after all, I can't see them patiently waiting for 50 minutes for the next session. Either they go to the workgroup room, if that's full I think they'll go do something else.

We certainly don't have all the answers but the more prepared we are the better, so keep the questions and comments coming.

[Tacitus]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

Yes that is the plan. We have 1 hour sessions in the classroom and we believe that parents and children will select which sessions they would like to attend. Once a session starts I would imagine we close the door to any late comers.

The workstation room is the same. The stations will be set up all day and the parents/kids can enter anytime there is available space for them. This workstation room is also a great place for parents/kids to go if the classroom session is full.

I guess we will play it by ear whether or not everyone has to clear the room between sessions. Matters how many people actually show up for the event.

So, do you expect to have the kids lining up outside the talk room/workshop if it is full/closed for latecomers? Would they be lining up in the Defcon hallways?

[StealHead]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

As parents come and go new openings in the room will occur. Kind of like a popular night club, as soeone leaves a new person can enter?

Yes that is the plan. We have 1 hour sessions in the classroom and we believe that parents and children will select which sessions they would like to attend. Once a session starts I would imagine we close the door to any late comers.

The workstation room is the same. The stations will be set up all day and the parents/kids can enter anytime there is available space for them. This workstation room is also a great place for parents/kids to go if the classroom session is full.

I guess we will play it by ear whether or not everyone has to clear the room between sessions. Matters how many people actually show up for the event.

[Dark Tangent]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

Just updated the FAQ with this:

Parent Responsibilities

Parents will be required to sign a waiver/release form when registering their child for the first time at the DefCon kids rooms. This waiver form will require them to show and fill out their identification for themselves and their child.

Parents are responsible for their children throughout the DefCon Kids sessions. Parents and Kids must stay together at all times. If the room fills up then the we will close the door and not allow anyone else in.

As parents come and go new openings in the room will occur. Kind of like a popular night club, as soeone leaves a new person can enter?

[StealHead]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

Just updated the FAQ with this:

Parent Responsibilities

Parents will be required to sign a waiver/release form when registering their child for the first time at the DefCon kids rooms. This waiver form will require them to show and fill out their identification for themselves and their child.

Parents are responsible for their children throughout the DefCon Kids sessions. Parents and Kids must stay together at all times. If the room fills up then the we will close the door and not allow anyone else in.

[Dark Tangent]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

Parents are responsible for their children throughout the DefCon Kids sessions. They should be no farther than 3 minutes away from their children and should have their cell phones on, ready to receive emergency calls if something should arise.

Just to clarify a bit:

I don't want parents and kids apart, even if by 3 minutes, which might turn into 4 or 5, etc. For a first year experiment, as well as liability reasons, we can't have kids and their parents separated. This is not meant to be hacker day care, but a joint experience with parents and kids, and the waiver will spell this out clearly.

This looks like a lot of fun, but please take time to plan how to manage your family and your time to get the most out of it.

DT

[Dark Tangent]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

Remember that this year the hallways are more than twice as wide as the old hallways, and traffic flow will be different as well.

[eris]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

I see by looking at the allocated spaces map here That DefCon Kids space is at the "far" end of the convention hall. It appears as though anyone attending said kid con may well have to navigate the entire length of the regular con spaces. Is there an alternate "kid safe, hassle free" entry to avoid parents having to pull children through the inevitable "make a hole" nightmare that hallways can become?

[TheCotMan]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

BEFORE ANYONE ELSE REPLIES:

Since the firewall upgrade a while back, a problem has appeared when posting a large amount of content. (The Firewall Admin knows about this, and how to repeat it 100% of the time, but needs time to diagnose it and fix it.)

If you reply to the above post, and quote a large enough amount of text, or include enough of your own text, there is risk for you to lose your entire post before it gets to the forums, eaten by the firewall.

TO AVOID THIS, consider the following:
Before you click "submit" select-all of the text of your post... everything in the post including the quotes content in the text field where you typed your post, then choose to "copy" it using your web browser.
Then, click submit.
If you see an error from the firewall, then immediately click back, locate the text field you previously copied, "Select All" then choose PASTE, and then quickly click submit.

Another alternative with firefox is to use an extension called "lazarus" which auto-saves posts that might otherwise be lost so you can try again when clicking "back" and recover text.

Thanks!

Now my reply...

Below is the FAQ or visit http://www.defconkids.org/?page_id=155

...

What Parents Must Know about DEFCON.

DefCon is a very adult orientated conference, more of a party then your typical conference. There will be adult language, alcohol and there may be nudity.

The DefCon Kids conference room will be situated in and around the adult DEFCON, therefore you and your kids will be exposed to a wide assortment of people, lifestyles and philosophies.

We are not trying to scare you off but please research past DEFCON conferences and understand the environment that you are bringing your child into.

This is great to see. Parents that enter fully informed of risks like this are less likely to impose change through request or demand on the attendee to change, or conform.

It is very wise that you read these two FAQ’s about DEFCON https://www.defcon.org/html/defcon-19/dc-19-faq.html and https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-faq/dc-faq.html

Really good to include FAQ with Defcon too, so we can avoid answering the same questions here and in email.

...
Parent Responsibilities

Parents will be required to sign a waiver/release form when registering their child for the first time at the DefCon kids rooms. This waiver form will require them to show and fill out their identification for themselves and their child.

If there is enough capacity withing the room parents are encouraged to stay but if the room fills up then the parents will need to go into the hallway.

Good planning and forethought.

Parents are responsible for their children throughout the DefCon Kids sessions. They should be no farther than 3 minutes away from their children and should have their cell phones on, ready to receive emergency calls if something should arise.

That answers another question that came up elsewhere, as to if this was a Defcon "Daycare" where parents dropped off their kids so they could go offsite to other events, or if they would need to remain nearby.

Thanks for taking the time to address many of the people's concerns. I am one of those people that will still wait and see what happens in order to see the results and comment more about it here.

Thanks and good luck.

[StealHead]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

Below is the FAQ or visit http://www.defconkids.org/?page_id=155


Let me know if any of you have any suggestions or changes you would like to see.



What Parents Must Know about DEFCON.

How do I register for DefCon Kids?

How much does DefCon Kids Cost

Parent Responsibilities



What Parents Must Know about DEFCON.

DefCon is a very adult orientated conference, more of a party then your typical conference. There will be adult language, alcohol and there may be nudity.

The DefCon Kids conference room will be situated in and around the adult DEFCON, therefore you and your kids will be exposed to a wide assortment of people, lifestyles and philosophies.

We are not trying to scare you off but please research past DEFCON conferences and understand the environment that you are bringing your child into.

It is very wise that you read these two FAQ’s about DEFCON https://www.defcon.org/html/defcon-19/dc-19-faq.html and https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-faq/dc-faq.html

How do I register for DefCon Kids

There is no pre-registration to DefCon Kids sessions. Like all DEFCON events you must wait in line outside the door for each session that your kid would like to attend.

Because of limited space in the classroom and workshop rooms, you and your kid may not be able to attend certain sessions because they will be full.

How much does DefCon Kids Cost

DefCon Kids has no additional fee but kids and parents must have a DEFCON badge. These badges can be bought at the conference. Please see https://www.defcon.org/html/defcon-19/dc-19-faq.html and https://www.defcon.org/html/links/dc-faq/dc-faq.html

Parent Responsibilities

Parents will be required to sign a waiver/release form when registering their child for the first time at the DefCon kids rooms. This waiver form will require them to show and fill out their identification for themselves and their child.

Parents are responsible for their children throughout the DefCon Kids sessions. Parents and Kids must stay together at all times. If the room fills up then the we will close the door and not allow anyone else in.

[StealHead]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

Thanks for all the opinions and comments for the DefCon Kids event.

Sorry I haven't been a little more proactive in the forum but we got swamped with emails streaming in from the website.

It is certainly clear that many of the parents do not realize what DefCon is, in almost every email that I replied to I made sure that they did a little research into the event and told them what their kids may encounter during the course of the event.

Almost 100% of those parents replied by thanking me and I don't think they will be attending.

I'm in the process of updating the website with an FAQ that will be heavy on HighWiz's comments on what parents should expect.

Everyone's kid is welcome to this event but we really would like to target regular attendees who would like to introduce their children to the wonderful world that DefCon is.

[shrdlu]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

HighWiz has some excellent points, and I hope that any parent planning on bringing children will go back read his post several times.

Please tell your children not to yell and scream before Noon - Many people are still nursing their hangovers.

Please tell your children not to yell and scream. There's no time limit on it. Some people may be unpleasant 24/7, and not react well at all to this. In addition, and please pay attention to this, Not every female you see likes children, or being around them.

I loved my daughter. She was a child a long, long time ago. Your children are no relation to me, and I'd just as soon avoid them (and will, as much as I can). I am tolerant of children of friends. Children are no longer taught manners, and have no respect for adult conversations, or adults.

On the other side of the coin:

The idea of "young hackers" is a great thing. As far as teaching them the ways of the force, I'm all on board for the concept...
Personally I've already started my nephew and niece on their way.

And I don't think anyone here has an issue with "young hackers" (Though fuck the "black hat"/"white hat" shit).

Really, this is the best way. HighWiz *knows* his nephew and niece, and every positive influence in a kid's life is great. Anyone with enough patience to sit down and explain things to the future adults they'll be gets my applause.

[HighWiz]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

I think a lot of the outcome of how DefCon Kids will "come off", will really depend on the organizer(s) of the event. If they are totally forthcoming and able to convey to the parents the issues describe in this thread, then I think it could work really well. However, if they fail in that duty, I can see the potential for many problems arising.

I have no doubt that the majority of the parents will be mindful of keeping an eye on their children. The parents interactions with the other attendees is where I think there may be issues.

Yes, there is a very good chance you & your children will have to walk through a cloud of smoke.

You and your children will be exposed to a wide assortment of people, lifestyles and philosophies.

If you're staying on site, you may have trouble sleeping.

If a kid gets lost, 99.99% of the DefCon community would help out the child and their parents. But there are also some really creepy motherfuckers who attend con.

It won't just be the language, either. Your impressionable children, may come back from DefCon flipping everyone off.

DefCon has a number of attendees who are in the GLBT (Gay, Lesbian, Blah, Blah, blah) camp, you may see things YOU'RE uncomfortable with, learn to deal with them internally now and be prepared to have the discussion with your children.

The Scavenger Hunt is one of the premiere events at DefCon, but they do some crazy (read: awesome) stuff, be prepared for the possibility of seeing some of that.

Please tell your children not to yell and scream before Noon - Many people are still nursing their hangovers.

If you come in early, and you have someone to leave your child with on Thursday, stop by DefCon 101. I would recommend strongly against bringing your (young) child to it. DefCon 101 is an R-Rated movie for language, it (like defcon) is an adult event, and that won't change.

On the other side of the coin:

Unlike a number of the attendees at Con, I'm fairly certain the children will bathe during their stay.

The idea of "young hackers" is a great thing. As far as teaching them the ways of the force, I'm all on board for the concept...
Personally I've already started my nephew and niece on their way.

And I don't think anyone here has an issue with "young hackers" (Though fuck the "black hat"/"white hat" shit).


When all is said and done, I don't foresee the problem of "DefCon Kids" being with the "kids" themselves, but rather with the parents of the kids. While the organizer(s) may say "the responsibility is on the individual parent", what they need to remember is that the parents actions will reflect on DefConKids.

And for the parents... Just be fully aware of the type of environment you're placing your children in.

As said in my first post, at the very least it will be an interesting experiment.

[eris]

Re: Defcon Kids in the news.

the blogger doesn't really make any sort of compelling case for why this is anything but a smart and responsible activity. then again, she's a New Yorker who now lives in Aspen, Colorado. i am hardly surprised to learn that she's dubious about firearms, lockpicking, and anything marginally interesting if it is exposed to the children!!1!

I agree. Her problem with the 9 yr old shooting guns seemed to be that the child had fun and may or may not have absorbed any actual safety. This ignores the fact that simply shooting in a supervised environment teaches safety with guns so they CAN be "just fun" to a kid. Knee jerk "Oh won't someone think of the chilren!" response.