Who is organizing DefconKids?

[HighWiz]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

Yes, but kids have already been attending DefCon, with badges, bought by parents, without liability wavers. So..why now? Just because it is now an official "kid event" in a special room that they still have to flow through DefCon to get to ? I guess that's the confusion. *shrug*

I don't believe most people are going to get an answer that satisfies them. Perhaps I'll be incorrect, and the DCK people will say something that puts everyone's questions to rest... But I doubt it.

[eris]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

Alright.. Let's say it like it really is and stop dancing around. It makes sense for DT to want a Liability waiver when children are involved. Sure, some adult does something stupid/get's hurt it's bad.... But in our "Think of the Children/Very Litigious" Society, if something happens to a kid people view it as being a million times worse. Is it right? No. Is it the reality we live in? Yes.

Yes, but kids have already been attending DefCon, with badges, bought by parents, without liability wavers. So..why now? Just because it is now an official "kid event" in a special room that they still have to flow through DefCon to get to ? I guess that's the confusion. *shrug*

In the end, as long as the Defcon security goons don't have to deal with the room and, hopefully, there are no screaming kid/angry parent interactions with regular Con attendees, I don't think it much matters what the rest of us think. It's happening, Deal with it. As incidents come up, if they come up, they can be dealt with and hopefully learned from.

[HighWiz]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

But, the kid needs a DefCon badge to attend KidCon.

Alright.. Let's say it like it really is and stop dancing around. It makes sense for DT to want a Liability waiver when children are involved. Sure, some adult does something stupid/get's hurt it's bad.... But in our "Think of the Children/Very Litigious" Society, if something happens to a kid people view it as being a million times worse. Is it right? No. Is it the reality we live in? Yes.

[Quiet]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

Maybe...buying the badge is a liability agreement in and of itself, for adults. Kids can't buy badges so they need the liability waver signed by the adult they are with? (Stabbing in the dark to thought process here)

But, the kid needs a DefCon badge to attend KidCon.

How much does DefCon Kids Cost

DefCon Kids has no additional fee but kids and parents must have a DEFCON badge. These badges can be bought at the conference.

[chs]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

Kids can't buy badges so they need the liability waver signed by the adult they are with? (Stabbing in the dark to thought process here)

But ONLY if they are at KidCon.

If they go to the hardware hacking village, anyone can put a hot soldering iron in their hand and go "melt some lead little Timmy!". No waiver required :)

[eris]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

Maybe...buying the badge is a liability agreement in and of itself, for adults. Kids can't buy badges so they need the liability waver signed by the adult they are with? (Stabbing in the dark to thought process here)

[HighWiz]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

i'm not saying i don't see where you're coming from... but i also most certainly see where the whole community is coming from regarding the fact that this is a great deal of "over-arching caution" that is typically incongruous with the whole DEFCON vibe.

Not to throw DT under the bus, but it seems like he is the one who is very big on the liability waivers [which makes sense, since ultimately (legally/reputation) it's his ass on the line].

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

They will be soldering stuff, etc, a liability waiver is a must.

well, we have had the Hardware Hacking Village for years now, no waivers required. also the Maker Faire events feature many such activities... no waivers there, either (they do have waivers, but mostly for rides and things)

i'm not saying i don't see where you're coming from... but i also most certainly see where the whole community is coming from regarding the fact that this is a great deal of "over-arching caution" that is typically incongruous with the whole DEFCON vibe.

[StealHead]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

Clearly you don't get it.

What's the point of the liability waiver if it only covers 1%, if even that, of Defcon?

And again, what's the point of such enhanced security if it covers 1%, if even that, of Defcon?

DefCon Kids is for children 8-16 (minors) accompanied by their parent. They will be soldering stuff, etc, a liability waiver is a must.

Check out the schedule and tell me you wouldn't want to go to this event...http://www.defconkids.org/?page_id=10 or the workstation room http://www.defconkids.org/?page_id=12

[Quiet]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

chs I'm not sure I'm following you. Anyone can attend DEFCON with or without a child.

Why waiver for parents+kids at KidCon, since no waiver for parents+kids is needed to attended DefCon?

[chs]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

chs I'm not sure I'm following you. Anyone can attend DEFCON with or without a child.
from the DEFCON FAQ:

What are the rules of DEF CON?

Physical violence is prohibited. We don't support illegal drug use. Minors should be accompanied by their parent(s) or guardian(s). Please refrain from doing anything that might jeopardize the conference or attendees such as lighting your hair on fire or throwing lit road flares in elevators. DEF CON Goons are there to answer your questions and keep everything moving. Hotel security is there to watch over their property. Each has a different mission, and it is wise to not anger the hotel people. Please be aware that if you engage in illegal activities there is a large contingency of feds that attend DEF CON. Talking about how you are going to bomb the RNC convention in front of an FBI agent is a Career Limiting Move!

Clearly you don't get it.

What's the point of the liability waiver if it only covers 1%, if even that, of Defcon?

And again, what's the point of such enhanced security if it covers 1%, if even that, of Defcon?

[StealHead]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

Ok, but then they can still attend the entire REST OF DEFCON. Without any kind of liability waiver.

So again, how does the liability waiver protect anyone, especially if a parent decides not to attend Kidcon and is therefore exempt from the waiver requirements?

chs I'm not sure I'm following you. Anyone can attend DEFCON with or without a child.
from the DEFCON FAQ:

What are the rules of DEF CON?

Physical violence is prohibited. We don't support illegal drug use. Minors should be accompanied by their parent(s) or guardian(s). Please refrain from doing anything that might jeopardize the conference or attendees such as lighting your hair on fire or throwing lit road flares in elevators. DEF CON Goons are there to answer your questions and keep everything moving. Hotel security is there to watch over their property. Each has a different mission, and it is wise to not anger the hotel people. Please be aware that if you engage in illegal activities there is a large contingency of feds that attend DEF CON. Talking about how you are going to bomb the RNC convention in front of an FBI agent is a Career Limiting Move!

[chs]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

They sign the waiver for liability reasons predominantly see DTs post on the subject https://forum.defcon.org/showpost.ph...4&postcount=32

If you don't want to sign it then don't attend DefCon Kids.

Ok, but then they can still attend the entire REST OF DEFCON. Without any kind of liability waiver.

So again, how does the liability waiver protect anyone, especially if a parent decides not to attend Kidcon and is therefore exempt from the waiver requirements?

[StealHead]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

Most of the news articles are just sensationalism (surprised?). I'm kinda surprised that once StealHead, did the FAQ and explained what was going on with it all, that people still have such an issue with it. From the sound of things, it looks like it will be well organized and turn out to be a good event.

Thanks HighWiz.

I think this is going to be a great event and I know that we are going to learn a hell of a lot from it, both the positive and negative.

[HighWiz]

Re: Who is organizing DefconKids?

Most of the news articles are just sensationalism (surprised?). I'm kinda surprised that once StealHead, did the FAQ and explained what was going on with it all, that people still have such an issue with it. From the sound of things, it looks like it will be well organized and turn out to be a good event.