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  • Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

    Hey guys. I want to show up to the Defcon shoot, but I'm from Canuckistan and have fairly limited range experience (a little plinking, some time in the Canadian equivalent of the ROTC on the rifle range) and I'm not licensed. I am, however, very interested in showing up, learning stuff and having a good time.. so here's the question:

    Can I come along?
    If so, what are the restrictions that I'd be dealing with as a non-US citizen?

    I wanted to try this out 3 years ago, but missed out because of work and wacky plane issues. This time, I'm both interested and able to get in to town earlier. I'm also amenable to showing up, and not touching a single firearm if there are responsibility, insurance or legal issues that prevent me from shooting, handling or even looking at the weapons (that last one is unenforceable, even here- I'd have to wear a blindfold, and that's dangerous). Of course, if you tell me I need a Canadian gun license to shoot with you, I might actually have enough time to go through the course and get the multiple permits if I start now.

  • #2
    Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

    Of course you can come out. The only restrictions in place will come from the owners of the individual firearms. Some will welcome you to their table and teach you how to safely operate their iron, others will simply not. Some who do may ask for compensation for the ammunition you send downrange, others will call it a donation to a citizen of a restricted nation. It's tough to say as each person will be different. Check out some of the other threads in this forum, as there is a ton of information from answered questions quite similar to yours.
    "You have cubed asscheeks?"... "Do you not?"

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    • #3
      Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

      There's no issues with you shooting guns on American (fuck yeah!) soil. The issues that typically come up around non-residents and firearms tends to center on things like hunting, concealed carry, and the borrowing of firearms.

      For example, I could take you out to the range and we could shoot guns all day. In fact, if you're ever in the Seattle area, consider that an invitation. That said, I couldn't loan you some guns to go and take to the range by yourself (at least in WA anyways) unless you had your Alien Firearms License (sadly fellow gun nuts, this is a license for non-citizens/resident aliens to possess firearms, not some sort of super-NFA license to possess alien firepower. Yes I asked. No, they have no sense of humor).



      Originally posted by Caspian View Post
      Hey guys. I want to show up to the Defcon shoot, but I'm from Canuckistan and have fairly limited range experience (a little plinking, some time in the Canadian equivalent of the ROTC on the rifle range) and I'm not licensed. I am, however, very interested in showing up, learning stuff and having a good time.. so here's the question:

      Can I come along?
      If so, what are the restrictions that I'd be dealing with as a non-US citizen?

      I wanted to try this out 3 years ago, but missed out because of work and wacky plane issues. This time, I'm both interested and able to get in to town earlier. I'm also amenable to showing up, and not touching a single firearm if there are responsibility, insurance or legal issues that prevent me from shooting, handling or even looking at the weapons (that last one is unenforceable, even here- I'd have to wear a blindfold, and that's dangerous). Of course, if you tell me I need a Canadian gun license to shoot with you, I might actually have enough time to go through the course and get the multiple permits if I start now.

      I return whatever i wish . Its called FREEDOWM OF RANDOMNESS IN A HECK . CLUSTERED DEFEATED CORn FORUM . Welcome to me

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      • #4
        Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

        Originally posted by noid View Post
        ...Alien Firearms License (sadly fellow gun nuts, this is a license for non-citizens/resident aliens to possess firearms, not some sort of super-NFA license to possess alien firepower. Yes I asked. No, they have no sense of humor).
        First you build me up...DAMMIT!
        Aut disce aut discede

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        • #5
          Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

          I did have to repost that quote on twitter, it was too good to ignore :)

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          • #6
            Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

            The only issue really, if you want to dig, is that if you are under 18 years old you need your parent's permission to handle a handgun.

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            • #7
              Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

              Originally posted by sintax_error View Post
              Of course you can come out. The only restrictions in place will come from the owners of the individual firearms. Some will welcome you to their table and teach you how to safely operate their iron, others will simply not. Some who do may ask for compensation for the ammunition you send downrange, others will call it a donation to a citizen of a restricted nation. It's tough to say as each person will be different. Check out some of the other threads in this forum, as there is a ton of information from answered questions quite similar to yours.
              Awesome. I kind of expected that. Sounds like all the same stuff that I've always seen with the American hacker community. To be fair- we're restricted to firing ranges with licensed individuals for any type of legal firearm in the same way in Canada, although it's up to the range operator who they admit.

              Originally posted by noid View Post
              There's no issues with you shooting guns on American (fuck yeah!) soil. The issues that typically come up around non-residents and firearms tends to center on things like hunting, concealed carry, and the borrowing of firearms.

              For example, I could take you out to the range and we could shoot guns all day. In fact, if you're ever in the Seattle area, consider that an invitation. That said, I couldn't loan you some guns to go and take to the range by yourself (at least in WA anyways) unless you had your Alien Firearms License (sadly fellow gun nuts, this is a license for non-citizens/resident aliens to possess firearms, not some sort of super-NFA license to possess alien firepower. Yes I asked. No, they have no sense of humor).
              Sounds familiar. Our laws are pretty similar, just more restrictive. There's a pretty interesting clause that says that members of the Commonwealth (Ex United Kingdom territories, dominions, etc) can use their guns on any other commonwealth territory, provided they're licensed, but nobody from a non-commonwealth nation (the United States, for example) is allowed to bring their weapons into the country without some serious approval and red tape. During either the last Clinton visit or GWB senior's visit, the Secret Service forgot to file the paperwork, and their guns were confiscated at the border. Hilarity ensued.

              Originally posted by astcell View Post
              The only issue really, if you want to dig, is that if you are under 18 years old you need your parent's permission to handle a handgun.
              Not an issue. I haven't been under 18 years old since... uh... since I was under 18 years old :)
              It's been a while. Side note- it's 16 here, at least for hunting rifles and approved shotguns.

              Thanks guys. Assuming all goes well with the planning, I'll be there with both my intense curiosity and silly accent.

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              • #8
                Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

                As a fellow Canuck, I can attest that there is no problem attending and participating. I have even less experience than you do with firearms and I went last year and had a great time. It's a very well run and safe event.

                The only thing I will warn you about is the inevitable feeling you will have at the end of the event that boild down to 'Oh those crazy Americans and thier guns'

                Oh, and watch out for the cannon fire
                Never drink anything larger than your head!





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                • #9
                  Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

                  As a UK national, we have very strict gun laws, and so I thought I`d attend last year just for the fun...

                  I have to say that I had the "crazy americans and their guns" opinions before I arrived, but by the end of the shoot, I was grinning like a loon, and so utterly understood it :)

                  oh, and seconded about the cannon fire... if you hear "fire in the hole" from the far end of the line, its worth stopping what you are doing, make safe, and watch that beast kick out those "cannon balls" down range...

                  61 days and counting....

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                  • #10
                    Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

                    We hit a bump in the road last week with ShortGrrl. Still hope to be there for DC20 and the shoot; it's been a bumpy year for us up and down, cross your fingers that it all works out.

                    If we are there, as always, our stuff is open to visitors. Some of my "stuff" requires that I (or ShortGrrl, for the "stuff" that is hers) be there "in control" of the item to make the ATF boys happy. Weapons regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934 fall in to a special class, but we can still share them if the owner is "in control" of said item.

                    Information wants to be free, and the most important information is "they're just gun nuts; they're just homos; they're just hackers" -- they are no different from you and me, just people who want to live as they choose and experience what they want. That's how we live, and we're glad to share it, at the unofficial DC shoot, or at our place if any of you funny talkin' folks end up in Arkansas.

                    I'm happy to see that a little reaching out matters to you guys. Make friends, shoot what you can.

                    Rock on, hope to be there.
                    TSA luvs my Uzi.

                    "We shall not cease from exploration. And the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started, and know the place for the first time." -T.S. Eliot

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                    • #11
                      Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

                      Fellow Canuck here too..

                      I basically asked the same question..

                      Its getting closer! Pumped!

                      Cant wait to get out to Vegas and meet a few of you guys (and gals ;) )

                      Shootin shaving cream cans sounds like fun, is that still acceptable ?
                      Should people bring targets ? such as paper ones ? stuff like that ?

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                      • #12
                        Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

                        Originally posted by teflone View Post
                        Shootin shaving cream cans sounds like fun, is that still acceptable ?
                        Should people bring targets ? such as paper ones ? stuff like that ?
                        is shaving cream more or less biodegradable? if it has no ill effect on the surrounding environment (and if you police up the scrap metal can afterward) then i'd be fine with that.

                        paper and other targets are also a good idea. there is no (as far as i know) established set of target holders and so forth out there on the range. so you bring your own and pack it all up when you leave.

                        most people find it's easiest to get some long wooden stakes or dowels (cut with pointy ends) and a bit of chicken wire. so you make something like this...

                        |#|
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                        a few clothespins will then affix paper to that rather effectively.
                        "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
                        - Trent Reznor

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                        • #13
                          Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

                          Lack of target holders- That is something I hadn't considered.
                          |

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                          • #14
                            Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

                            Bring Oreo cookies. They make very small targets, are biodegradable, and may attract live targets.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Non-Americans at the shoot- a very specific question

                              Originally posted by astcell View Post
                              Bring Oreo cookies. They make very small targets, are biodegradable, and may attract live targets.
                              Lmao... :)


                              Im thinking cooper wire.. it attracts crack heads in my neighborhood.. :D




                              Of course im kidding... :P

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