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How would you make Defcon 21 better?

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  • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

    totally respectful of HighWiz, who has more con knowledge and experience than i could hope to (and he's way sexier, but that counts for less in planning discussions) but i appreciate this difference of opinion and cling steadfast to my belief that there are too many talks.

    for me, it's an "energy" thing. having so many talks spreads the group out so much that there are fewer "watercooler" moments later on (maybe we would call them "keg" moments or "sitting on a couch rolling on E moments") where someone speaks up and says "awe, man... i saw [such and such talk] and it was fucking amazing!"

    a moment like that makes the con better, in my view, if a few other people hanging out in that same circle of folk chime in and say "oh yeah, i saw that, too! it was [insert agreement or disagreement here]"

    there's also two more points that aren't socially-focused, but rather they are knowledge-focused...

    1. if someone is at the con to learn, this above all else, then five tracks will almost certainly make them feel like they are missing out. i'm not saying that's a fair opinion for a con-goer to have... but it does open people up to creating disappointment for themselves.

    2. talk quality. this is a whole other thread unto itself. and i'll never call people out or name names, but from what feedback i get from most other friends at DEFCON, there is a strong feeling of "the talks are just so-so a lot of the time" or "yeah, it was kinda alright, but we walked out" *

    * SUPER IMPORTANT CAVEAT - i am too busy to attend many talks. almost all of my evidence is hearsay, and i recognize that fact. still, it is undeniable that if there were fewer talk slots then by definition the CFP process would filter out even more chaff from the wheat and leave people with the cream of the crop (wishing i could mix in one more analogy)

    this would also make the CFP process a lot harder, but of course we can go round and round on that one, too. i've volunteered to help and would welcome the opportunity, eventhough i doubt the process will ever take the form that i would idealize in my own head (people having to submit full slides with their CFP, possibly even submitting some kind of evidence of their ability as public speakers)


    So, for a variety of reasons, i remain committed in my belief that 4 tracks would be more than enough. My reasons are multiple and manifold.

    Now when are you and your sweetie-pie going to come down into the city for a drink with us one of these days, brother?
    "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
    - Trent Reznor

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    • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

      Originally posted by HighWiz View Post
      your bio for DefCon 20
      i've always been a fan of this bio for myself, above all others that i've ever seen in a con program.
      "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
      - Trent Reznor

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      • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

        Originally posted by renakuzar View Post
        Actually, if there is room in that review board, this would be a way that I could actually contribute. I'd be glad to help out.

        Walt
        We are starting to build the CFP review team. If you, or anyone else here, would like to be a part of that please email me a brief bio of your skills, or what types of submissions you feel comfortable reviewing. For example if you are not a hardware hacker you might not review many hardware related submissions and I want a good balance of reviewers skill.
        PGP key: dtangent@defcon.org valid 2020 Jan 15, to 2024 Jan 01 Fingerprint: BC5B CD9A C609 1B6B CD81 9636 D7C6 E96C FE66 156A

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        • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

          Originally posted by HighWiz View Post
          Renderman, I have to disagree with both you and Deviant here. One of the *best* things about DefCon, is that there is so much to do. I'm not knocking either of you, but I think it's kind of selfish to proceed with the idea that because you didn't "get to see your friends" or "get to see everything" that there should be less stuff (to see/do).
          No hard feelings taken, discussion is the point of posting ideas.

          Part of my opinion comes from a place of 'do alot, half assed' vs 'do less, but full assed'. I just dont want to see things get away from the orginizers where, for the sake of filling space, we are lowering the bar.

          As Deviant mentioned, it's the watercooler/keg/e on the couch moments that I love and want to find ways to facilitate that for others. My proposed schedual layout was an idea, I'd love to hear if you have any as well as anyone else.

          One of my favorite things that DefCon does is this: If you have an idea and are willing to put in the work, by and large DT/DEFCON will let you try it. They'll even create an Unofficial forum for you. So, (personally) I'd really hate to see any "limiting" at DefCon, 'cuz it runs the risk of some people with some really cool idea's being left out in the cold.
          Dont think I said that specifically, if I did, my intent was not as such. I want people with cool ideas. I dont want them displaced by people who do not contribute. My opinion is not one of exclusion, but of changing our appeal to not be as wide. If that makes any sense (things in my head are'nt always that easy to articulate).

          It's interesting that you said, and then went ahead and made your bio for DefCon 20 like this:

          If you truly want it to remain a "hacker convention" and not a "security convention", why not start with yourself and your own bio (when you present)?

          From your paper: that was written of course by, Brad Haines (RenderMan), CISSP.

          As I said, I'm not trying to ridicule you here. But if we want something to be different, we need to start with ourselves before others.

          I think that was a copy/paste from a more professional speaking gig. Late night submission. But point taken.

          As an side, using my legal name was an odd nessecity. When I started consulting, all my expertise, experience and 'street cred' were wrapped up under the name 'RenderMan'. Two seperate identities for all intents and purposes. It's been interesting to try and provide links between them that the brain inside is one and the same.

          As you pointed out in DC 101 a few times, having a nick is nessecary or else one will be assigned to you. I think most people at con would not be able to tell you my real name without having to look it up and just know me as Render. Render is my name and it's used every day as such offline as well. Ask Deviant some day about the fun situation that caused at my wedding.

          I'd like to thank you for your response. The fact we can have dialog about ideas that I love about this community.
          Never drink anything larger than your head!





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          • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

            Kive and I talked about this post-con and came up with a fews thing along with Network Jesus:
            • For the contest, for variety of reasons, I think each tier should be no more that ten hours long and all of them held for only one day. So instead of a progression the teams would choose a tier and only be presented with that series of TE tech to defeat and document.
            • A village going forward is a must to encourage pubic participation, education and for presentations IMHO. I've emailed Pyr0 and we should be fine on space.
            • On the presentations I'd like to see them be fifteen minute lightning talks or PechaKucha-ish for intros along with a hands on (do one, watch one and teach one) format. I'm pretty sure we have more than enough materiel for this already.
            • We'd like to see past teams come back and present on subjects like Adhesives, Envelopes and Evidence Pouches, Seals, Crimps, Wraps, Electronic Seals, Inks, Stamps, and Sealants (chemistry).
            • I think Datagram, Scorch, JK and the rest of MFP leading the charge would be amazing.
              I'd also reach out the teams from years past (Swift, Void Avoid, No Clue,Covert Penetration, Hacktar, Rapid Wombats, WTF Team 3) and invite them to mix.



            Originally posted by Dark Tangent View Post
            I am curious on peoples opinions about having a Tamper Evident village next year?

            We have so many tags, bags, and tapes and the contest has been around now for three years I want to try something new. The idea is to have a village, like lock picking, where people can play. Of course it will not be as large or as popular as LPV but it will hopefully inspire a wider audience to get involved. I am hoping then that I can work with another group do the TE Contest (MFP perhaps?)

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            • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

              Originally posted by Chris View Post
              It hasn't been something that has happened a lot in the past, but I think that could be on us. I think this is a good idea and will discuss the viability of having a "Presentation Discussion" sub-forum created. We'll have to get the word out through the main DEF CON site if we do it so that people know there is a place they can discuss the talks. Let us look into it and see if this isn't something we can do.

              Thanks for the suggestion.
              That is an awesome suggestion...
              --- If you're a snowflake, you're gonna have a bad time.
              Have you ever BEEN to Defcon?

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              • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

                Originally posted by dc0de View Post
                That is an awesome suggestion...
                You and other people have liked this idea, so a [forum=704]new forum for Presentation Discussions for Defcon 21[/forum] has been created.

                Let's see how it works.

                If anyone has suggestions on how to make it work better this time, please reply to the thread of purpose in the forum linked above.

                Thanks for the reminder!
                -Cot

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