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How would you make Defcon 21 better?

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  • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

    Originally posted by Legion303 View Post
    Actually, that was me. But as mine are handmade and expensive, I don't think there's much crossover in sales. Hell, I was even Twitter-vertising for Eric's and TOOOL's sets at the time. The reason mine were in the contest area was that they were at Eddie's art table, as art. I don't recommend it (selling in contest vs. vendor). Sales blew. :)
    yeah, your picks are nothing short of gorgeous. they were getting high praise at LockCon this year, too.

    what is the current price tag on a set of three or four tools from you, btw?
    "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
    - Trent Reznor

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    • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

      Originally posted by Chris View Post
      I don't hate this idea. .
      Me either. I actually really agree with both of you on this. I've been feeling like we are over extending the talk tracks and being a little too omg look a shiny bauble. I also detest anything longer than 50 minutes unless it's a panel that really justifies it. Some of us on the Review board this year made mention to revisitng the 101/newb track, and I have kept that in mind and plan to try to see it happen in the future, however I don't dictate the content and I can't force the review board and more specifically, DT, to cut back on the level of accepted talks. I do hear you though, and I've heard it for a few years in a row now and I've always agreed. Also, If I had MY Way I would schedule talks to start at 11 and end at 6. That's just ME tho, and try as I might we keep accepting more people so it is what it is.

      I also want to do away with other things, maybe try to limit the "special" speakers that are not providing content for the community.
      "Haters, gonna hate"

      Comment


      • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

        Originally posted by Nikita View Post
        Me either. I actually really agree with both of you on this. I've been feeling like we are over extending the talk tracks and being a little too omg look a shiny bauble. I also detest anything longer than 50 minutes unless it's a panel that really justifies it. Some of us on the Review board this year made mention to revisitng the 101/newb track, and I have kept that in mind and plan to try to see it happen in the future, however I don't dictate the content and I can't force the review board and more specifically, DT, to cut back on the level of accepted talks. I do hear you though, and I've heard it for a few years in a row now and I've always agreed. Also, If I had MY Way I would schedule talks to start at 11 and end at 6. That's just ME tho, and try as I might we keep accepting more people so it is what it is.

        I also want to do away with other things, maybe try to limit the "special" speakers that are not providing content for the community.

        another random idea, that may build on the "less talks" idea. Perhaps it would be wise to accept lest talks and ask some speakers that demand a large attendance to speak twice? This may not be a favorable idea, but I have yet to see it mentioned whenever the crowd/lines complaints come up.

        WiK

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        • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

          Originally posted by azpyroguy View Post

          3. Over sold - As usual the con was over sold and overcrowded again. Solution: Sell X number of badges should be sold (I think it was 16,500 I read this year), after they are gone, that's it. No more. If you don't show up in time to get a badge, tough better luck next year... its Vegas.. take a gamble.
          I am unsure how you can say this. On Sunday they were selling "souvenir" human badges at $40 a pop due to the SURPLUS they had. How is that remotely "oversold?"
          "They-Who-Were-Google are no longer alone. Now we are all Google."

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          • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

            Originally posted by eris View Post
            I am unsure how you can say this. On Sunday they were selling "souvenir" human badges at $40 a pop due to the SURPLUS they had. How is that remotely "oversold?"
            I'm not 100% certain of what was intended, but it looks like they are speaking to the "overcrowded nature" of Defcon and are suggesting a solution to overcrowding is to reduce the number of badges sold, and when the badges run out, don't make or sell any more.

            Maybe they will respond on their own to let you know what they intended.

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            • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

              Originally posted by TheCotMan View Post
              I'm not 100% certain of what was intended, but it looks like they are speaking to the "overcrowded nature" of Defcon and are suggesting a solution to overcrowding is to reduce the number of badges sold, and when the badges run out, don't make or sell any more.

              Maybe they will respond on their own to let you know what they intended.
              I do believe that Defcon this year was over crowded. This was the first year that I can remember where I haven't been able to attend a normal talk, not one by Kaminsky, but a normal talk because it was full.

              I almost think that we need to find a bigger venue (again) and increase the amount of talks and space for said talks. But I also understand the logistical nightmares of this.

              As for the badges, and I can't stress this enough, I think it was/is awesome that we are able to purchase extra badges to play with. I would love to this happen every year. Even if there were only X amount of badges for attendance, I would still want to have some badges for purchase after the fact.
              There are techs that solve problems and there are techs that call other techs to solve problems.
              Which one are you?

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              • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

                Speaking as someone who played a small part in wrangling everyone this year, I think the venue can handle the number of attendees we had, but the resources don't always get matched up to the needs as well as they could be.

                For instance, it seems like there was plenty of entertainment on Friday and Saturday night, spread out in several places to keep crowds and lines down. If whatever was happening next to the convention area was packed, folks had the option of going out to the pool and vice-versa. I felt this worked out pretty well.

                The problem with the convention area itself is that we have capacity to seat everyone, but it's basically a guess as to which talks will be the most popular. For instance, Track 4 was the smallest area but ended up attracting some of the largest audiences for a couple of talks. I know this was not anticipated.

                Now maybe they should empty 30 minutes apart (less peak traffic, but some people will miss out on a talk they want to see). Maybe we need to have fewer talks and do them in bigger rooms. Perhaps an A/V room should be allocated for people that want to watch a popular talk and can't get a seat.

                The next step up in venues is something HUGE like the convention center, and it's hard to get the "community feel" of a hacker con in a place where people have to walk 1/2 a mile from their hotel to the convention floor.

                I think there will always be some choke points and a percentage of talks that are just plain overcrowded due to their popularity not being anticipated. We can react pretty quickly to make sure everyone queues up in an orderly fashion and that we're maximizing the number of folks we can seat.

                I'd definitely like to hear other creative suggestions.

                Arclight

                Originally posted by GuloGuloDesu View Post
                I do believe that Defcon this year was over crowded. This was the first year that I can remember where I haven't been able to attend a normal talk, not one by Kaminsky, but a normal talk because it was full.

                I almost think that we need to find a bigger venue (again) and increase the amount of talks and space for said talks. But I also understand the logistical nightmares of this.

                As for the badges, and I can't stress this enough, I think it was/is awesome that we are able to purchase extra badges to play with. I would love to this happen every year. Even if there were only X amount of badges for attendance, I would still want to have some badges for purchase after the fact.

                Comment


                • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

                  Originally posted by arclight View Post
                  The problem with the convention area itself is that we have capacity to seat everyone, but it's basically a guess as to which talks will be the most popular. For instance, Track 4 was the smallest area but ended up attracting some of the largest audiences for a couple of talks. I know this was not anticipated.
                  Arclight
                  This has been suggested before, but maybe it's worth trying, at least on a trial basis: let people "vote" on the talks they want to see ahead of time, and compare the data to turnout. Sure, people will try to break the voting system or otherwise screw with it. Certainly don't rely on this data for critical decisions, but *maybe* it will give the sense of what talks will be popular.
                  "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

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                  • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

                    Yeah, we tried this a few years ago and it turns out that it's extremely hard to predict. The greatest thing about most of the Rio rooms is that they're plenty big for people to just hang out in. Only a handful of the biggest talks were full.

                    Now Track 4 is another issue. CTF and Track 4 should have been swapped. There are NO talks that fit in a small room any more.

                    Kallahar
                    --- The fuck? Have you ever BEEN to Defcon?

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                    • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

                      Originally posted by kallahar View Post
                      Yeah, we tried this a few years ago and it turns out that it's extremely hard to predict. The greatest thing about most of the Rio rooms is that they're plenty big for people to just hang out in. Only a handful of the biggest talks were full.

                      Now Track 4 is another issue. CTF and Track 4 should have been swapped. There are NO talks that fit in a small room any more.

                      Kallahar
                      When was it tried? What were the results? I'm fairly active on the forums and I recall talking about it on several occasions, but never seeing it put into place.
                      "\x74\x68\x65\x70\x72\x65\x7a\x39\x38";

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                      • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

                        Originally posted by xiitone View Post
                        Some sort of split screen on DEFCON tv where we can see the slides/demo along with the presenter would be awesome.
                        I second this. I was unable to get into some presentations and watched them in my room at the Rio instead. Unfortunately, defcon TV only showed the speakers, and some presentations really lost a lot by not including the slides.

                        To add my own suggestion, how about discounted tickets for children attending defcon kids when their accompanying adult buys a regular human ticket? It's great to see how much defcon kids has grown and developed, but with such a full schedule in the defcon kids program, it seems a little unfair to charge the same price for kids who are only participating in a subset of the con. Plus, people with younger kids probably are not taking them to the after-hours events that are part of "general-admission" defcon. The kids' badges could be visually different from the human badges to deter adults from trying to cheap out, and could be restricted to the intended age range for defcon kids.

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                        • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

                          i personally plan to keep on shouting the "Two Tracks Only!" mantra from the mountaintops forever and ever. there are TOO MANY talks overall at DEFCON. period.

                          this isn't even a commentary about speaker and topic selection, which is a whole other point of contention every year (but this year especially) but rather simply a statement that fragmenting out the energy of the group so much is hurting DEFCON, in my opinion.

                          it's awesome to be in the hangout area or at a party or even just on Twitter and saying "wow, did anyone see blah blah blah's talk at noon today?!" and have a dozen people around you all respond with a hearty, "yeah, it was awesome!" or "i can't wait to try that!"

                          you don't get that anymore at DEFCON. you are lucky if even your closest friends have seen the talks that you saw, let alone other people whom you meet at parties.

                          this, plus the fact that i would really love to see more review or discussion of the talks that are being proposed... that would make the biggest difference in DEFCON, in my view.
                          "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
                          - Trent Reznor

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                          • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

                            Make the entire screen the slide and put the presenter in a little "2nd channel" type of box.

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                            • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

                              Originally posted by astcell View Post
                              Make the entire screen the slide and put the presenter in a little "2nd channel" type of box.
                              No one really needs to see the speakers, just the audio and slides would be awesome.

                              What would be REALLY cool is if the talks were broadcast via FM/AM radio live. Perhaps not everyone, but so you could listen while in the chillout room perhaps with speakers out for the smokers.... Maybe some other quieter areas of the CON like the bloodkode room.

                              Just a random idea...

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                              • Re: How would you make Defcon 21 better?

                                Maybe we can get an I <3 Radio station.

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