benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

[Deviant Ollam]

hey, all... i wanted to share some thoughts and notes i have taken over the past few years and let you know where my head is for the DEFCON Shoot. since we now run more lane sessions (two Wednesday night shooting hours and two Thursday morning shooting hours) this means more money comes in on account of more lane rentals.

i don't keep that cash for myself, but rather i try to fold it all back into the event. so i've been looking for additional things we can invest in to make life better out there in the desert. here are my thoughts...

DuraSeal spinner targets (EDIT: looks like this store is sold out, but other places have these. i really really like them.)

Big Gong

Bouncy Box (EDIT: looks like the Bouncy Box is sold out, but the Gun Ball might do. I liked the box more, since it would not roll so far)

Those are all great items and i want to have plenty of them along the various lanes. I think at least one Spinner or Big Gong will be at the end of each lane and i'll toss some bouncy boxes around on the ground. We can seriously field test just how many hits they can absorb, hah. This will also make it easier on folk who don't have targets with them.


Pennants for Target Lane Lines and Re-Bar or Thin Rod Stock for Pennants

I want to better-delineate the lane lines further downrange. I'm thinking that small, diamond-shaped pennant flags will do the trick. Something like the following...

< 1 || 2 > ______________ < 2 || 3 >

...that would be your view if you are in Lane #2. So you can clearly see where you're supposed to be shooting and where to set up any of your own targets.


Hang Fire Bucket

I have to see how other ranges make these... i'm imagining a 5 gallon bucket full of sand and a hole in the lid. the hole lines up with a PVC pipe going down into the sand. hang fire rounds get dropped in there and later disposed of



First Aid Kit

i know others have things like this, but there should also be an official DC Shoot aid kit that lives with us. i'll want input from those who act as medics as to what we should have with us in our official kit.




Little Lights for Tents?

i think i have some ideas here. something that at night people can use to illuminate their areas



Communication?

This is part of a larger question that staff will consider. donated radios would be needed, if they're to be acquired, i think.




Clocks with Planned Session Times/Cease Fires

I think that this would be interesting to attempt. thinking of getting really cheap wall clocks, painting their faces white, marking off slices like pie wedges that show hot/cold lane times... that way, no one is caught by surprise, etc.

[seeess]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

For steel targets I wouldn't cheap out, especially if you have everyone shooting them with fmj rifle rounds. The last two years I've purchased from a local guy lvsteeltargets.com. He has let me pick up the target in the morning, shoot it during the day, and drop it off with him in the afternoon to ship it back to my home.

I'm not sure what your budget is but a 12" circle target that is 5/8th inches thick of ar500 steel is $125. Even if we only had one of those, we could throw it out at 100-200 yards and try to do some damage to it.

Or maybe I can talk him into a rental program for a 12" gong he might already have. I could try to bill it as a torture test of his product that he could promote after.

[Deviant Ollam]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

I think that for purposes of transport, ease of setup, less ricochet, etc etc etc... i'll likely go with these rubberized polymer targets as opposed to steel ones.

I've had really good luck with them in the past, even when using high caliber rifle rounds.

What are others' experiences?

[gnull]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

I've never used anything other than steel before so not much to contribute there. I have used the cheap ones though and they definitely do shred pretty fast. I'm curious about the poly ones, do you still get some kind of satisfying noise from them?

I do however have access to some of the bouncing targets (one box and one ball I think) that I can contribute. They have held up pretty well in my experience, but I've never hit them with anything bigger than .223.

[DaKahuna]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

Hang Fire Bucket

I have to see how other ranges make these... i'm imagining a 5 gallon bucket full of sand and a hole in the lid. the hole lines up with a PVC pipe going down into the sand. hang fire rounds get dropped in there and later disposed of

Great ideas.
I like this idea and to me it's more eco friendly than those I have seen in the past that were buckets of penetrating oil. The oil penetrates and prevents the powder from goig off. The sand would show down any round that cooked off but would not prevent the round from going off like oil would. However, much easier to to dispose of a bucket of sand than it is a bucket of oil ;-)

[bluknight]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

For the pennants, driving rebar into the ground might be a problem. Additionally, you'd want the lane markers rigid as to be readable at all times.

For the former issue, although a little heavy and poor aim might cause a problem with ricochets, here's a possible solution: Feedle and I use "mast buckets" in our ham radio work a lot. 10-20 pounds of quick-set concrete in a 5 gallon bucket. Set a piece of galvanized pipe (threaded, with a T connector in concrete end) as a mast stub. Put your mast in/on top of it. The mast can be anything -- more galvanized pipe, PVC, even a "painters pole" from the local hardware store. It wouldn't be hard to put together a configuration that would be workable for lane markers.

Downsides:
* lots of bulk -- I don't think you'd want to ship this cross country, and I don't know if you have workable storage for the rest of the year in SoCal or Vegas.
* ricochets -- someone not aiming or spray-and-praying could end up causing a lot of loose rounds.

It's probably almost as easy to just build a PVC base for this configuration as well. Lighter, more collapsible -- but loose rounds could cause a lot of damage to the markers as well, and might cause shrapnel issues depending on force and vector. Maybe build the lane markers out of wood onsite?

Ok, I'll stop thinking on the keyboard now.

[RoboHak]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

I brought some of those rubberized targets last year. They worked very well since they could be shot over and over without needing to be reset. Unfortunately the local ranges don't allow those types of targets, so I haven't been able to test their durability. I did notice that the metal stand for the gong version got hit and bent. I still think they are a great idea for the defcon shoot, but the stands may need to be fixed or replaced if they are used for multiple years.

For lane markers, I was thinking of something simple like these flag stakes from hardware stores. They are cheap and come in packs of 100. I would think that a line of these marking the border of each shooting lane would make it very easy to tell where your lane and targets are located. The only issue may be when it starts getting really dark.

Speaking of shooting in the dark, the last session on Wednesday night was a lot of fun. The only issue was seeing the targets. I had a flashlight which worked well enough for me. Maybe we should bring in some lights this year, or at least recommend that people bring flashlights. It was fun shootingin the dark, but for safety we should be able to see our targets clearly. I did bring a small generator last year which should be able to power some halogen construction lights or something along those lines.

I hope more people decide to camp out this year. Last year I was part of only 2 small groups who decided to camp at the site. It was very nice out there, but it would be a lot more fun with a larger group of people.

I'm definitely looking forward to this year's defcon and the defcon shoot.

--
RoboHak

[Ziptie]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

Something built like this gear stand (http://www.itstactical.com/intellico...al-gear-stand/) combined with a few different colored spray paints would make inexpensive, easily transported and assembled lane markers. Maybe some glow in the dark paint for the evening.

[Gigs]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

I hope more people decide to camp out this year. Last year I was part of only 2 small groups who decided to camp at the site. It was very nice out there, but it would be a lot more fun with a larger group of people.

My wife and I will probably camp again, at a minimum.

Regarding targets, I know I keep teasing with it, but I really do have a neat target holder thingy in the works. Don't know if production will get going by Defcon time or not.

[astcell]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

I did enough camping with guns in war zones. You'll have to pay me to do that again!

[FirmWarez]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

Targets:

I've only shot steel (SMG matches) and paper. Like has been said, steel at this event invites rifle rounds and ricochets, and it would probably be difficult to police a "pistol round only" area.

First Aid Kit:

I'm still brainstorming on this one. The issues here are 1) what are the most likely injuries and 2) how long would it take to transport out someone with a serious injury?

My current thoughts, focusing on the more common, minor concerns:

1) Shaving cream -- it's sterile, cleansing, and cooling, a good first step for burns (which are the most common injury I've dealt with at shoots...yeah, had a very experienced fellow glitch and pick up a hot belt-fed)
2) Next step up 'real' burn spray -- with lidocaine. Luv me some lidcoaine hyrdochloride when needed.
3) Benadryl -- scorpions and other stuff out there that could cause someone an allergic reaction
4) Saline solution -- for cleaning wounds and flushing out eyes
5) Anti-biotic cream
6) 4x4s
7) Tape
8) Ace bandage
9) Cold packs
10) Sterile gloves
11) CPR mask

And of course the usual band aids and other suspects for typical ouchies. I carry a lot more in my kit.

We are planning on camping. Hopefully the Rover (whichever one we bring this year) will have a siren and PA in it by then, if so feel free to use that for announcing cease fires etc.

[W@Rp7]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

I did enough camping with guns in war zones. You'll have to pay me to do that again!

I second that! Zangabad and Masum Ghar has cured me of this ephing good idea fairy

[W@Rp7]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

Targets:

I've only shot steel (SMG matches) and paper. Like has been said, steel at this event invites rifle rounds and ricochets, and it would probably be difficult to police a "pistol round only" area.

First Aid Kit:

I'm still brainstorming on this one. The issues here are 1) what are the most likely injuries and 2) how long would it take to transport out someone with a serious injury?

My current thoughts, focusing on the more common, minor concerns:

1) Shaving cream -- it's sterile, cleansing, and cooling, a good first step for burns (which are the most common injury I've dealt with at shoots...yeah, had a very experienced fellow glitch and pick up a hot belt-fed)
2) Next step up 'real' burn spray -- with lidocaine. Luv me some lidcoaine hyrdochloride when needed.
3) Benadryl -- scorpions and other stuff out there that could cause someone an allergic reaction
4) Saline solution -- for cleaning wounds and flushing out eyes
5) Anti-biotic cream
6) 4x4s
7) Tape
8) Ace bandage
9) Cold packs
10) Sterile gloves
11) CPR mask

And of course the usual band aids and other suspects for typical ouchies. I carry a lot more in my kit.

We are planning on camping. Hopefully the Rover (whichever one we bring this year) will have a siren and PA in it by then, if so feel free to use that for announcing cease fires etc.

Firearms + Live rounds = Tourniquet + Plenty of gauze.

[seeess]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

For shooting steel, how about a minimum distance of 150+ meters? And tell people with the steel core 7.62x54r (and other AP rounds) to avoid shooting it?

[Weinie]

Re: benefits and amenities for DC21 Shoot

I can pickup 4-5 cases of orange skeet/trap clay targets and bring those down Wed night. They make great targets. The local Bass Pro store has them for sale.

Joe