Women of Defcon

[KeLviN]

pezz; what 2 exceptions?

PM me if desired....

[Effugas]

Guys who take the time to be nice, articulate, and respectful are generally more successful. (Hint hint!) But that's just me.

I note you go on to describe a group of kind and respectful men who were nonetheless quite unsuccessful.

--Dan

[pezz]

Originally posted by Shalome
Are any of you women going next year? Did I meet any of you THIS year?

I was there this year and unsure if we met. I did talk to several females. Next year is still in debate. Blackhat is probably going to be my number one stop and if the weeks merge perhaps con. I will however be traveling this year (November) to someplace in LA or Burbank if you are from that area perhaps we could get together for a chat.

Kelvin,

You have a PM.
:D

[3believers]

It's all about superior knowledge or ability, in a multiplicity of fields -- not just l33t hax0r stuff, and not just sexy babes competing to see who can be the most scantily clad.

As an overweight, middle-aged wife and mother at my third DefCon, I must say I had a GREAT time just watching the "show." And I enjoyed every one I met.

I can't tell you much about the secrets of my computer system, but I've got the social engineering process down to a Fine Art.

(I think it comes with motherhood and remaining married to the same man for 28 years.)

I look for opportunities to interact with people from whom I can learn, and with whom I can discuss what life has taught me about SE. ...which is not always an evil thing. It's all about persuasive suggestion, about offering the opportunity for another to choose cooperation with a particular point of view or course of action.

...difficult to put into words, but definitely an art form that takes years to perfect.

At my advanced age, I was definitely not an object of sexual harrassment. <grins> But at the same time, I was also not subjected to derision or disrespect.

In spite of the tiresome goth fashions and attempts at the visual shock element, I found the male contingent at DefCon 11 to be reasonably courteous and always happy to talk about themselves... which is how SE always begins. <smiles>

It was a great show! Had a wonderful time. Looking forward to next year!

[polyhazard]

re:

thank you CCC, for that very eloquent reply. You said most of what I would have but much better put.

This was my first Defcon, and I had an absolutely fantastic time.

about sexism: Early in the weekend I recieved the nickname "Jiggles." At first I was slightly appalled, but after talking to some of the people instead of throwing a fit it was made clear that the name was a personality thing, not a tittie thing (I'm one of those "cheery" types.)

Sure, there were some assholes, but overwhelmingly guys were pretty cool. Even if it seemed like they made assumtions based on gender intitially, most people would treat me as equal if we got around to talking at all.

(oh yeah, I was one of those nekkid in the hot tub, and I don't really think that pegs me as "slut" considering that the nekkid group was co-ed and close. besides, it's a goddamn hot tub!)

[CCC]

success

Dear Effugas/Dan:

I said, "Guys who take the time to be nice, articulate, and respectful are generally more successful. (Hint hint!) But that's just me." Then, you replied, "I note you go on to describe a group of kind and respectful men who were nonetheless quite unsuccessful. "

I'm not quite sure what you meant. I didn't think I addressed the actual success rate of respectful vs. rude come-ons in the posting. Did you mean the kind and respectful men were unsuccessful in general, or were they unsuccessful with me in particular? I suppose I should address both interpretations, just in case.

The sentence preceding the one you quoted was, " Most come-ons are clumsy and made in vain, whether or not they're made at Defcon." I didn't mean to imply that all men who are nice, articulate, and respectful are _always_ successful; rather, they are "_generally_ more successful." So as to not speak for the entire population, I also added the caveat, "But that's just me." The "Hint hint!" before that caveat was merely a suggestion that clumsy and disrespectful come-ons might not work as well as others. To be honest, I don't know how many people got laid or how many people started what could be beautiful and long lasting relationships and I don't know what come-ons, if any, were used to instigate them.

If you were referring to kind and respectful men being successful with me in particular, I should point out that I said in my posting that I walked around escorted by friends, "so as to not mislead guys and think I'm out for a date." What I meant here was that I was not looking for a partner. Success of come-ons, disrespectful or not, was more or less a non-issue with me specifically. I am happy to say that I have been with the same nerdy man who has been consistently kind, articulate, and respectful to me for the last 8 years. Hopefully, I can be like 3believers when I grow up!

Thanks for your input Effugas/Dan! If I interpreted your comment wrong, please let me know. :) I like that this forum isn't limited to women talking amongst themselves, and that men are listening and contributing as well.

Thanks to Shalome, {x}tasy, and Polyhazard for you kind comments regarding my verbose post. This is what comes from being a doctorate student in the humanities with very little to no 133t skillz and too much time on her hands. :)

[NaturGirl]

I didn't see it at all

I guess I am just way anti-social. I only got hit on by maybe 3 people tops the whole time.

I don't drink or party really, so I guess that was an issue. I mostly just hung with friends and coworkers and such and played in the pool and went to the presentations that i was interested in. :-)

I had a great time. People were nice and treated me with respect and as an equal (some asked who I worked for or why I was at defcon, but it wasn't in an offensive way).

And... I actually enjoyed watching all the pretty eye-candy chicks in their neat clothes. I wish I had a better wardrobe and could get that kind of attention sometimes. :-D

Hey, I'll throw in a pic of me in a bikini. Maybe now that dc is over I'll get hit on by some quality geeks ;-)

[KeLviN]

good lookin girls (that went to talks), with a good experiance of con. thats what i like to hear.

[alklloyd]

I was very pleased at the number of ladies this con. I assumed they were taken for the most part. I'm older anyway. I didn't see anyone being dissed myself (but I missed sunday night).
There was this one beautiful black lady at pool one with the lisa loeb glasses I regret hitting up on though...

Still a bit hung over,

Al

[alklloyd]

Originally posted by KeLviN
good lookin girls (that went to talks), with a good experiance of con. thats what i like to hear.

Amen Kelvin

[Effugas]

CCC--

I appreciate your courtesy regarding this subject; it's sensitive material to say the least :-) But I'll try to relate what drew me to that line.

My post was to point out (bluntly, I know) that all those guys who did exactly what you said guys should do, well, it did make you feel good, but that's all it did.

Kindness, respectfulness, and the ability to articulate oneself are wonderful traits, but telling guys it's what will bring them success just isn't very good advice. We're geeks -- our shoulders are wet with the tears of girls who have cried on our shoulders, and we were happy to be there. But it's a strange sensation to be kind and respectful while a girl openly wonders why the guy she's with isn't being kind and respectful...

Basically, your post played into one of the falser dichotomies in common guy belief; that of the "asshole vs. nice guy". In this dichotomy, "nice guys" are kind and friendly and alone every saturday night. This makes them progressively more and more bitter, until they become assholes, when finally they could become successful. But, alas, the nice guy ends up being too good at heart, so he never becomes sufficiently enough of an asshole, so he never gets anywhere except the bitter end of a broken heart.

That's the broken script you accidentally funneled a bunch of geeks towards.

Yeah. Don't do that.

Look. It's not about being a nice guy or an asshole -- it's about possessing self respect. We know more about ourselves than anyone else; if a guy doesn't even respect himself, why should a girl bother to disagree? Kindness without self-respect is at best a tribute to a superior and at worse a passive-aggressive demand; I did nice to you, please like me? Cruelty without self respect is just as useless -- these assholes are commonly referred to as creeps. It's only when self-respect is introduced that success is possible; a friendly introduction from a confident source is going to go somewhere...and, as our wet shoulders show, so too will a very confident Nice Shoes.

Such is the way of things.

--Dan

[hackajar]

When the talks were over, and everyone started to get drunk(er) durning the night, I wanted to "go on the prowel". But, my problem is, I'm too sensitive to ladies (panzy alert?). I really don't like even remotly offending ladies (even if they are in a 'whore's uniform' -david schpell). But even that said...The girls that were not attractive to me, gave smiles, and I knew they were either over eager to "get some action" or just just attention, so I did not want to bother with them, I would rather talk to someone about subject related (DC) stuff. The ladies that were attractive to me, I didn't even want to bother, cause they probably are tired of being hit on by 4,500 men.

There is also the Catch-22 of Con ladies, scene whores aside there are pretty much two types of ladies:

1. Women who are not attractive, but want all your attention, and will run around naked to get it.

2. Attractive women, who 99% chance, came with a man (disregarding if they are there "representing" or understand what's going on).

There are the 1% girls who are interesting and attractive to me, and single, but that gets back the the whole 'needle in a hay stack' thing.

*End Sound Off*

[jesse]

It's defcon... any girl you'd want has 2 girlfriends and a boyfriend, the one's that don't, you certainly don't want.

Though, maybe this year was the year to be gay, I saw a lot of men kissing other men, much more so than last year.

But that's cool, the Spartans did it and they were the toughest soldiers around, right? right?

[blackwave]

Originally posted by jesse
Though, maybe this year was the year to be gay, I saw a lot of men kissing other men, much more so than last year.

... no, that was just hizzle and stitch... they just were everywhere. ;) ;) ;)

[Effugas]

NaturGirl--

I'm not sure what's most interesting about that photo:

a) The hotness, front and center,
b) The guy taking the photo in the background,
c) The hand lotion in the foreground.

Clues for us?

--Dan