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  • #46
    I have met 16 year old who are more mature than 36 year olds. The age limit is an arbitrary number set by our society based on certain assumptions. If you don't like it and it is that big a deal then you can move to a country where the legal ages suit you better, or when you are old enough to run for office then do so and change the laws.

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    • #47
      ok, so I'm a bit sensi

      Ok, I'll admit, I'm a bit sensitive about this issue because I've had a friend spend time in jail for having a completely consentual relationship with a 17 year old girl. They didn't cross state lines, she was going to school, had a job and a car, it was all good. Then someone called the cops because they thought they knew better or maybe just because they were pissed that they weren't getting any.

      I want to reiterate that I agree with Astcell, the issue is not maturity; the age of majority really is a random number. The point is, we don't make the laws but we're subject to them.

      Further, there are *numerous* examples (Mary Kay LaToureau anyone) and one that occurred within the last 2 years, of an adult woman bringing an underage male with her to Vegas. This did *not* occur at Defcon. They spent several days alone in a hotel room while his parents had no idea where he was or who he was with. She was a teacher of his, she went to jail (this was NOT ME I know what some of you dirty minded people are thinking!!! :P).

      Details notwithstanding, I can easily see reasonable adult woman finding herself in a situation, in the heat of the moment, and not asking for proof of legal age. I don't think the law cares if the minor is male or female any more is what I'm getting at and there are plenty of non-heterosexual attendees who would also throw out any gender biased argument. So, it's not about maturity, it's about that jail thing and those upset parents.

      I'd be all about don't ask don't tell if there was no risk of some drunk kid falling in the pool and drowning at 3am.
      </ babbling>

      ndex
      *considering exploring careers in teaching*
      That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

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      • #48
        I run Cooncon 3-4 times a year and you have to be 18 to attend, 21 to drink. I know a guy who is 17 and is VERY mature, but the laws will not fare well with me if he is injured. Nothing personal.

        Just be glad the age of majority is 21, not 40. :>

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        • #49
          The USA is really a ridiculous country. I remember going around some resort in Hawaii with an open bottle of beer and the panic that just caused everyone. Because, you know, I could have died and then my family can sue everyone for not stopping me.

          I can't wait to attend UNLV.

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          • #50
            I went to Thailand in 1996. A friend and I went to their equivalent of a 7-11 at 3:30am, bought a beer, gave the salesgirl a sip of it. then walked right down the center of the boulevard drinking his beer. He laughed out loud, lifted his beer to a traffic cop, toasting him, and the cop tipped his hat back. Then my friend smiled and said, "And they call AMERICA a free country!"

            I have to agree.

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            • #51
              Tangent?

              Ha, we're talking about liquor consumption, yet this thread is about trying to give a Mormon kid pitches to his parents so he can go to Vegas. dev/null, here we come!
              Last edited by phobal; April 29, 2004, 00:29.

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              • #52
                Travel outside the US and you'd be amazed what the world is like.

                Most of europe is like that regarding alcohol (age and the ability to drink it outside etc).

                Japan is similar to thailand. I can buy a 1L can of Asahi beer outta a vending machine at 3pm on a Tuesday afternoon and go through a stroll of Shinjuku satisfying my thirst and it is a NON EVENT. No one is going to throw a harry fit.
                Livin it up in the digital metropolis known as Tokyo.
                Tokyo's 2600 web page: www.tokyo2600.com

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                • #53
                  nice

                  thank god i live in vegas.
                  */-\CideX*

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Dented-Halo
                    Travel outside the US and you'd be amazed what the world is like.
                    True, but there are a lot of good things about the US that you will not find anywhere else in the world. Not saying that the US is better than anywhere else (or vice-versa), but I am rather fond of the fact that my basic freedoms (and several others beyond that) are *guaranteed*. There is a piece of paper that says 'this is what your government is and is not allowed to do, and specifically to you'. Not many other places on the planet do that.

                    Most of europe is like that regarding alcohol (age and the ability to drink it outside etc).
                    Depends on where you are, though. Some places it'll get you ticketed or arrested, in others they don't care. In my experience (speaking as an immigrant from Europe to the US), most of Europe isn't like that, just certain places.

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                    • #55
                      skroo, I'm not disagreeing with you per se, but I would like a little clarification on your post. In your mention of a peice of paper that says what the government can and cannot do, are you referring to the Constitution/Bill of Rights, or just law in general? I can't help but feel that certain unalienable rights are soon to be alienated, especially considering the USA PATRIOT Act, DMCA, Copyright extensions, et cetera. Every time I read the news, I become a little more irritated, as it's usually about how some megacorp got another law passed to screw the little guy, or how someone else is being held without trial (but that could be from reading too much Slashdot).

                      Eh, I could go on, but I've probably ranted enough.
                      The Sacred Chao says, "MU".

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by dirtwork
                        Every time I read the news, I become a little more irritated, as it's usually about how some megacorp got another law passed to screw the little guy, or how someone else is being held without trial (but that could be from reading too much Slashdot).
                        If you are in school, take a mass communications course. There you learn media effects and agenda setting theory and the beauty of framing. I think that's why you are irritated. Heh.

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                        • #57
                          Skroo

                          You are right on the button too on how the US has its positives. I have had the chance to visit almost all of the western states over the past 20+ years and I love it, I always have a good time and god damn it americans are some of the nicest people I have ever had the chance to meet with.

                          The constitution is a revolutionary document that even today in teh 21st century some citizens of "1st world" nations do not even have.

                          However I do see an eroding of those freedoms that americans wrap around themselves. As a NON american citizien not living in the states, I "think" I have a different perspective and angle from the news and information that I get that is a bit different from what hte average american gets (if they even watch/read news) and it scares me. For if america can be changed/manipulated in such ways, then every other nation is at risk.

                          also, god doesn't only bless america ;)
                          Livin it up in the digital metropolis known as Tokyo.
                          Tokyo's 2600 web page: www.tokyo2600.com

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                          • #58
                            After reading all the posts on this...

                            back to the original question and some of the answers -

                            Bring family to vegas? Good idea. There's lots to do. Even better talk Dad (if he's into computers) to come to the con during the daytime on Friday. It's before everyone gets really drunk and stupid.

                            Show them pics from past DC? Bad idea. They'll never let you attend.

                            Bring them by at night? Bad idea. They'll leave immediately. Hacker Jeopardy on night 2 could definately set off some parent's sensibilities. Also drunk people passed out around the pools.

                            Legalities of transport. Don't. You're under age and it could be an issue. Some parents get very protective post event, and could try to have someone charged. Probably wouldn't, but could.

                            Get there on your own and meet up with some one. Good idea, but it'd also be good to have your family know the person(s) your meeting up with and be willing to sign a waiver to treat in case you get injured in any way.
                            These are boiler plate and can be found on the net.
                            justazero -
                            "Skepticism, like chastity, should not be relinquished too readily."
                            - George Santayana

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                            • #59
                              [QUOTE=3lM0]I will be turning 18 next year and I want to go to defcon this year really bad but my parents wont let me go to Las Vegas because they say "people die there". /QUOTE]

                              tell them "People die everywhere, you only live once. Now get your shit and hop in the car." :D
                              The only stupid question is the one that you dont ask.
                              Or the one that ends up in dev/null.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                [QUOTE=enCode]
                                Originally posted by 3lM0
                                I will be turning 18 next year and I want to go to defcon this year really bad but my parents wont let me go to Las Vegas because they say "people die there". /QUOTE]

                                tell them "People die everywhere, you only live once. Now get your shit and hop in the car." :D
                                AAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN.

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