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  • #46
    Priest has stomped on my talks at defcon too, but shit happens, and he doesnt mean it to be a dick... the man just loves to talk...

    plus what are you talking about? your talk was the shit and we all know it...

    -hdink



    Originally posted by Effugas
    Heh guys, this is Dan Kaminsky...thought I'd take a second to shed some light on what went on from my perspective.

    So, as a speaker, you end up going into the ready room about forty five minutes before your talk. If something was going to go down during that time in the general con -- there's no way I'd know. And I didn't -- all I knew was that Priest had a message to deliver, and since he's basically the head goon and one of the oldest school supporters of Defcon, he gets alot of deference.

    Once it turned into a conversation with the audience, I started getting really, really uncomfortable. Not because I didn't agree with Priest's right to talk, or that I wouldn't otherwise enjoy a thoughtful dialog on the false dichotomy of diplomacy vs. war, but -- why here? Why now?

    I had no idea some nineteen year old kid out to impress his girlfriend had just seemingly threatened the lives of thousands of feds at a conference filled with thousands of feds. I had no clue that Priest, and the entire rest of the Defcon press squad, was in the midst of a hectic but ultimately stunningly successful session of damage control. And I don't think the AV guys knew either -- thus the mike getting cut off a couple times. Certainly, Priest is the man to give the benefit of the doubt -- but at the point where he had ranted for five minutes, and was asking for another five, I...wasn't happy.

    A couple people have given Defcon a bit of heat for "censoring" this guy. Look. The DC staff probably saved this kid from having a serious criminal record for the rest of his life, and managing his safety despite temporary stupidity -- even at the expense of a bit of my talk -- is sort of the whole point of the Goons. Their diligence is why we still have a con to party, learn, and hack at after twelve years of running something "underground" enough for Spot The Fed to be an official event.

    Anyway, this has gone on longer than planned. Just remember that if you see weird things like this happening -- you're at Defcon, it's weird that anything's happening at all :-)

    --Dan

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    • #47
      can anyone confirm/deny a rumor about the video feed going black during this speaker's time slot? i was watching in my room at the moment and didn't get to see the end of the lecture but i assumed it was my room TV flaking out again. when i spoke to some other people, the same thing was reported.

      p.s. - thanks go to priest, who was willing to dispell some rumors and explain to me what had happened when i asked him about it poolside, eventhough he had no obligation to take the time to do so and likely had enough on his plate at the time. this is an example of one factor which makes me love the community and the scene so much... if something fucks up or goes awry, it's just sort of acknowledged that the public gets a lucid and clear explanation.

      (i guess that stems from our industry, tho... if marketing produces product catalogues that have page 33 upside down, the spokesdroids won't offer much explanation... but imagine a mail server being offline for three hours and a sysadmin not issuing a full report as to why it happened and what steps were taken to fix it.)
      "I'll admit I had an OiNK account and frequented it quite often… What made OiNK a great place was that it was like the world's greatest record store… iTunes kind of feels like Sam Goody to me. I don't feel cool when I go there. I'm tired of seeing John Mayer's face pop up. I feel like I'm being hustled when I visit there, and I don't think their product is that great. DRM, low bit rate, etc... OiNK it existed because it filled a void of what people want."
      - Trent Reznor

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      • #48
        For the thick...

        Freedom of speech is expressing your views, not yelling FIRE in a crowded movie theater.

        Freedom of speech is pblically saying that "Bush is an idiot" not "$5000 to the first guy to put a bullet through his head".

        Freedom of speech is our ability to have this forum in it's entirety without risk or threat of incarceration or death. Tyrrany is my having to go into hide, change my name or flee the country for making this post.


        We have politics constantly at Defcon. The entire scene is in itself, quite political. We constantly discuss the morality, the ethics, the legalities of what we do, and what we're interested in, be in Penetration testing to Ethical *cringe* hacking. This is a far cry from standing on a stage calling for violence, killing and being a basic asshat.

        Anarchism is all fine and well for 15yo males in full swing of puberty hormones. Then you mature and realize how utterly stupid the whole idea is. The simple truth is, Anarchy can't exist without something for it to oppose. A true anarchist society is a "might makes right" system, which immediatly will collapse into tyranny in about 5 seconds. Just take a look at Somallia. There's Anarchy for you.

        Ok. I'm done ranting.

        --S
        --Shatter

        "People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
        - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

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        • #49
          ""People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
          - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)


          You have to love Kierkegaard!.. I'm reading "For Self Examination" now.. but I really love your quote!
          In the 60's, people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird and people take Prozac to make it normal.

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          • #50
            Not Really Dude

            Originally posted by Shatter
            For the thick...

            Freedom of speech is expressing your views, not yelling FIRE in a crowded movie theater.

            Freedom of speech is pblically saying that "Bush is an idiot" not "$5000 to the first guy to put a bullet through his head".

            Freedom of speech is our ability to have this forum in it's entirety without risk or threat of incarceration or death. Tyrrany is my having to go into hide, change my name or flee the country for making this post.


            We have politics constantly at Defcon. The entire scene is in itself, quite political. We constantly discuss the morality, the ethics, the legalities of what we do, and what we're interested in, be in Penetration testing to Ethical *cringe* hacking. This is a far cry from standing on a stage calling for violence, killing and being a basic asshat.

            Anarchism is all fine and well for 15yo males in full swing of puberty hormones. Then you mature and realize how utterly stupid the whole idea is. The simple truth is, Anarchy can't exist without something for it to oppose. A true anarchist society is a "might makes right" system, which immediatly will collapse into tyranny in about 5 seconds. Just take a look at Somallia. There's Anarchy for you.

            Ok. I'm done ranting.

            --S
            I'm 30. I believe that mentioning Somalia here and equating it with anarchy shows your lack of understanding. That shithole is a military junta, the youth are brainwashed by the local madrasa. That is all there is for the poor to get anything approaching a "education".
            What makes me sicker is wasting 18 good men on a guy who should have caught a .50 cal in the brainpan on a hot dark night. He was not even there, hows that for anarchy! On the other view, if they were "anarchist", remember, our boys left with thier tails between their legs, rolling out with U.N. armor, after WAY to long. BAD, BAD plan.
            I believe you are right about "Might makes Right" government, LOOK around, what do you see? Is this "process for growth" good? Go ahead, keep building your families on diesel fed beef and nuclear power. (I'm not a vegetarian so don't even go there.) If we are attracting "Puberty and Hormones" that should worry you then, recall what we put on the beach in Normandy.
            And finally for "utterly stupid", yes I believe, oh, about 85% of the human population. No, No, they would not survive a pure anarchist society. FOR SURE.


            I am not ranting, hit the books, realize who your friends are. I am an anarchist and I love you all, probally way too much for my own good.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by daed
              What makes me sicker is wasting 18 good men on a guy who should have caught a .50 cal in the brainpan on a hot dark night. He was not even there, hows that for anarchy! On the other view, if they were "anarchist", remember, our boys left with thier tails between their legs, rolling out with U.N. armor, after WAY to long. BAD, BAD plan.
              Hmm.... depending on what statistics you use, we had a 100-200 to 1 kill ratio. Pretty good for running away with our "tails between our legs" (in your words).
              Last edited by not5150; August 6, 2004, 23:26.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by not5150
                Hmm.... depending on what statistics you use, we had a 100-200 to 1 kill ratio. Pretty good for running away with our "tails between our legs" (in your words).
                Ok. Ok. Wrong words, I stick by our military, but hey that was "on the other hand". Those guys did stick it out and they did what they were told. I hope they feel as good about wasting all those people as you do, ours and theirs, with the mission still standing incomplete. I'm pretty hardcore anyhow, the UN can bite me. If I had control of that I would have rolled armor on it for a month or turned the place into glass after that first assault. See we both have the same sickness in a wierd way. I'm going to go watch the "Wall" now, and try to figure out what went wrong, heh.
                Umm I think we need a new thread... So at least we know the difference between whats in my head and "on the other hand"

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by daed
                  Umm I think we need a new thread... So at least we know the difference between whats in my head and "on the other hand"
                  I'm gonna hazard a guess that the head is full of something brown, steamy, and rich in carrots & peanuts.

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