April 5, 2006 LPCON Update

[Deviant Ollam]

what about my offer?

ah, i had not seen your mention of construction work in your edited post. any help we can get from people would definitely be appreciated. my thoughts were something simple. i'll make up some diagrams and post them here when i can.

[renderman]

Sure would be cool to have a lockpicking village. Any chance the gang from LockSport International could find some space in there? We'd like to promote Lock sports and especially starting clubs, etc.


Edit: Btw, I formally apologize for the difficulty of the locks last year.

I think that we are all going to be promoting everything. Official capacity or not, it just happens.

[haden]

well thats fine but i need the specs of the contest locksettings also befor i decide on a design for the tabels but i have a good idea on how i can do it and do it very cheaply *wink wink nudge nudge*

[Deviant Ollam]

so, here is my idea with respect to this "obstacle course / prize wall" type activity...

this could be constructed very quickly and cheaply. allow me to explain further. the overall "wall" is a 4 x 8 plywood sheet. using a jig or handsaw of some sort, 6 inch x 6 inch "doors" are cut into the sheet at regular intervals. while the number shown in the picture could make for pretty crowded picking conditions, eight total could certainly fit. some hinges and hasps are setup, and before you know it... you have a practice area. now, this is very similar to the DC719 obstacle course / practice wall... which could, in fact, be used if people don't want to construct something totally new (lil_freak had mentioned that it's safely in storage somewhere)

as for the whole "prizes behind the locked doors" idea, i kept trying to think of way to cheaply and easily make "lockers"... everything i thought of was either too complicated or too bulky and heavy for shipping/setup/etc. (thought of using milk crates, ammo cans, etc) really, if we just were to get eight metal or hard plastic mixing bowls from a kitchen supply store and screw them directly into the wood, that would suffice for now in terms of making "lockers" that can't easily be broken open from the rear. (i mean, someone would be able to dissasemble the whole thing, but not without attracting a lot of attention)

this way, by the use of bowls, you can "stack" them all together for shipping, storage, etc. it's not the MOST elegant solution in the world, but would certainly knock together very quickly and cheaply for this summer. we could use the old hardware or make a new setup as diagramed above. (could also rip the 4x8 vertically and make a pair of locker boards that go side-by-side, giving more room to participants.)

refinements or better ideas are, of course, welcome.

[renderman]

so, here is my idea with respect to this "obstacle course / prize wall" type activity...

this could be constructed very quickly and cheaply. allow me to explain further. the overall "wall" is a 4 x 8 plywood sheet. using a jig or handsaw of some sort, 6 inch x 6 inch "doors" are cut into the sheet at regular intervals. while the number shown in the picture could make for pretty crowded picking conditions, eight total could certainly fit. some hinges and hasps are setup, and before you know it... you have a practice area. now, this is very similar to the DC719 obstacle course / practice wall... which could, in fact, be used if people don't want to construct something totally new (lil_freak had mentioned that it's safely in storage somewhere)

as for the whole "prizes behind the locked doors" idea, i kept trying to think of way to cheaply and easily make "lockers"... everything i thought of was either too complicated or too bulky and heavy for shipping/setup/etc. (thought of using milk crates, ammo cans, etc) really, if we just were to get eight metal or hard plastic mixing bowls from a kitchen supply store and screw them directly into the wood, that would suffice for now in terms of making "lockers" that can't easily be broken open from the rear. (i mean, someone would be able to dissasemble the whole thing, but not without attracting a lot of attention)

this way, by the use of bowls, you can "stack" them all together for shipping, storage, etc. it's not the MOST elegant solution in the world, but would certainly knock together very quickly and cheaply for this summer. we could use the old hardware or make a new setup as diagramed above. (could also rip the 4x8 vertically and make a pair of locker boards that go side-by-side, giving more room to participants.)

refinements or better ideas are, of course, welcome.

Hell you could buy most of that onsite and just build it there. Clear plastic bowls would allow people to see the prize before they pick.

The only thing would be that you'd have stability issues when multiple people are picking. Also, it's a fair bit of work installing deadbolts and knobs since you would'nt have the thickness of a door available for mounting them.

[Deviant Ollam]

Hell you could buy most of that onsite and just build it there.

yeah, i thought of that. although i tend to be one who likes being as prepared as possible ahead of time. once in vegas, things tend to go awry very quickly when time and alcohol put pressure on schedules.

Clear plastic bowls would allow people to see the prize before they pick.

i thought of that, too... however, i might shy away from that since (a) i wouldn't want to encourage people to be behind the aparatus (although it would make "restocking" the prize wall easier since organizers could see when things are empty) and also (b) part of the fun is the surprise behind the closed door. hehe.

The only thing would be that you'd have stability issues when multiple people are picking.

yeah, i worry about that, too. we could take a cue from the DC719 setup (which was large and square, i think) and split the sheets vertically (from the perspective of these diagrams) adding hinges to them so that they fold slightly in the middle. with an extra leg ultimately making the whole setup a triangle shape, that could be pretty stable.

Also, it's a fair bit of work installing deadbolts and knobs since you would'nt have the thickness of a door available for mounting them.

is the DC719 board regulation door thickness? i seem to recall deadbolts and doorknobs on theirs.

[renderman]

is the DC719 board regulation door thickness? i seem to recall deadbolts and doorknobs on theirs.

On the practice boards there was, but the obstacle course was not.

I was just mentioning it because you indicated in your design, using a sheet of plywood, which is way too thin for mounting a deadbolt. Might want to consider just pillaging and mangling an old door.

[haden]

i was thinking some thing more like this with thick door material as the top so we can use standard locks and deadbolts and other lock types(sorry bout the quality of it)

simply a milk crate divided in 2 with a section of a door or similar material bolted to the crate. would be sturdy and can be stacked on a second one to rase the hight to a good level for picking while sitting for the starters who will take more time per lock considering that standing would be strenuouse to say the least

[Doc-LPCON]

jnekrep@locksport.com - I'm sure that he'd give permission.

I don't think that a talk before each round of comp makes much sense. Pushing the fact that we'll be up in the skybox if they are interested does make sense.

I have sent him an email

So it will or won't fit in a skybox?

DT, in discussions with Russ, the concern about the skybox for the timed competition was the crowd. i.e. the skybox would be too small to handle people wishing to observe the competition. Russ mentioned that the actual timed competition would likely need to be in contest area, were there should be more space.

The desire for the Skybox is to have a place where people can go and listen to talks on lockpicking, play with some locks, get more info etc. We are trying to arrange for some video too. Ideally a skybox could be dedicated to just Lockpicking so that it can remain open throughout the day and locked up at night.

Sure would be cool to have a lockpicking village. Any chance the gang from LockSport International could find some space in there? We'd like to promote Lock sports and especially starting clubs, etc.


Edit: Btw, I formally apologize for the difficulty of the locks last year.

Varjeal, we appreciate the work you did last year. I have all the old locks from last year, can you assist in getting them so they are a little less difficult but still quality?

You guys are awesome. I agree that any serious construction work needs to be completed before getting to Defcon. Two reasons, 1. Too much going on at the show (yes including alcohol) and 2. We need to make sure we can get it back somewhere, stored, and usable for future as well.

I have sent him an email

Renderman I got a failure

<jnekrep@locksport.com>:
Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. vpopmail (#5.1.1)

Any alternates?

[astcell]

What do the locks on the skybox doors look like? How about the first person to pick a skybox lock gets the skybox for all of Defcon.

[Kai]

Deviant (in regards too design prize wall design)...

The obstacle course was plywood, and while the locks were not really meant to open anything (just be in a locked or unlocked state), it was one hell of bitch getting locks door locks mounted to the thing. Other locks (pad, bicycle, jewelry, wafer, etc.) were quite easy with the use of eyehook bolts, but obviously that is not what is wanted.

Also, keeping a piece of plywood that large stable would be very difficult, you would get a lot of wobbling and bowing in the middle. With the octagonal design from Doc the last 2 years, there was a great amount of support on each side and top/bottom center. At the same time, that meant "circling" the boards to watch and time, rather than being able to stand in one place (less people needed to help).

Also, using one piece, I don't know if there would be enough room between the top/bottom pickers.

I'd recommend actually just buying a solid wood door, and splitting length-wise. This will give plenty of stability (solid doors are pretty sturdy), and by cutting in half would be easier to carry and you could get at least 5 (maybe 6) stations per piece. Place them both on the legs like you have, and stagger front to back (please forgive the crappy graphics)...

X = locked door facing front
0 = locked door facing back

|--------------|
|| X 0 X 0 X 0 ||
|--------------|
|| 0 X 0 X 0 X ||
|--------------|


As far as the backing, you can get 5 sided tin electrical boxes from Home Depot about 6"x8". Just some thoughts. These can also be stacked for travel, but are pretty cheap and already pre-drilled for mounting. They also have plastic ones, but metal would be lighter and more compact.

[TheCotMan]

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|| 0 X 0 X 0 X ||
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If you wish to play in the world of ASCII-Art, there are two forum markup items that may help you. One is "code" and the other (added) is "tt". Both of these request the browser to use fixed-width fonts for display purposes. This would make your above picture look like this instead:

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|| X 0 X 0 X 0 ||
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|| 0 X 0 X 0 X ||
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[haden]

what does no one like my simple and very cheap idea?

[Deviant Ollam]

what does no one like my simple and very cheap idea?

heh, well... some of us may have thought that it had to do with dropping index cards on a mini-golf course based on your diagram.

but more seriously, yes... it is a good concept in that it allows for usage of full size door aparatus (like deabolts and knobs) but there is very very little means by which it could break down and store simply. the benefit of the milk crates is that they self-stack rather well (perhaps a few zip ties at the corners where they meet and you've got yourself a nice, sturdy tower) but they do not pack very well.

if you want to knock a few of these together and bring them, that's cool... we'd love to have plenty of options for people to play in the village. those of us who are travelling from way out east (and will possibly be setting up a small version of our idea at HOPE, then breaking it down and shipping it out to vegas) are considering ideas that are slimmer and fold completely flat.

[Varjeal]

Doc-LPCON: Sure can. I think I'll see if I can scrounge up enough used cylinders to do a quick swap. I think one of the primary factors with those locks was just the fact that they were new and "tight".

Remind me know how many knobs/deadbolts/padlock cylinders there were and I'll get a batch ready.