View Full Version : Ham radio exam session?
Do y'all think there'd be interest in a ham radio license exam session at the con? I'm a licensed VE, and I'm sure I could find two other VEs to administer the exams. We'd need a quiet room for a couple of hours one day.
The only potential pitfall is that examinees need to trust the examiners with a not-insignificant amount of personal information...
Thoughts?
-Jon
converge
06-03-2008, 08:32 PM
I would, particularly in a cram/learning session to get folks up to speed before said offerings. .. I have not quite enough knowledge spanned across the some 5 -7 years I've owned and (somewhat) operated my yaesu.. it'd be nice to finish the gaps to at least tech and make it official
Some more info on ham licensing...
To get the entry-level Technician class license, all you have to do is correctly answer 26 out of 35 multiple choice questions. The entire question pool is published and freely available, and passing is pretty much a given if you spend a minimal amount of time studying.
If you have a General or higher license, you can become a volunteer examiner (VE) free of charge by filling out an "open book exam" form:
http://www.arrl.org/arrlvec/become-a-ve.html
This lets you participate in administering any exam below your class level.
-Jon
TheCotMan
06-03-2008, 10:27 PM
Would this mesh well as a presentation in the Wireless Village? Would there be enough space for it?
Huh, I've been thinking about upgrading my license. Sounds like a good excuse to do so.
I'll be spending most of my time hosting the HHV, but I'm sure I could sneak next door for some study sessions/presentations in the Wireless Village if those went down. As for a quiet room, I think we could probably find a room, but it might be during very off hours. If there is enough interest I'll start probing those in power to see if we can line up some space. If there is NOT enough interest for us to snag a room in the conference area, perhaps someone with a larger hotel room could let a half dozen people invade their space for an hour or two.
We just had an exam study session here at UAT. And tonight we tried to pull down images (WX) from satellites...
I think an exam session at CON would be pretty cool-
1057
Thorn
06-04-2008, 06:34 AM
I'm pretty sure we could do it at the Wireless Village, although a quite room for the actual exam may bee better.
I've had my Tech (No Code) for ten years, and just renewed. (BTW, it was pretty painless with the FCC's new on-line system.) Now that the code requirements have been dropped, what's the next license level? What would I need to study?
Grifter
06-04-2008, 08:13 AM
There are still several Skyboxes available Sunday, all day. Say the word JonM and one is yours.
So, it doesn't have nearly the cool factor that doing it at the con does, but it appears that there is a regular test session Saturday afternoon:
9-Aug-2008
Sponsor: LAS VEGAS NV VE TEAM
Time: 12:30PM (Walk-ins allowed)
Contact: TIMOTHY A HUNT
(702)872-5268
Email: TEST2008@LVHAMTEST.COM
VEC: ARRL/VEC
Location: ALL SAINTS EPISCOPAL CHURCH
4201 W WASHINGTON AVE
PARISH HALL
WWW.LVHAMTEST.COM
LAS VEGAS, NV 89107
It's about 6.5 miles from the Riviera, so it's not infeasible to duck out of the con for a couple of hours...
-Jon
Deviant Ollam
06-04-2008, 10:21 AM
it's not infeasible to duck out of the con for a couple of hoursi am likely not going to be taking the test, etc. (as much as i'd love to be more into amateur radio goodness) so take my comments with a grain of salt since they may not represent your key participants' opinions...
but by my way of thinking, trying to do anything off-site is a kiss of death for an event. the ToxicBBQ is basically the only thing that's happened off-site year after year and has been sustained and popular.
there used to be the DefCon Shoot, but that died (and is hopefully coming back now, at least in a small form) and the WiFi shootout (which was even smaller than the weapons fest) but it really boils down to the fact that it's hot outside, people have no cars, etc.
also (maybe the most key reason of all) is that there is just so damn much happening at DefCon... lots of people (myself included) are pained by the notion of just try to get to and from the hotel for an off-site event, given the travel time involved.
just my $0.02, maybe other folks will like the idea of a quiet, private testing center better.
Station
06-04-2008, 01:53 PM
Do y'all think there'd be interest in a ham radio license exam session at the con? I'm a licensed VE, and I'm sure I could find two other VEs to administer the exams. We'd need a quiet room for a couple of hours one day.
The only potential pitfall is that examinees need to trust the examiners with a not-insignificant amount of personal information...
Thoughts?
-Jon
I'd love to take General and Extra class upgrades from my no-code tech license, circa 1991.. I got 8 hours on a plane ride to cram. (without snakes)
73 de N1JNV
Alright, I've got one Extra interested in helping out (thanks theprez98). We need one more amateur Extra to be able to give the exams. Anyone?
-Jon
TheCotMan
06-04-2008, 04:56 PM
JonM and thepres98:
want me to move this to the Wireless Village discussion forum?
I can leave a redirect (symlink) that auto-expires after 3 weeks.
(Talked to thepres98 elsewhere, and okayed move to the Wireless village. Redir will exist in the old location for 3 weeks so people can find it.)
converge
06-05-2008, 09:14 AM
I really wanted this as part of the WV sessions last year (emphasizing the range of radio outside of 802.11), but we couldn't find folks interested in pulling it together ... watching it take form this year is considerably awesome.
DCFluX
06-05-2008, 04:24 PM
I'm an Extra, but I do not have my VE credentials, yet.
I'm an Extra, but I do not have my VE credentials, yet.
Cool. Send in the ARRL VE paperwork, and you should be good to go. Between you, theprez98 and myself, we've got enough people to run the exams. Send me a privmsg with your call, and I'll file the paperwork to get the exam setup.
-Jon
Sweet, we've got the three people we need to run the tests.
What time should we run the tests? Noon?
How many exam copies should I request? I was thinking 20 tech, 10 general, and 5 extra.
-Jon
DCFluX
06-06-2008, 09:42 AM
I will be giving a talk, so pretty much I can't say until it is scheduled.
theprez98
06-06-2008, 10:00 AM
I will be giving a talk, so pretty much I can't say until it is scheduled.
I have (2) CFPs pending (although space is running out fast!) so I may be speaking as well.
Printing out the VE application...it'll probably take me the weekend to get the "open book" quiz filled out. ;)
Hah, yeah, I think we're all in the same boat as far as giving talks. I'll ping Nikita to see how likely it is that I'll be talking Sunday...
-Jon
DaKahuna
06-06-2008, 09:40 PM
If you have a General or higher license, you can become a volunteer examiner (VE) free of charge by filling out an "open book exam" form:
Let me know if you think you will need an extra VE and I'll do the paperwork and become a VE.
Let me know if you think you will need an extra VE and I'll do the paperwork and become a VE.
More VEs can't hurt, so go ahead and send in the paperwork...
-Jon
DaKahuna
06-07-2008, 02:34 PM
I will keep you updated.
I just passed my technician today! So I am licensed. Really sweet :D.
http://eham.net/exams/
eHam has practice exams up for those of you looking to study. I personally need to study for my general, and I may take it at DefCon if it is going to be offered. Not entirely sure if I need it or not ...
theprez98
06-09-2008, 11:21 AM
For VE-wannabes:
www.kparc.org/ARRLVEAccreditation.pdf
From 2006, so a little dated, but will help with the open book review.
theprez98
06-09-2008, 11:22 AM
I just passed my technician today! So I am licensed. Really sweet :D.
http://eham.net/exams/
eHam has practice exams up for those of you looking to study. I personally need to study for my general, and I may take it at DefCon if it is going to be offered. Not entirely sure if I need it or not ...
We're working toward offering an exam session at Defcon. It looks like we'll have the personnel, but a quiet location to administer the exams might be more challenging. :wink:
TheCotMan
06-09-2008, 11:52 AM
We're working toward offering an exam session at Defcon. It looks like we'll have the personnel, but a quiet location to administer the exams might be more challenging. :wink:
If we still have it, there was that one corner room that was too far for network access, but far enough away from the other con venues that it might be quieter than other choices. It was discussed for Defcon 15 as a quiet space. Assuming nothing better is found, where quite space is the primary concern, and 101/102 are both still available for us/you, you might ask about these rooms for your exam, while the review and discussion could be centered in the wireless village.
NOTE: the below is not this year's floor plan, it is from last year, Defcon 15:
http://www.defcon.org/images/defcon-15/dc-15-friday-floorplan.jpg
(See room 101 and 102, locate middle, left hand side)
NOTE: the above is not this year's floor plan, it is from last year, Defcon 15.
DCFluX
06-09-2008, 09:44 PM
Not entirely sure if I need it or not ...
If you are serious about doing any kind of HF work, yes.
Otherwise your HF privelages will be CW only on 80m, 40m and 15m. As well as Data and USB Voice in the lower section of 10m.
The bigger challenge is upgrading from General to Extra. You get an additional 400 kHz of bandwidth and Extra class VEs can give all of the tests. But some do not think the juice is worth the squeze. Others do it to get it out of the way.
How long of a test session are you thinking? I'd consider trying for the Tech -> Extra double header if there was enough time. (Or have things changed to not allow upgrading twice in one session?)
Ok, here's where things stand:
We have four people who can be VEs. This is good, as we need a minimum of three.
Unfortunately, three of us are speakers at the con, and we're waiting to hear for sure when we're speaking.
Tentatively, I'm going to say testing will start at noon on Sunday, and will continue for roughly two hours, potentially longer if there is sufficient interest.
For test takers, these are the logisitics:
The cost is $14
For your $14, you can take any or all of the exam elements once
If you fail a test, you can retest by paying an additional $14
You must present a government-issued photo ID
You are encouraged to register with the FCC Universal License Service (http://wireless.fcc.gov/uls/index.htm), and have your Federal Registration Number (FRN) with you. Otherwise, you will be required to provide your SSN
If you are upgrading, you will need an original copy of your license
We will provide writing implements, but you are encouraged to bring your own
You may bring a calculator, but you must be able to demonstrate that it's memory is clear
Yes, presenting this much personal information at a hacker con is somewhat risky, but we'll ensure that your information is safeguarded: the testing will be held behind closed doors, and since you will have our calls, you'll get a reciprocal amount of information about us. :)
-Jon
Ok, here's where things stand:
Tentatively, I'm going to say testing will start at noon on Sunday, and will continue for roughly two hours, potentially longer if there is sufficient interest.
Ok, the speaker schedule's been posted. I'm talking Sunday morning, which should be fine for a noon test time.
How are the rest of you who said you could VE set for time?
-Jon
DaKahuna
06-29-2008, 05:25 PM
My extra class VE paperwork arrived today. Don't know my schedule yet.
I think I was just a standby in any case.
DCFluX
06-29-2008, 07:55 PM
Looks good for me and my credentials finnaly arrived.
theprez98
06-29-2008, 09:56 PM
Still waiting on mine--its been 3-4 weeks. I will have to try calling them tomorrow.
So what's the difference between Ham & FCC license. It's been quite a long time for me. Missed my FCC license by like 2 or 3 questions I was sooooo pissed.
xor
theprez98
06-30-2008, 07:28 PM
So what's the difference between Ham & FCC license. It's been quite a long time for me. Missed my FCC license by like 2 or 3 questions I was sooooo pissed.
xor
No difference, the FCC issues amateur radio licenses. The testing is run by the ARRL.
Thorn
06-30-2008, 08:16 PM
So what's the difference between Ham & FCC license. It's been quite a long time for me. Missed my FCC license by like 2 or 3 questions I was sooooo pissed.
xorAre you refering to the the "Radiotelephone" Licenses? Class 1 to 3, if I recall correctly...
No difference, the FCC issues amateur radio licenses. The testing is run by the ARRL.There's a lot of crossover, but there are differences between the Amateur and the Radiotelephone licenses.
So what's the difference between Ham & FCC license. It's been quite a long time for me. Missed my FCC license by like 2 or 3 questions I was sooooo pissed.
xor
Ham is just a slang term for an amateur radio operator, who is licensed by the FCC.
-Jon
theprez98
07-01-2008, 04:46 AM
Are you refering to the the "Radiotelephone" Licenses? Class 1 to 3, if I recall correctly...
There's a lot of crossover, but there are differences between the Amateur and the Radiotelephone licenses.
Well yeah, it depends which licenses he's talking about.
theprez98
07-01-2008, 12:31 PM
Based on my better half's description of today's delivered mail, it appears my VE paperwork will have arrived, finally.
Alright, I sent in the paperwork yesterday, and got a confirmation. We're all set to go!
-Jon
theprez98
07-02-2008, 12:13 PM
Based on my better half's description of today's delivered mail, it appears my VE paperwork will have arrived, finally.
Alright, I sent in the paperwork yesterday, and got a confirmation. We're all set to go!
-Jon
Indeed, the mail I was expecting was there. I got my official certificate (and badge!) so I'm good to go.
seramai
07-13-2008, 07:47 PM
What does each level of passed exam get me "john law" wise regarding the HAM tests?
For example, if I pass the first exam, I can then legally war drive, hack wifi, spoof packets, legally jam (raspberry) law enforcment signals?
What higer level in the law do I get with each passed exam?
If you really want to take the exams, just go to
http://www.eham.net/exams/
and take the exams over and over until you score 90% and above. These are real test questions, and if you pass them consistently you will pass the exams. This way you won't have to burn CON time studying. (The above link is free, btw.)
LosT
LosT and I studied in the car on the way to the exam location after having slept for 5 hours, and we passed ...
What does each level of passed exam get me "john law" wise regarding the HAM tests?
For example, if I pass the first exam, I can then legally war drive, hack wifi, spoof packets, legally jam (raspberry) law enforcment signals?
What higer level in the law do I get with each passed exam?
Yes, yes, no, no.
Basically, you get the ability to use the amateur radio frequencies. Passing the Technician exam, which is the entry level license, gives you full access to all of the amateur bands above 50 MHz. This gives you the ability to transmit with up to 1500 watts of power, at largely unlimited frequencies.
The higher levels of license give you access to the lower frequency bands, which have far longer range.
There are some restrictions on amateur radio operation, principally being that you must identify yourself, you can't broadcast, and you can't use encryption, or any other secret codes.
So, if you're looking to experiment with radio, amateur radio's good. If you're looking to fuck with people, it's not going to get you anything you aren't already prohibited from doing.
-Jon
theprez98
07-14-2008, 05:03 AM
What does each level of passed exam get me "john law" wise regarding the HAM tests?
For example, if I pass the first exam, I can then legally war drive, hack wifi, spoof packets, legally jam (raspberry) law enforcment signals?
What higer level in the law do I get with each passed exam?
Amateur radio privileges have nothing to do with wardriving (which is already legal without a license) or wifi. I'm pretty sure jamming law enforcement frequencies would be illegal just about everywhere (and beyond that, is just plain stupidand reckless). If you're in the US, here (http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/bandplan.html) is the amateur radio bandplan. This (http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/allocate.html) page will show you privileges by class; here (http://www.arrl.org/FandES/field/regulations/Hambands_color.pdf) is a nice PDF of the same thing.
As has already been alluded to in previous posts, all of the test questions are drawn from publicly available question banks; therefore passing the test is not too difficult if you practice enough with those questions.
So, if you're looking to experiment with radio, amateur radio's good. If you're looking to fuck with people, it's not going to get you anything you aren't already prohibited from doing.
And if I could add to that, the FCC does not have much of a sense of humor when people go abusing privileges.
seramai
07-15-2008, 04:21 PM
Yes, yes, no, no.
Basically, you get the ability to use the amateur radio frequencies. Passing the Technician exam, which is the entry level license, gives you full access to all of the amateur bands above 50 MHz. This gives you the ability to transmit with up to 1500 watts of power, at largely unlimited frequencies.
The higher levels of license give you access to the lower frequency bands, which have far longer range.
There are some restrictions on amateur radio operation, principally being that you must identify yourself, you can't broadcast, and you can't use encryption, or any other secret codes.
So, if you're looking to experiment with radio, amateur radio's good. If you're looking to fuck with people, it's not going to get you anything you aren't already prohibited from doing.
-Jon
Not interested in fucking. Want to learn and do without fear.
Deviant Ollam
07-15-2008, 04:26 PM
Not interested in fucking.heh, that would be a first for most people at DEFCON. of course, while 90% of them may be interested in fucking, a far smaller percentage of people actually succeed in getting lucky at con.
still... as a whole our community puts up some mighty respectable numbers. when's the last time that DEFCON sex chart (http://attrition.org/hosted/sexchart/sexchart.9.42) was updated?
Thorn
07-15-2008, 04:29 PM
For example, if I pass the first exam, I can then ... legally jam (raspberry) law enforcment signals?
The FCC takes a dim view of that. The will gladly assist law enforcement in tracking down someone intentionally jamming licensed law enforcement freqs. Cops take an even dimmer view. The may not have the FCC's equipment, but they have nightsticks.
Not that I'd know anything about that...
seramai
07-15-2008, 08:10 PM
heh, that would be a first for most people at DEFCON. of course, while 90% of them may be interested in fucking, a far smaller percentage of people actually succeed in getting lucky at con.
still... as a whole our community puts up some mighty respectable numbers. when's the last time that DEFCON sex chart (http://attrition.org/hosted/sexchart/sexchart.9.42) was updated?
Only luck for me has been at the poker table.
seramai
07-15-2008, 08:13 PM
/Hambands_color.pdf"]here[/URL] is a nice PDF of the same thing.
Any of these Amateur Bands be playing at the Black and White Ball? Ha!
Just kidding......
seramai
07-15-2008, 08:16 PM
Amateur radio privileges have nothing to do with wardriving (which is already legal without a license) or wifi. I'm pretty sure jamming law enforcement frequencies would be illegal just about everywhere (and beyond that, is just plain stupid and reckless).
And if I could add to that, the FCC does not have much of a sense of humor when people go abusing privileges.
I am aware of all that. I'm just running my mouth to get a response which gives me a frame work from which to operate.
DotNM
07-15-2008, 09:33 PM
Just out of curiosity, do you have to be a citizen of the United States to do this? I'm Canadian but I'd be interested in trying it...
Just out of curiosity, do you have to be a citizen of the United States to do this? I'm Canadian but I'd be interested in trying it...
That is a very good question. I know that the USA and Canada have reciprocal agreements* allowing hams from the two countries to operate as the locals can. Getting an FCC license as a non-citizen (non-resident alien, etc.) might be doable, but I would imagine that you would be better off then going through Industry Canada to get a Canadian license and callsign.
Anyone have a definitive answer on this one?
*http://www.rac.ca/regulatory/rcip.htm
47 C.F.R. § 97.23
Each license grant must show the grantee's correct name and mailing
address. The mailing address must be in an area where the amateur
service is regulated by the FCC and where the grantee can receive mail
delivery by the United States Postal Service. Revocation of the station license or
suspension of the operator license may result when correspondence from
the FCC is returned as undeliverable because the grantee failed to
provide the correct mailing address.
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2007/octqtr/47cfr97.23.htm
I couldn't find anything about having to be a citizen of the USA. But unless you have a valid US mailing address, you are still out of luck.
theprez98
07-16-2008, 05:11 AM
The US and Canada do have a reciprocal operating agreement. I'm still checking on the testing requirements, although there do seem to be specific provisions for "foreign" examinees.